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 Silverwolf
sandtrout
Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 1,108
Loc: Darkover
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
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 Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos"  [Re: Silverwolf]
#3339329 - 11/09/04 10:00 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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I saw mention on another thread (sutra!) of the possibility of smoking the amanitas. It is no "possibility" infact if Don Juan had been indigenous to an area where working with the amanitas was vernacular ( as vernacular as, say, it's astrology) he almost certainly would have smoked them (can anyone remember the book in which Carlos smokes the mushroom pipe for the first time? Its the same one in which he is first smeared with a Datura paste I believe). I also believe this may well be the safest way to introduce someone to the amanita experience. It is not necessary to ram huge cap loads down
oneself, the same of-course being true of the other fungi! I cut my dried caps (yeah I'm getting round to posting my drying methodology. Interestingly I found out that heat drying psilocybes reduces potency, however I doubt that this is true of our "solid citizens" the amanitas, any comments?) with a pair of medical scissors into thin strips and then cut the strips "across" again, very dry caps will then almost powder in your hand, I suppose you could try grinding them in a herb cutter too. Mix with a herbal smoking mixture and/or, possibly, "American Spirit" Tobacco. I've found that smoking them with liberty caps HHooowwlll! is fine but ingesting them together certainly is not! Watch out though its hot!
I guess the pantherina issue is simply thus "more out more in"..... 
N.B It may be best to reserve judgement on the smoking issue until I have some properly dried "early youngsters" to ignite.
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"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""
Edited by Silverwolf (10/10/06 01:31 PM)
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Wysefool
I AM SKELETON JELLY
Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 6,641
Last seen: 10 months, 16 days
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 Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" [Re: Silverwolf]
#3339769 - 11/10/04 12:49 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Smoking Amanitas right now....
I have this overpowering sense of... Absolutely nothing!
So what am I doing wrong?
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DMTelepath
Nut
Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 567
Loc: States of America
Last seen: 18 years, 1 month
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Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" [Re: Wysefool]
#3339787 - 11/10/04 12:56 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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The Castaneda book you were referring to is The Teachings of Don Juan: A Yacqui Way of Knowledge. I was just discussing the other day about how he smokes some sort of mushroom in his book. Ima have to give this whole thread a read soon! Do you have some sort of text with everything you write in it that i could view? If not, i'll just mosey on through the thread.
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Me, Myself, and GOD
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kadakuda
The Great"Green".......East
Registered: 05/21/04
Posts: 7,048
Loc: Asia
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
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Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" [Re: Wysefool]
#3339907 - 11/10/04 01:48 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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dunno, jsut smoke the caps. i get a mild slightly off weed type high. and my tongue burns. i get a head ache after and go on my way. sure you got muscarias?
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The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.
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Wysefool
I AM SKELETON JELLY
Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 6,641
Last seen: 10 months, 16 days
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Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" [Re: kadakuda]
#3339916 - 11/10/04 01:54 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ya I've gotten mild effects like yours, it's not really anything fun though - it's like I'm high but I'm not stoney, hallucinating, or any of that fun stuff. It just affects my train of thought in a very subtle way. And yes I'm positive they're muscarias.
I guess I was just expecting something more, I don't see this being worthwhile in any way unless it was an additive to marijuana or in another smoking blend.
Oh well I guess I'll never have my fun with amanitas, always get too nauseous and lose my stomach contents before I can get any real effects. At least I should be able to find someone in marketplace to take my remaining stock.
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kadakuda
The Great"Green".......East
Registered: 05/21/04
Posts: 7,048
Loc: Asia
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
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Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" [Re: Wysefool]
#3339951 - 11/10/04 02:17 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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ya its certainly not somthing to write home about. but felizhigh and aneg. both stated rather intense effects from smoking in todcasils amanita thread.
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The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.
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Silverwolf
sandtrout
Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 1,108
Loc: Darkover
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
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 Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" [Re: DMTelepath]
#3345548 - 11/11/04 04:53 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
DMTelepath said:
The Castaneda book you were referring to is The Teachings of Don Juan: A Yacqui Way of Knowledge. I was just discussing the other day about how he smokes some sort of mushroom in his book. Ima have to give this whole thread a read soon! Do you have some sort of text with everything you write in it that i could view? If not, i'll just mosey on through the thread.
Thanks for the reference its a long time since I read the tome, and yeah I'm afraid your gonnna just have to "mosey on through" as I'm not fluent in tech stuff.
Actually guys I don't much like smoking Amanitas on their own, mix them with some dried psilocybes and weed (or hash), they seem to compliment each other, but as I said don't bother ingesting them together. 
