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Offlinethashaman
Biophilosopher

Registered: 11/09/04
Posts: 161
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
Fuzzy wuzzy was a bear.
    #3339182 - 11/09/04 11:19 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I am waiting to cultivate my first flush, and very excited/ anxious. I was told somewhere that the amount the stem stains when touched is proportional to the potentcy. I was told the bluer the better. I was wondering if this has any validity. Also, the mushrooms are not quite ready, they're all about 3 inches tall and the stalks are about a dime size circumfrance. I want the caps to open but they are staying vield and beginning to get wavy close to the veil. Also the very base of them are getting very fuzzy like. When is the best time to harvest? Do I even need to wait for the veil to crack if most of the potency is in the stem??? Also what is a casing?


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Offlinediscman1
journeyman
Registered: 08/24/04
Posts: 962
Last seen: 11 years, 11 months
Re: Fuzzy wuzzy was a bear. [Re: thashaman]
    #3339186 - 11/09/04 11:20 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

"Most" potency isn't in the stem. it is distributed throughout the entire mushroom.



moments before being picked :wink:


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Offlinescatmanrav
Brainy Smurf

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,483
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Fuzzy wuzzy was a bear. [Re: discman1]
    #3340048 - 11/10/04 05:01 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Bluer does not mean better.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineDMTelepath
Nut

Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 567
Loc: States of America
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: Fuzzy wuzzy was a bear. [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3340063 - 11/10/04 05:08 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Bluer means some psilocybin has already converted to psilocin in the mushroom i believe. The bluer, the more that has converted. When you ingest mushrooms, your body converts the psilocybin to psilocin, but they are equal i guess.


--------------------
Me, Myself, and GOD


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InvisibleSam1912
journeyman

Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 2,142
Loc: Cali
Re: Fuzzy wuzzy was a bear. [Re: DMTelepath]
    #3340084 - 11/10/04 05:16 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

It also depends on the strain a lot. Some bruise easier and harder than others.

Sam


--------------------
Protect your civil rights!  End drug prohibition.  And if you don't care about your civil rights, protect mine!

If you want a rating from me, please PM me.  For those really newbies, don't expect an answer back, but you can try me anyways.


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Offlinescatmanrav
Brainy Smurf

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,483
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Re: Fuzzy wuzzy was a bear. [Re: DMTelepath]
    #3340122 - 11/10/04 05:33 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DMTelepath said:
Bluer means some psilocybin has already converted to psilocin in the mushroom i believe. The bluer, the more that has converted. When you ingest mushrooms, your body converts the psilocybin to psilocin, but they are equal i guess.




Psilocin is actually about twice as potent as psilocybin.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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InvisibleSam1912
journeyman

Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 2,142
Loc: Cali
Re: Fuzzy wuzzy was a bear. [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3340149 - 11/10/04 05:42 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

??

no. Almost all psilocybin is converted to psilocycin during first 10 minutes once it enters the digestive tract. So, the potencywise.. psilocycin = psiliocybin.

Most of the difference is in your head, I think... just like dry vs wet thing.

Sam


--------------------
Protect your civil rights!  End drug prohibition.  And if you don't care about your civil rights, protect mine!

If you want a rating from me, please PM me.  For those really newbies, don't expect an answer back, but you can try me anyways.


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Offlinescatmanrav
Brainy Smurf

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,483
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Fuzzy wuzzy was a bear. [Re: Sam1912]
    #3340167 - 11/10/04 06:05 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Well if your comparing two mushrooms chemicals it helps to put the number into psilocin units. To do this, since psilocin is twice as potent as psilocybin but psilocybin breaks down into psilocin quickly once injested, you multiply the psilocybin amounts by 2 and add them to the psilocin amounts. No real practical use when dosing but just thought I'd toss that out there.

This is from Stamets BTW.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSam1912
journeyman

Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 2,142
Loc: Cali
Re: Fuzzy wuzzy was a bear. [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3340174 - 11/10/04 06:13 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

oops.. psilocin, not psilocycin..

They should be the same because psilocybin is converted to psilocin very fast in the GI tract. And also, GI tract is where most of the absorbtion of psilocin occurs.

Sam


--------------------
Protect your civil rights!  End drug prohibition.  And if you don't care about your civil rights, protect mine!

If you want a rating from me, please PM me.  For those really newbies, don't expect an answer back, but you can try me anyways.


