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InvisibleSclorch
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Assumptions about the Unexplained
    #3339504 - 11/10/04 12:57 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I've had several significant unexplained (at the time, at least) experiences in my life. However, I've not made assumptions in my search to explain these experiences. Though having a solid answer might provide a certain level of comfort, I've over time come to accept that some things just cannot be explained.

The experiences:

1. Heavy hands @ age 7. I woke up in my parents' bed one night (I often fell asleep there and they'd move me to my bed) and it felt like my limbs were made of lead. I fought to gain the strength to move them and I eventually dragged myself to my own bed. (current explanation: a form of sleep paralysis)

2. Out of body experience in 4th grade. I was given Ketalar (brand name of ketamine) during a surgery to remove a mole (hypochondriac parents). As I regained consciousness after the surgery, I was looking down at my body which was lying on a padded table in an examination room. The room was tinted a mustard yellow (1980s, people) and I was not scared. Initially, I thought I was dreaming... and as soon as I realized I wasn't, I was immediately thrust back into my normal POV and I sat up on the bench. Soon after, while leaving the office, the hallway twisted and I felt gravity pulling me into the wall. I rode a wheelchair the rest of the way to the car. (current explanation: under the influence of a powerful dissociative, my brain mapped itself on to my surroundings and just changed perspectives)

3. Future dreaming in 6th grade. Dreamt of a normal classroom situation one night. Woke up feeling weird. Went to class that day - nothing happened. The dream did not repeat the following night. Went to class the next day and the EXACT scenario unfolded in front of my eyes! One minor difference between the dream and reality: everyone was wearing different clothes than in my dream. (current explanation: none)

enough for now...


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Assumptions about the Unexplained [Re: Sclorch]
    #3339536 - 11/10/04 01:37 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

so what about assumptions? what assumptions? did you have any question?


whats your point/ underlying topic/ theme?


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Everything I post is fiction. This poster is no longer active.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Assumptions about the Unexplained [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3339604 - 11/10/04 02:08 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

all good experiences,
personal treasures.
no need to explain.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Re: Assumptions about the Unexplained [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3339623 - 11/10/04 02:16 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
so what about assumptions? what assumptions? did you have any question?
whats your point/ underlying topic/ theme?




Would you consider any of the above a paranormal/supernatural experience?

I wouldn't. I make no assumption. And if I can make no conclusion, then I'm fine with that. I find no point in describing or classifying these experiences on esoteric terms.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Registered: 07/13/99
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Re: Assumptions about the Unexplained [Re: Sclorch]
    #3341707 - 11/10/04 03:19 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Hmm...

I must've hit too close to home.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Assumptions about the Unexplained [Re: Sclorch]
    #3341802 - 11/10/04 03:33 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I don't like to assume, but sometimes it's nice to hypothesize or theorize. Scientists cannot currently find the part of the brain that causes consciousness. My current theory is that consciousness does not come from the brain. I may one day be proven wrong, and if I am, then I will alter my ideas accordingly.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Assumptions about the Unexplained [Re: silversoul7]
    #3342355 - 11/10/04 05:25 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Scientists cannot currently find the part of the brain that causes consciousness.

I think the idea is getting out that we shoulding look for a part of the nervus system that causes conciousness. Consciousness is the whole thing, perhaps.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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InvisibleJellric
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Registered: 11/08/98
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Re: Assumptions about the Unexplained [Re: trendal]
    #3342539 - 11/10/04 05:58 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I agree, but we shouldn't assume that just because there is a correlation between some part of the brain or nervous system and consciousness that it is the cause of consciousness. I have a feeling the mystery goes much deeper than that.


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Assumptions about the Unexplained [Re: Sclorch]
    #3342549 - 11/10/04 05:59 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I totally agree. I try my hardest not to assign false explanations in place of a lack of concrete evidence.

I've experienced very few "phenomenon" outside of psychedelics. The only two I can think of:

One night when I was around 14-15 maybe I awoke from my sleep, sat up in my bed, and stared into the darkest spot of darkness--the interior of my closet. I didn't even know why I was staring there. But then I saw what looked like a swirl of red clouds forming.. as they intensified and brightened, they formed a face which opened it's mouth as if to scream at me.. I hid under the covers for a while.