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"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""
Edited by Silverwolf (11/11/04 04:56 AM)
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neuro
Phytophiliac
Registered: 08/10/99
Posts: 6,633
Loc: Rigel 7
Last seen: 6 months, 23 days
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Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" [Re: DMTelepath]
#3349652 - 11/11/04 11:55 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Teachings of Duan Juan is the biggest piece of crap and is not accepted by anthropologists in the least.
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Silverwolf
sandtrout
Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 1,108
Loc: Darkover
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
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Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" [Re: neuro]
#3351426 - 11/12/04 12:15 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Reportedly when asked by a journalist "Does Don Juan really exist" Castenada replied "Does it Matter?" 
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"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""
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 mjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
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Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" [Re: neuro]
#3367618 - 11/16/04 04:42 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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I and most ethnologists an d anthropologist, as Neuro said above, also believe Castaneda lied in his teeth.
The alledged smoking mixture humilito does not exist. Don Juan was a Yaqui and no yagui used hallucinogenic mushrooms. They do not grow in NEw Mexico and Arizona where the yaqui Indians live and no yaqui iindian has even beenm known to use the sacred mushrooms. And no you cannot smoke the psilocine/psilocybine,. This is from Sasha Shulgin. Castaneda was also a man who never once collected a single plant or mushroom specimen for deposit at any herbarium for researchers, so that others could follw up on his research.
The mazatecs and other tribes of Oaxaca used the sacred mushrooms in central and eastern Mesico, hundreds of mile southeast of where Don Juan alledgedly lived and practived his so-called sorcery. He lived Not in Oaxaca but in New Mexico and/or Arizona where the Yaqui Indians lived.
Castaneda lied to all. His books are only works of fiction and are klisted as such in Books In Print which is the catalogue of all books published on the market. Many in the scinetific community believe Castaneda stole most of his shamanic words from those historic works of R. Gordon Wasson's Russia, Mushrooms and History.
Here is Castaneda's death notice. IT seems he also had two different birth certificates. Even his wife did not known of his death until several months after.
mj
XXXXXxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
This is for Silverwolf:
In a personal communication to me in 1988, Dr. Richard Evans Schultes of the Botanical Museum of Harvard University, and author of Hallucinogenic Plants and co-author with Albert Hofmann (discoverer of LSD and syntheziser of psilocine/psilocybine)as well as co-authors of Plants of the Gods and Botany and Chemistry of the Hallucinogens, said that "the beserker theory involving vikings use of Amanita muscaria has since been disproven."
XXXXXXXXxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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The Seattle Times
Friday 19 June 1998
'Don Juan' Author Castaneda has Died
by
Los Angeles - Carlos Castaneda, the self-proclaimed ?sorcerer? and best-selling author, apparently died two months ago in the same way he lived: quietly, secretly, mysteriously.
His tales of drug-induced mental adventures with a Yaqui Indian named Don Juan once fascinated the world. And though his 10 books continue to sell in 17 languages, he died wiothout public notice on April 27 at his home in Westwood.
The cause was liver cancer; he was believed to have been 72.
As befitting his mystical image, he seemingly vanished into thin air.
?He didn?t like attention,? said lawyer Deborah Drooz, a friend of Castaneda?s and the executor of his estate. ?He always made sure people did not take his picture or record his voice. He didn?t like the spotlight. Knowing that, I didn?t take it upon myself to issue a press release.?
No funeral was weld; no public service of any kind took place. The author was cremated at once and his ashes were spirited away to Mexico, according to the Culver City mortuary that handled his remains.
He left behind a will, to be probated in Los Angeles next month, and a death certificate fraught with dubious information. The few people who may benefit from his rich copyrights were told of his death, Drooz said, but none chose to alert the media.
Even those who counted Castaneda a good friend were unaware of his death and wouldn?t comment when told, choosing to honor his disdain for publicity, no matter what realm of reality he now inhabits.
Details of his birth are in dispute.
Carlos Cesar Arana Castaneda immigrated to the United States in 1951. He was born Christmas Day 1925 in Sao Paulo, Brazil, or Cajamarca, Peru, depending on which version of his autobiographical accounts can be believed. He was an inveterate and unrepentant liar about the statistical details of his life, from his birthplace to his birth date, and even his given name is in some doubt.
?Much of the Castaneda mystique is based on the fact that even his closest friends aren?t sure who he is,? wrote his ex-wife, Margaret Runyan Castaneda, in a 1997 memoir that Castaneda tried to suppress.
Whoever he was, whatever his background, Castaneda galvanized the world 30 years ago. AS an anthropology graduate student at UCLA, he wrote his master?s thesis about a remarkable journey he made to the Arizona-Mexico desert. Hoping to study the effects of certain medicinal plants, Castaneda said he stopped in an Arizona border town and there, in a Greyhound bus depot, met an old Yaqui Indian from Sonora, Mexico, named Juan matus, a ?brujo? -a sorcerer or shaman - who used powerful hallucinogens to initiate the student into a world with origins dating back more than 2,000 years.
