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 AnonymousNewbie
Mad Scientist
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 211
Loc: England
Last seen: 18 years, 10 months
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 Tupperware instead of jars... 
#3335862 - 11/09/04 01:39 AM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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Jars are not as efficient as say a big tupperware container full of rye would be. Does anyone fill tupperware up with rye and pressure cook that instead of using all the jars. Then just knocking up the Rubbermaid container.
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scatmanrav
Brainy Smurf
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,483
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Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Depends, Jars can certinaly be more efficient..why not? When I load jars into my PC there is very little space not being used because the jars fit so well together. Tupperware however is generally square (more surface area then a square casing of the same diameter) or rectangle..and I dont know about you but my PC is round like jars. I can only fit two tupperware containers in my PC as opposed to 10 quart jars. Now even assuming I filled the tupperware containers up to the top..it wouldnt be 10 quarts of rye. And still it would have to be pulled out and cased in seperate containers since only 1-2 quarts per container of the size that fits in my PC should be used if you just want to inject and then case it like it is once colonized.
Bags however are definatly more efficient then jars..slightly more difficult to deal with though.
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 NewfoundFreedom
Manure whore
Registered: 05/06/04
Posts: 1,915
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Re: Tupperware instead of jars... [Re: scatmanrav]
#3336070 - 11/09/04 05:34 AM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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Thanks for your opinion on the matter but you should both read this
You can PC as a casing saving yourself the trouble of casing after colonization. Having the casing layer on before hand also provides an extra cantam barrier. The only problem I've seen mentioned with this is that Magash has had slight overlay from time to time.
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NewfoundFreedom
Manure whore
Registered: 05/06/04
Posts: 1,915
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Side note, there are plenty of round tupperware which can easily fit into the PC to be stacked. It doesn't sound like the jars are the problem, it's just that your PC won't accomodate the tupperware. I'm sure you didn't buy it for that purpose to begin with though. Can't say I did any different myself.
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Silven
Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 2,072
Loc: El Mexicano
Last seen: 9 months, 14 hours
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Re: Tupperware instead of jars... [Re: scatmanrav]
#3336109 - 11/09/04 06:10 AM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm with Scatmanrav, my PC is also round.
It's not the PC that won't accomodate the tupperware, the tupperware probably wasn't designed to be used in a pressure cooker, which is generally used for canning.
Tupperware containers would be great, but unless they are the crystal clear kind, they are worthless. A lot of people that use them seem to be using ones that are just translucent rather than crystal clear, this not only makes it hard to tell if your cake is 100% colonized, but you may end up having contams and not know it as well.
I'm sticking with quart jars. 
Just my opinions.
- Silven
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What do you bring to the table?
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scatmanrav
Brainy Smurf
Registered: 05/08/04
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I have already read that post. Magash does that because he PCs his casing containers and everything anyway..he spends a hell of a lot more time PCing then I'm willing to.
Having the casing layer on can definatly lead to overlay..I believe Magash tried it like that and stopped doing it for a reason.
If my PC wont accomadate it, how big of a PC do you have? Both of mine are 25 quarts. As I said about round containers...they do not provide the surface area that square containers do. My closets square..my shelves are square..trying to fill it with round casings will definatly not be efficient to my mushrooms. And STILL you can ***only fit so many in*** If you are just casing it..notice Magash uses 1 quart per casing container. When you fit in casing containers that are square you cant fit as many in plus the airspace from the top of the casing layer to the top of the container will take up alot of space. If you make efficient casings (optimized surface area and depth) you can not fit the same amount of grain into the PC at a time. Now I'm not saying this doesnt work and that you cant make it work for you..my original response was thinking you meant effiency in pressure cooking. No matter how you look at it jars will be more efficent then ziplocks or tupperware containers when pressure cooking. Though you may save yourself some time casing. I've tried many different ways. I do tons of rye all the time and have followed Magashs teks and footsteps and have tried different methods and this is what I've found.
Also a problem is incubation though..the space in the casing container is much more then a jar, I can fit 30 quarts in each of my tub in tubs and yet only 8-10 2 quart casings.
