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Offlineionic
newbie

Registered: 06/03/01
Posts: 38
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Increasing Secondary Metabolites with Pyridoxine
    #333506 - 06/03/01 11:43 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

OK, so this is my theory. I don't know how many people have tried this yet, and if so all of the results are surely questionable. I know Pyridoxine (Vitamin B6) is a precursor to the enzyme necessary in the creation of certain neurotransmitters. Pyridoxal in the mushrooms will theoretically increase the rate at which tryptophan in the substrate will be turned into Tryptamine. Any more explicit information on this topic would be useful. Anyway, I have gone on with the experiment.

The Experiment:
Using a brown rice flour and vermiculite substrate three groups were created, each consisting of four half pint jars. To the first group was added 300mg pyridoxine hcl in crushed pill form. The second group got three tablespoons of Banisterius Caapi (I believe Shulgin was the first to experiment by adding betacarbolines to mushrooms and found completely new psychotropocs, but this is basically a shot in the dark.) And the third group is control. We'll see how these additions affect colonization and fruiting, so I'll keept posting. The shrooms will be ingested by two subjects fresh in a blind study, each ingestion three wees apart to make up for resistance.

Oh yeah, and to all you crazies trying to add tryptophan to substrates are wasting time. Brown rice flour is an excellent source, and differences should be negligible. I would love to be proved otherwise though, but until then I think adding necessary enzymes, or chemicals further in the alkaloid creation process (e.g. tryptamine, DMT).



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Offlinemadscientist
journeyman
Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 110
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
Re: Increasing Secondary Metabolites with Pyridoxine [Re: ionic]
    #333821 - 06/04/01 08:09 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Dude, adding B6 is in my opinion a waste of vitamin pills. Be carefull of equating mammalian neurotransmitter biosynthetic pathways with the biosynthesis of neurotransmitter analogoues in fungi. Im not saying that it deffinitley wont work though, and Id like to know what happens. By the way, instead of using B6 pills, just add some brewers or bakers yeast or even a little bit of marmite to your PF substrate and you should get enough B6. Also, this added nitrogen source should increase growth rates.

Happy shrooming!



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Instead of the dove as the symbol of peace we should have a pillow. Its got more feathers but doesnt have that nasty sharp beak......


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Offlinegray1
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Registered: 04/30/01
Posts: 430
Loc: brooklyn
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
Re: Increasing Secondary Metabolites with Pyridoxi [Re: madscientist]
    #333857 - 06/04/01 09:37 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

i agree with madscientist in that adding brewers yeast is probably better than strictly b6.
by adding b6 you aren't necessarily specifically targeting the enzymes that are involved in the psilocybin biosynthetic pathway. in this case, you might as well attempt to provide all necessary vitamins/co-factors/nutrients possible in order to create an optimal environment for growth. in such an environment it is possible that general levels of enzymes will be increased, thereby increasing the amount of tryptpophan or whatever precursor/intermediate into the end product.
brewers yeast would be a good nutritional supplement to achieve this goal.
alos, what is crucial in experiments involving supplementing the substrate is the nutritional content of the substrate itself, and whether it needs supplementing. as you suggested, brf is high in tryptophan to begin with, and so supplementing with tryptophan may serve to be useless, regardless of the theory behind supplementation.




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OfflineHumidity
Mad Scientist
Registered: 04/02/00
Posts: 358
Loc: Somewhere in Northeast OH
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: Increasing Secondary Metabolites with Pyridoxine [Re: ionic]
    #333997 - 06/04/01 01:29 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I think it would be worth a try you also might want to add L-Methionine. It is a is used to make a chemical that combines with tryptamine to make N-methyltryptamine. If it works great tell us all about it, if not o well at least you gave it a shot.



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"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking


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Offlinegray1
addict

Registered: 04/30/01
Posts: 430
Loc: brooklyn
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
Re: Increasing Secondary Metabolites with Pyridoxi [Re: Humidity]
    #335092 - 06/05/01 12:19 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

i think that it's probably a better to generally supplement with something that includes all aminos, co factors, etc... rather than trying to specifically increase the level of a co-factor simply because it is involved with a enzyme in the biosynthetic pathway.

yes they are important, but they are just a small component of a multifaceted process, and they are also involved in a multitude of other enzymatic process, you won't be specifically targeting the psilocybin/psilocin biosynthetic pathway by supplementing with l-meth or b6...

they are definately important to both this biosynthetic process and the general well being/processing/growth/many other physiological pathways of the organism and should be accounted for, but i doubt that supplementing with them individually in high amounts would actually cause a largely noticable increase in potencey.
again, brewers yeast/brf is a good suggestin that would probably provide sufficient nutritional amounts required for good growth...

gray1



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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Advanced Mycology

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