Under Don Juan?s strenuous tutelage, which lasted several years, Castaneda experimented with peyote, jimson weed and dried mushrooms, undergoing moments of supreme ecstacy and stark panic, all in an effort to achieve varying ?states of nonordinary reality.? Wandering through the desert, with Don Juan as his psychological and pharmacological guide, Castaneda said he saw giant insects, learned to fly, grew a beak, became a crow and ultimately reached a plateau of higher consciousness, a hard-won wisdom that made him a ?man of knowledge? like Don Juan.
The Thesis, published in 1968 by the University of California Press, became and international bestseller, striking just the right note at the peak of the psychedelic 1960s. A strange alchemy of anthropology, allegory, parapsychology, ethnography, Buddhism and perhaps fiction, ?The Teachings of Don Juan: A Yaqui Way of Knowledge? made Don Juan a household name.
After his stunning debut, Castaneda followed with a string of best sellers, including ?A Separate Reality? and Journey to Ixtlan.? Soon, readers were flocking to Mexico, hoping to become apprentices at Don Juan?s feet.
The old Indian could not be found, which set off widespread speculation that Castaneda was the author of an elaborate, if ingenious hoax.
Such concerns have all but discredited Castaneda in Academia.
?At the moment, (his books) have no response in anthropology,? said Clifford Geertz, an influential anthropologist. But Castaneda?s penchant for lying and the disputed existence of Don Juan never dampened the enthusiasm of his admirers.
?It isn?t necessary to believe to get swept up in Castaneda?s otherworldly narrative,? wrote Joshua Gilder in the Saturday Review. ?Like myth, it works a strange and beautiful magic beyond the realm of belief . . . Sometimes, admittedly, one gets the impression of a con artist simply glorifying in the game. Even so, it is a con touched by genius.?
To the end, Castaneda stubbornly insisted that the events he described in his books were not only real but meticulously documented.
Even his death certificate is not free of misinformation. His occupation is listed as teacher, his employer the Beverly Hills School District. But School district records don?t show Castaneda teaching there.
Also, although he as said to have no family, the death certificate lists a niece, Talia Bey, who is president of Cleargreen, a company that organizes Castaneda?s seminars on ?Tensegrity,? a modern version of ancient shamanic practices, part yoga, part ergonomic exercises. Bey was unavailable for comment.
Further, the death certificate lists Castaneda as ?Nev. Married,? although he was married from 1960 to 1973 to Margaret Runyan Castaneda, of Charleston, West Virginia, who said Castaneda once lied in court, swearing he was the father of her infant son by another man, then helped her raise the boy.?
The son, now 36 and living in Suburban Atlanta, also claims to have a birth certificate listing Castaneda as his father.
?I haven?t been notified? of Castaneda?s death, said Margaret Runyan Castaneda, 76. ?I had no idea.?
When he wasn?t writing about how to better experience this life, Castaneda was preoccupied by death. In 1995, he told a seminar:
?We are all going to face infinity, whether we like it or not. Why do we do it when we are weakest, when we are broken, at the moment of dying? Why not when we are strong? Why Not Now?
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Stonehenge
Alt Center
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" [Re: mjshroomer]
#3368353 - 11/16/04 10:38 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Carlos was a storyteller, not a researcher. He took myths and legends and wove a story around them. This has been done for many thousands of years. He did popularise certain aspects of native lore and practices. If many things he spoke of did not exist, well, it was a story after all. You could say the stories were fantasy based in part on some things that did exist. I think he may have gotten caught up in the hero worship that comes with being a best selling author. It was hard for him to break the news to his fans that they were stories, not truth and that he was a writer, not a guru.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Silverwolf
sandtrout
Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 1,108
Loc: Darkover
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
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Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" [Re: Stonehenge]
#3380886 - 11/18/04 06:05 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Why have all the amanitas gone mostly bold in an italic fashion?
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"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""
Edited by Silverwolf (11/18/04 06:09 PM)
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Silverwolf
sandtrout
Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 1,108
Loc: Darkover
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
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Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" [Re: mjshroomer]
#3380899 - 11/18/04 06:08 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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You most certainly can smoke psilocybes, I bonged some up only the other day.
Oh and I don't believe the "berserker" stuff MJ. I have had plenty of personal experience with the amanitas. MJ is browbeating you with "feux" academia guys. Don't let him. 
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"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""
Edited by Silverwolf (09/27/06 03:03 AM)
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neuro
Phytophiliac
Registered: 08/10/99
Posts: 6,633
Loc: Rigel 7
Last seen: 6 months, 23 days
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Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" [Re: Silverwolf]
#3381228 - 11/18/04 07:11 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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>>You most certainly can smoke psilocybes, I bonged some up only the other day.