Most likely explanation: I was half-awake, and essentially dreamt the contents of the closet.

#2: When I was about 12 or 13, me and a friend decided to make our latest tree fort project a large pine tree in my back yard. This was a very large pine tree, but wasn't really suitable for treehouse building... I ended up just nailing boards to a couple branches at a few different levels, essentially making "benches" instead of a fort.

Anyway, one day, me and said friend ventured up the tree. I went up first. After I passed the 3 "levels" we'd made, I decided to continue going up. I don't know why. I just did.

After climbing another 10 feet or so I looked out over my house, and was amazed at the view I had. It looked so small. I HAD to make it smaller.

Up I went, maybe another 10 feet or so. What a view! Un-fucking-believable! I didn't have a care in the world at this point, all that mattered was GETTING HIGHER.

[SNAP!] The next branch I grabbed broke off in my hand. I still remember the slow-motion fall-back, the branch still in my confused hand.

Next thing I know I'm on the ground, looking up at the tree, with no shoes on. Well, not really the ground. It was actually a bed of small boulders that had been put under the tree after our dry-well was dug out.

Oh, my shoes were found about 30 feet away, on the other side of the yard.

My parents rushed me to the ER, where I was thoroughly x-rayed. I didn't break a single bone. I "shocked" both of my ankles severely, and couldn't walk for a few days. Didn't even twist them or anything. Just shocked.

Now.. there's certainly some "phenomena" floating around here.

Firstly, how did I fall over 40 feet out of a pine tree, landing on a bed of small, sharp boulders (by small I mean like 1-2 foot rocks), without breaking ANYTHING?

Secondly, how did my shoes (high-tops, mind you, laced tightly to the top.) end up off my feet and on the other side of the yard?

my best guess:

The fall was broken by hitting just about every branch on the way down* (* See note on bottom as to why this doesn't quite 'fit') It's possible that my shoes were knocked off by one of these branches in the process. It's also possible that, upon landing, my shoes were "blown off" by my heels (remember, I landed face up so I must have been falling back first) hitting a larger boulder that was off-set to the side.

It's worth noting that if I had landed directly on that larger boulder, I probably would be paralyzed now.

Anyway, that's my most unexplained experience to date, I think.

I don't believe that some force came down and saved my ass--but I do consider it a possibility, considering how little damage I took from what should have been a very damaging fall.

note on bottom:

* 1. I wasn't covered in bruises or scrapes after.
* 2. My friend's account of the events was that he looked up, didn't see me above him, so he looked down, and I was on the ground. Somehow I think he would have heard it happening a bit more if I hit every branch on the way down.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Assumptions about the Unexplained [Re: Sclorch]
    #3342738 - 11/10/04 06:33 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

"I wouldn't. I make no assumption. And if I can make no conclusion, then I'm fine with that. I find no point in describing or classifying these experiences on esoteric terms. "

i agree with you to an extent, its better to leave something unexplained then to settle on an explanation that may be faulty. however, i do think it is fully rational to try to understand our experiences, and the best way to do that is often to research within whatever field of study is relevant.

if you observe a phenomenon that science has absolutely no explanation for, i personally would see what metaphysicists have to say about it. i wouldnt buy anything blindly, but, i would do some study and see if i couldnt figure anything out

"must have hit too close to home"

assuming your talking to me, i was simply trying to figure out the relationship of the content of your post to the title of your thread. the connection was not immediatly apparent to me.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction. This poster is no longer active.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Assumptions about the Unexplained [Re: trendal]
    #3342906 - 11/10/04 07:20 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
Scientists cannot currently find the part of the brain that causes consciousness.

I think the idea is getting out that we shoulding look for a part of the nervus system that causes conciousness. Consciousness is the whole thing, perhaps.



Then how would you explain the fact that people that have had part of their brain or nervous system removed still have consciousness?


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Assumptions about the Unexplained [Re: silversoul7]
    #3343319 - 11/10/04 08:56 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Is it still the same consciousness?