And still either way above all....bags are the MOST efficient by far..you can not only do more substrate at once in the PC (12 quarts worth instead of 10 with jars), you can incubate more at once, break up the substrate in the bag easily when its time to case and just pour it in. Bags of casing mix ready to pour in as well.
By the way I bought both of my PC's, my 11 dozen quart jars (plus 2 dozen pint and a dozen 1/2pint) and all of my 70+ ziplock, rubbermaid, sterilite, tupperware and glad casing containers (were not going to mention the 2 dozen tin foil ones, I'll never use them again) specifically for that purpose.
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ChinaBoy
Stranger
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 225
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
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Re: Tupperware instead of jars... [Re: scatmanrav]
#3336349 - 11/09/04 08:10 AM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm still kind of new at this, but I would rather use jars. I can fit a lot of jars in my PC compared to most tupperware that I would want to use for a case. Plus, I don't think its too difficult to make cases either.
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Sam1912
journeyman
Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 2,142
Loc: Cali
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Re: Tupperware instead of jars... [Re: ChinaBoy]
#3336379 - 11/09/04 08:19 AM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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You can use bigger jars if you want to do more. 
Sam
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Protect your civil rights! End drug prohibition. And if you don't care about your civil rights, protect mine!
If you want a rating from me, please PM me. For those really newbies, don't expect an answer back, but you can try me anyways.
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scatmanrav
Brainy Smurf
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Re: Tupperware instead of jars... [Re: Sam1912]
#3336407 - 11/09/04 08:36 AM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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Where can we get bigger jars for a good price? I'd love some that would fit in my PC well to let me do more then 10 quarts at a time..I can't find glass jars over a quart though...
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Sam1912
journeyman
Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 2,142
Loc: Cali
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Re: Tupperware instead of jars... [Re: scatmanrav]
#3336449 - 11/09/04 08:50 AM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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Visit your local glass blowers. You'll have to make your own lid, though. They can make them for you. If you don't have on near by, try 99 cent stores and michaels(a bit more expensive). They have wide selection of funky looking and oversized jars. I think I have a glass blower near by... should check... Maybe I can get a 10qt jar to fit my PC perfectly just for shits ang giggles.
Here's something from linens and things... I don't remember very well if they had other shapes...
http://www.lnt.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1352121
Sam
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Protect your civil rights! End drug prohibition. And if you don't care about your civil rights, protect mine!
If you want a rating from me, please PM me. For those really newbies, don't expect an answer back, but you can try me anyways.
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Sam1912
journeyman
Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 2,142
Loc: Cali
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Re: Tupperware instead of jars... [Re: Sam1912]
#3336526 - 11/09/04 09:11 AM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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Did you know ball makes 1/2 gal jars?
Sam
--------------------
Protect your civil rights! End drug prohibition. And if you don't care about your civil rights, protect mine!
If you want a rating from me, please PM me. For those really newbies, don't expect an answer back, but you can try me anyways.
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scatmanrav
Brainy Smurf
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,483
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Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Re: Tupperware instead of jars... [Re: Sam1912]
#3336612 - 11/09/04 09:35 AM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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I sure didnt, where can you find them suckers? I googled but alas found nothing on ball jars over a quart.
From that at linens and things it looks like it would be difficult to alter the top..seems to be glass and air tight.
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spliffmasta
Fuzzy thumb
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 764
Loc: Casing layer of hell
Last seen: 19 years, 29 days
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Re: Tupperware instead of jars... [Re: Sam1912]
#3336636 - 11/09/04 09:42 AM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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Sam1912
journeyman
Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 2,142
Loc: Cali
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Re: Tupperware instead of jars... [Re: spliffmasta]
#3336661 - 11/09/04 09:50 AM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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I made some inquiries with custom glass manufacturers for ya. I asked for 16" diameter by 12" high with largest possible threaded metal lid. I'll let you know what they say.
Sam
--------------------
Protect your civil rights! End drug prohibition. And if you don't care about your civil rights, protect mine!
If you want a rating from me, please PM me. For those really newbies, don't expect an answer back, but you can try me anyways.