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Offlinescatmanrav
Brainy Smurf

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,483
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Fuzzy wuzzy was a bear. [Re: Sam1912]
    #3340179 - 11/10/04 06:24 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Right once in the body they are the same because its converted however in that conversion it's like doubling the units. So the unit of potency in psilocybin units is 4 then you inject them and the psilocybin turns into psilocin and adds to the already existant psilocin and would now equal 8 psilocybin units. Thats not exactly how it is but its hard for me to discribe the point better..its not meant for injestion potencies..its meant for comparing uninjested mushrooms to see what the end psilocin amount will be once injested..so if theres 10mg psilocybin and 6mg psilocin in whatever you eat you multiply psilocybin by 2 and add to the 6 so 10x2+6=26. Compared to a mushrooms with say 8mg psilocybin and 10mg psilocin, you get 8x2+10=26 units. The mushrooms should be mostly equal (assuming other chemicals are equal which they wouldnt be and why shrooms will still always differ). I dunno like I said this has no practical use here or anything..

wet vs dry BTW are a bit different..drying shrooms breaks down most of the psilocin in shrooms so you can lose those actives and fresh will be more potent then dry. Some more or less then others depending on how much of the active part of the shroom is psilocybin and how much is psilocin.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSam1912
journeyman

Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 2,142
Loc: Cali
Re: Fuzzy wuzzy was a bear. [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3340206 - 11/10/04 06:52 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

: nod :

I wonder what stomach acid(HCl) does to psilocin... psilocin is supposed to be far more unstable... Maybe that's why the difference between dry and wet is so controversial...

Sam


--------------------
Protect your civil rights!  End drug prohibition.  And if you don't care about your civil rights, protect mine!

If you want a rating from me, please PM me.  For those really newbies, don't expect an answer back, but you can try me anyways.


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OfflineSilven
I trip,therefore weare.

Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 2,071
Loc: El Mexicano
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
Re: Fuzzy wuzzy was a bear. [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3340379 - 11/10/04 08:28 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I've always read that psilocybin breaks down into two parts psilocin when introduced into the body.

So in my mind that means psilocybin is the more potent of the two.

If psilocybin breaks down into 2 molecules of psilocin and just hypothetically lets say that your mushroom had 8 molecules of psilocybin in it and 10 molecules of psilocin originally before any break down, and lets just negate all break down of psilocin based on oxygen, heat, etc. Now that means your 8 molecules of psilocybin are actually as potent as 16 molecules of psilocin, and your 10 molecules of psilocin are just that, 10 molecules of psilocin.

Therefore my conclusion is psilocybin is 2x as potent as psilocin since it breaks down into two psilocin molecules.

It would be like having 2 joints of schwag weed with 5 molecules of THC in them (I know that's a rediculously low amount, but lets use small numbers), and another and 2 joints of high potency dank weed that has 7 molecules of THC in each of them. So the schwag total = 10 molecules THC vs. the 14 molecules of the dank. Which was more potent? The dank of course.

In this case you would substitute psilocin as schwag and psilocybin in as the dank.

Make sense?


--------------------
Born: 10/31/83, which makes me a Scorpio.

1) Scorpios are the most highly sexed of all the signs of the zodiac.
2) Scorpios are prone to excesses: booze, drugs, sex, bad puns, etc.
They usually exploit the weaknesses of others, who fall victim to
their capacity for total lust & sexual abberation.
3) Scorpios possess great intellectual curiosity & creative talent. They
think they are rebels & are arrogant, proud, conceited, and worth every
penny of it.

What do you bring to the table?


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InvisibleSam1912
journeyman

Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 2,142
Loc: Cali
Re: Fuzzy wuzzy was a bear. [Re: Silven]
    #3340387 - 11/10/04 08:35 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

No. Psilocybin is C12H17N2O4P and psilocin is C12H16N2O.

The difference is phosphate(PO4) I can't remember which enzyme is responsible for chopping off the phosphate, but one of the enzymes in the GI tract does that. Lost phosphate is replaced by OH- and that's what makes psilocin. So ratio is 1 to 1.

Sam


--------------------
Protect your civil rights!  End drug prohibition.  And if you don't care about your civil rights, protect mine!

If you want a rating from me, please PM me.  For those really newbies, don't expect an answer back, but you can try me anyways.


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OfflineSilven
I trip,therefore weare.

Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 2,071
Loc: El Mexicano
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
Re: Fuzzy wuzzy was a bear. [Re: Sam1912]
    #3340390 - 11/10/04 08:37 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Ah, thank you Sam :smile:

I'm going to do some reading on this I think this morning since it's grabbing my attention.


--------------------
Born: 10/31/83, which makes me a Scorpio.

1) Scorpios are the most highly sexed of all the signs of the zodiac.
2) Scorpios are prone to excesses: booze, drugs, sex, bad puns, etc.
They usually exploit the weaknesses of others, who fall victim to
their capacity for total lust & sexual abberation.
3) Scorpios possess great intellectual curiosity & creative talent. They
think they are rebels & are arrogant, proud, conceited, and worth every
penny of it.

What do you bring to the table?