Well you most certainly can smoke anything. The question is if you'll get an effect. Smoking psilocybes? I'd say you'll get some effect, will it be anything close to ingestion? Certainly not.
>> Oh and I don't believe the "berserker" stuff MJ. I have had plenty of personal experience with the amanitas
Everyone always rejects academia when their personal experience differs.
>>(you have also said that there was no shamanic use of a.pantherina, which is obviously rubbish)
Because you say there's not? Some prominent researcher's who've devoted their lives to this have questioned it. I don't think you're qualified enough to call it rubbish or to try to defame John Allen and indirectly Richard Evans Schultes.
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Silverwolf
sandtrout
Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 1,108
Loc: Darkover
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
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Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" [Re: neuro]
#3396910 - 11/23/04 02:44 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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When traditional shamanism is taught it relies on knowledge directly imparted by the teacher with a great emphasis placed on the personal experience of the pupil. My guruji (teacher/imparter of wisdom), a very well respected spiritual master, in his learned and insightful book "Sharing the Quest" specifically mentions Don Juan's notion of a "seperate reality", and I am sure that he too would maintain that it is of no consequence whether these were "real" events or not.
The other point is that with one's head constantly in books (like some whom claim to be "witches" or "magicians") one never develops the intuition necessary to become a practicing anything , especially shaman ("If it's non-psychedelic I deplore it!" Terence Mckenna). There is also a danger that one's "dry academia" will leave one unable to appreciate both allegory and metaphor.
(Smoking shrooms works for me Bud!) 
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"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""
Edited by Silverwolf (11/23/04 02:48 AM)
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Silverwolf
sandtrout
Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 1,108
Loc: Darkover
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
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Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" *DELETED* [Re: Silverwolf]
#3398171 - 11/23/04 12:10 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Post deleted by SilverwolfReason for deletion: Repetition
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"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""
Edited by Silverwolf (11/25/04 08:23 AM)
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Silverwolf
sandtrout
Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 1,108
Loc: Darkover
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
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Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" *DELETED* [Re: Silverwolf]
#3477874 - 12/10/04 05:49 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Post deleted by SilverwolfReason for deletion: Bump
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"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""
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Silverwolf
sandtrout
Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 1,108
Loc: Darkover
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
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Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" [Re: Silverwolf]
#3480684 - 12/11/04 04:15 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Also a word on the "duties of a shaman"; if your work does not include practical environmentalism you cannot consider yourself a shaman. It is, and has always been, one of the duties of the shaman to care for the environment of which he/she is a part. It worries me that some on this site seem unable to grasp the importance of this responsibility, and are grossly underinformed about the way that pollution of the environment effects our coutryside (and especially our "shrooms"). Do they not watch even a small percentage of the television documentaries about environmental issues, or do they think it somehow "uncool" that they should keep themselves informed via the alternative radical media such as "INK" (go to www.ink.uk.com) ?
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"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""
Edited by Silverwolf (09/27/06 03:05 AM)
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Silverwolf
sandtrout
Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 1,108
Loc: Darkover
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
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 Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" [Re: Silverwolf]
#3489924 - 12/13/04 06:14 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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A recent documentary on "The History Channel" (I now have cable) concerned itself with the continuing impact of the Chernobyl ("Chernobyl" means "Wormwood", which grows abundantly in the area) accident on the local population. A major concern of the environmental scientists working in the area is the bio-accumulation of radioactive fallout from the accident in the local mycology. The local population traditionally rely on the edible mushrooms/fungi they gather. However these same fungi are now potentially deadly as they continue to absorb from the environment large amounts of radioactive fallout. The nature of fungi (high water content and mineral/trace element absorbtion) makes them peculiarly vulnerable to radioactive toxification. Why I ask, as is it seems to be by some on this site, is it assumed that this is a problem somehow peculiar to foreign shores (if it is aknowledged as a problem at all)? Granted the former USSR has a particularly bad record of radioactive and chemical environmental pollution, however America and Britain have just prosecuted a conflict by, in large measure, the use of radioactive waste for military munitions (not to mention the "West's" own nuclear power industry). It is evidential of an "ostrich mentality" that some here seem unable to grasp the serious implications of the use of nuclear power, and particularly depleted uranium usage, for the continuation of all life on this planet. 
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"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""
Edited by Silverwolf (12/13/04 05:54 PM)
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Fr0ggy
AmphibianExperimenter
Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 85
Loc: Amazonian Lily Pad
Last seen: 18 years, 2 days
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Re: "The Viper of Kernunnos" [Re: Silverwolf]
#3490093 - 12/13/04 07:33 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ribbit ?
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