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spliffmasta
Fuzzy thumb
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 764
Loc: Casing layer of hell
Last seen: 19 years, 29 days
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Re: Tupperware instead of jars... [Re: Sam1912]
#3336689 - 11/09/04 09:56 AM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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To me it seems like the easiest logical investment in this case would be another PC and stick with the jars. My 18 QT Presto fits 10 quart jars very efficiently, cramped, but efficient. If that's not good enough for you, then nothing will be except another PC because they don't get much bigger, and you're not going to maximize efficiency by very much at all with bigger, custom jars. Plus, for a newb (like me), you probably want to keep your jar size down to keep colonization fast and chance of contam down. I suppose a solution to that risk factor would be G2G wouldn't it?
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Sam1912
journeyman
Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 2,142
Loc: Cali
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Re: Tupperware instead of jars... [Re: spliffmasta]
#3336706 - 11/09/04 10:00 AM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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It would be terrible convenient to load 4 gal jars with 3.5 gal of substrate and roll them around if you have a lot of casing.
Sam
--------------------
Protect your civil rights! End drug prohibition. And if you don't care about your civil rights, protect mine!
If you want a rating from me, please PM me. For those really newbies, don't expect an answer back, but you can try me anyways.
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spliffmasta
Fuzzy thumb
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 764
Loc: Casing layer of hell
Last seen: 19 years, 29 days
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Re: Tupperware instead of jars... [Re: Sam1912]
#3336711 - 11/09/04 10:02 AM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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4 Gallon cakes?! That's awesome.
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Sam1912
journeyman
Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 2,142
Loc: Cali
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Re: Tupperware instead of jars... [Re: spliffmasta]
#3336736 - 11/09/04 10:12 AM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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not cakes, silly. rye for casing.
Sam
--------------------
Protect your civil rights! End drug prohibition. And if you don't care about your civil rights, protect mine!
If you want a rating from me, please PM me. For those really newbies, don't expect an answer back, but you can try me anyways.
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scatmanrav
Brainy Smurf
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,483
Loc:
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Re: Tupperware instead of jars... [Re: spliffmasta]
#3336749 - 11/09/04 10:16 AM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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No not cakces, that would take forever to colonize. Grain however would take less time. My contamination percentage is generally nil so thats not really a factor. I have 2 PCs that hold 10 quarts (by the way they make them that will hold double that or more..they certainly do get much bigger) but its just a pain to deal with all the jars and knocking up. I do alot of grain. Grain is the easiest..I can't do bulk in bulk due to my situation so grain is it so I have to do alot of it. It still with both of those takes me 2 PC runs per week (using both PCs, one doesnt work so well though..seals not so great I still usually use it but not always) just for grain. Then theres casing mix. I've used the oven but I dont really trust it and I like to PC it. Thats another 2 PC runs per week using both PCs. Then all the time doing liquid cultures and karo water and syringes (all I use, no spores really) keeps me at the PC a long time.
I don't know if those 1/2 gallons would work well in my current PC because I dont know exactly their dimentions. They give the diameter but thats the lid and I'm not sure how big the body of it is. I bet those with a 45 qt PC would work out pretty nice though...
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Silven
Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 2,072
Loc: El Mexicano
Last seen: 9 months, 14 hours
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Re: Tupperware instead of jars... [Re: Sam1912]
#3337415 - 11/09/04 01:31 PM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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Wow, 1/2 gallon jars. I think I might get a couple of them.
People think more substrate takes longer to colonize.. but if you're colonizing rye in a 1 qt jar and rye in a pint jar, they finish about the same time.
If you think about it, it makes sense. As your colonization continues the amount of surface area covered by the myc grows proportionately to the outside perimeter of the myc in the jars so larger jars have a much greater perimeter of myc than small jars so it's rapidly colonizing substrate at a pace that equals 100% colonization around the same time as the smaller perimeter that a pint jar provides.
Just my take on the whole situation. I'd say half gallon jars would take around 11 or 12 days to fully colonize with rye.. but that's just speculation
- Silven
--------------------
What do you bring to the table?
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