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Offlinescatmanrav
Brainy Smurf

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,483
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Fuzzy wuzzy was a bear. [Re: Silven]
    #3342799 - 11/10/04 06:47 PM (12 years, 30 days ago)

What you probably heard was what I was saying..thats a way of thinking about it..the psilocybin units turns into 2 psilocin units each. Thats not actually what happens though..the psilocybin turns into a psilocin molecule which is equal in potentcy to 2 psilocybin units. Theres some info on a FAQ page here but I can't find it..I only saw it once and it was one long page of just basic cultivation..I havnt looked to hard but someone posted the link before..if you look around you could probably find it. Stamets has more info on the subject though.

I'm unsure of what stomach acid does to it..I don't think much..wouldnt it just abosrb the chemicals instead of breaking them down? Anatomy isn't a strong subject for me..I passed it in high school but that was a number of years and a much larger number of blunts ago.. Psilocin is definatly more unstable then psilocybin though which is the whole thing between wet and dry..but that also plays into the heat subject. Psilocybin doesnt break down at low temps easily..much more stable..psilocin breaks down very quickly though and people say that if you dry with heat (even low heat) more psilocin breaks down then fan and desiccant drying but I'm pretty sure that dry mushrooms contain very little psilocin to begin with because the drying process alone (at least if done at room temperature..maybe not if done in a fridge) is enough to break down all or just about all of the psilocin.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinethashaman
Biophilosopher

Registered: 11/09/04
Posts: 161
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
Re: Fuzzy wuzzy was a bear. [Re: Sam1912]
    #3345096 - 11/11/04 03:43 AM (12 years, 30 days ago)

Hey sam and others, I have a pretty good idea of what stomach acid does to psilocin and psilocybin. in the case of psilocin, there is a hydroxyl group coming off the benzene ring. Stomach acid has a very low PH, sometimes as low as two or three. This means lots of protons floating around. Whicn means taht the hydroxyl group -OH will stay protonated in the stomach since it is surrounded by a sea of protons. This molecule is highly non-polar in this form and cannot pass through membranous structures and so will tend to be passed down into the small intestine. Here, the environment is more basic, and the hydroxyl group will become deprotonated giveing psilocin a full negative charge. This makes psilocin an enolate ion and very polar. It can now cross over into the blood stream via some polar transmembrane protien. It is very unlikely that the molecule simply diffuses through the membrane into the bloodstream because it cannot in its full and negative glorious charge span the non-polar membrane. "LIKE DISSOLVES LIKE". And besides its too big. If it does diffuse through the membrane however on its own, then its more likely that in the stomach is the sight of diffusion as the molecule is non-polar here.
It is liekly as well that in the stomach, psilocybin is converted to psilocin by dephosphorylation and protonation of the 5-terminus on the benzene ring. So it is likly that psilocybin can not be utilized at all by the seratonin and dopamine receptors in the brain, but must be in the form of psilocin. This is ok, since the body has a way of converting to psilocin. It would be interesting and I would think there would be a strong correlation between psilocybin content and time of peak activity. In otherwords, dephosphorylation takes time. I would be willing to put money on it, if the psilocybin/ psilocin ratio is high (high psilocybin content, low psilocin content) in a batch, the longer they take to start working but also the longer the trip. If the psilocybin/psilocin ratio is low (low psilocybin, high psilocin) then the trip takes effect faster, because the body doesnt have to dephosphorylate and protonate the molecule, but i bet it wears off faster. This is all speculative but based on real biochemistry!!! Its my major, I should be able to at least make a logical stab at it.


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Offlinescatmanrav
Brainy Smurf

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,483
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Fuzzy wuzzy was a bear. [Re: thashaman]
    #3345258 - 11/11/04 04:37 AM (12 years, 30 days ago)

See I think you got it backwords with this part (thanks for the info though, very good stuff):

" would be willing to put money on it, if the psilocybin/ psilocin ratio is high (high psilocybin content, low psilocin content) in a batch, the longer they take to start working but also the longer the trip. If the psilocybin/psilocin ratio is low (low psilocybin, high psilocin) then the trip takes effect faster"

IME fresh mushrooms which would have a higher concentration of psilocin then dry ones kick in VERY quickly..much quicker then dry shrooms EVERY time. Dry shrooms most likly contain almost no psilocin however which would cause their kick in time to be generally the same but the psilocybin content ranges and that could be the reason some last slightly longer then other trips..makes sense. I think the body will immediatly start converting the psilcybin into psilocin whether it has to or not though so the length of the trip shouldnt really vary depending on the amount of psilocin. Unless of course the length of the trip depends mainly on the total amount of actives injested and not how long it takes to convert and absorb chemicals. Though I have experienced that in general if I take a similar dose of different shrooms the difference is usually about the same trip total but some shrooms its more stretched out and calm and some its more in your face (or the walls carpet TV ect) and quick and bam!

Also I've notice that in times of puking after injestion (after at least an hour after eating) causes the trip to intensify incredibly afterword with incredibly vivid colors, visuals and hallucinations and then a quick come down..almost like it gives you the rest of what its got all at once within the next 30-60 minutes..but for that time 1.5 grams feels like an 1/8. Wonder what causes this..


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
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