I don't think people are completely the "same" after having even a small lobotomy, so how would you explain this change in consciousness if the nervous system is NOT responsible (at least in part)?


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Assumptions about the Unexplained [Re: trendal]
    #3343379 - 11/10/04 09:11 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Damn, good response.. heh.. I didn't see that coming. (Though I admit I didn't give that portion of this thread more than a fleeting glance in the first place...)


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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 2,261
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Re: Assumptions about the Unexplained [Re: trendal]
    #3343456 - 11/10/04 09:32 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

If I removed all but 32 megs of RAM from your computer how well would it work?
Not very well or fast of course.

But notice that says nothing about the software! I would compare consciousness to the software and the brain and nervous system to the hardware. If you don't have good hardware your wonderful software has no expression. It is there the whole time of course, but has no means of making itself known.

Consciousness is the elusive Ghost in the machine.


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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OfflineReddragon55555
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Dreams [Re: Jellric]
    #3343759 - 11/10/04 10:55 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I am interested in your future dreams.  Ever since I was old enough to understand/comprehend my dreams, I have had what you call "future dreams."  They happen about 2-3 times a week and I have become quite good at recognising when I have them, when they happen it comes in the form of really long deja vu.  I have seen many psychiatrists (my parents made me go after I predicted my Aunt's death and a car accident) that have told me that part of my brain is in use that normally is not, many others have said I have a strong third eye. I believe it is something more spiritual but I am having a hard time finding answers.  I know the truth is out there and hopefully I will find it. :mushroom2:


Edited by Reddragon55555 (11/10/04 10:57 PM)


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Offlinekbilly
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Re: Dreams [Re: Reddragon55555]
    #3344126 - 11/11/04 12:15 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

deja vu is scientifically understood to be a brain malfunction, somtimes brought on by stress or other factors, it feels like youve had that experience before that is true, but you may not in fact have had it at all. in other words you do not have to have had the experience to conmpletely feel and belive that you have. there is a gaint gap between reality and what we perceive, our brains do not in any way provide us with a clear and uncreated image of what is going on, it interprets deletes and fabricates according to need.

you are but its slave.


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OfflineJ4S0N
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Re: Dreams [Re: kbilly]
    #3344689 - 11/11/04 01:53 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I've been recently having experiences where I remember what im seeing from a dream I had as a child. Or atleast thats what if *feels* like while its happening (as far as I can tell). Its really strange, it lasts for a long time too..up to 30 secs i suppose. the last year has been really weird when it comes to deja vu like experiences.


--------------------
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Dreams [Re: J4S0N]
    #3344723 - 11/11/04 02:01 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I've had quite a few precognitive experiences just as Sclorch described..

Aside from that, the other paranormal experience I've had that comes to mind was meeting a psychic...Pretty neat, there were quite a few things that she said that were obviously indicative of paranormal abilities..



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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Dreams [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #3344909 - 11/11/04 02:44 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

"Oh happiness is happening"
-David-Bowie


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Disclaimer!?


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Assumptions about the Unexplained [Re: Jellric]
    #3345574 - 11/11/04 07:25 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Jellric said:
If I removed all but 32 megs of RAM from your computer how well would it work?
Not very well or fast of course.




True, but that analogy brings us back to ss7's point about scientists not being able to find the part of the brain where consciousness resides.

Also, if you damage (even severely) the memory structures of the human brain, a VERY specific condition is produced but WITHOUT a loss of any consciousness (or even it's outward expression). The person is simply unable to encode any NEW memories.

So memory may be a special case.

What if you pull out your CPU? Or your hard drive? With no CPU the software doesn't "exist" as anything but a bunch of magnetic points on your hard disk. Without your hard drive the computer can still be turned on, but will sit in a "vegetative" state with only basic "life-support" functions.

Likewise, with the human brian, if you remove parts OTHER than the memory-encoding structures you end up with what appears to be a significantly reduced capacity for consciousness. The consciousness might still "be there", encoded in the brain somewhere, but it will not be "running" and so the person probably doesn't have the same conscious EXPERIENCE of the world. I'm willing to bet that a person in a vegetative state doesn't "experience" anything at all. They are not conscious.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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