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Offlineh2o
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Registered: 09/22/04
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"Wild cyans" w/pics
    #3334122 - 11/08/04 08:24 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Will someone please respond definitively as to what type of habitat I might find 'wild cyanescens'?

I have read on this site that they don't grow 'in the wild', that they grow 'on alder chips' and that trying to find them in the wild is a waste of time.

Has anyone found them anywhere else? I live in Forks, Wa and it would seem to be ideal growing conditions if I could just identify and find the right habitat. The couple times I have posted about trying to find ANY type of active mushroom in my area, people on this board have been less than encouraging....

Well, imagine my surprise this afternoon as I was walking through my yard, head cast downwards of course, and found these two cyanescens caps...


In my excitement, I cut them before I had the chance to photograph them in their natural habitat, but here is a pictutre of the exact spot they came from...


There is no alder for hundreds of yards in either direction. The tree they were growing under is a black walnut, the decaying husks, branches and limbs of which produce a toxin called juglone. I'm astounded to have found these where I did and I'm hoping someone here that understands these fascinating creatures more than I will fill me in on where else I might look in the forks area for active mushrooms....

Oh....here's a pic of the black walnut tree they were growing under...


\m/


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OfflineSoftRat
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Re: "Wild cyans" w/pics [Re: h2o]
    #3334139 - 11/08/04 08:27 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Some one posted a few days ago saying he has found cyans in the wild under black berry vines. I don't know if he finds them often there or just once in a while.


--------------------
Everything I say in these posts is a made up fiction.


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InvisibleJoshua
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Re: "Wild cyans" w/pics [Re: h2o]
    #3334184 - 11/08/04 08:37 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Finding them in a wild habitat is a rare event indeed.

The deal about wild is in the definition. If someone was cutting woods on that spot sometime in the past and deposited sawdust, would that be wild?

Joshua


--------------------
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Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"


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OfflineSoftRat
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Re: "Wild cyans" w/pics [Re: Joshua]
    #3334211 - 11/08/04 08:43 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I'm not sure! :blush:


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Offlineh2o
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Re: "Wild cyans" w/pics [Re: Joshua]
    #3334217 - 11/08/04 08:45 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

i spoke with the owner today and there has never been alder in that spot. Prior to the black walnut trees introduction almost eighty years ago that spot was an old growth spruce forest.

Additionally, my pigs dug up a spot in the lawn close to the spot they were found. What is underneath is topsoil on top of glacial till....no alder, no wood chips for hundreds of yards.

\m/


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Offlinevc77
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Re: "Wild cyans" w/pics [Re: h2o]
    #3334220 - 11/08/04 08:45 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I found a couple in dirt/mud yesterday, with the only bark nearby being that crappy red stuff (you can see a few chips around the bottom and in the background):



Sorry I forgot macro, the pic sucks but you get the point. :shroomer:


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ich essen die mushmush


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InvisibleJoshua
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Re: "Wild cyans" w/pics [Re: h2o]
    #3334320 - 11/08/04 09:08 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Just because you can't see the substrate, doesn't mean it is not there.

It is possible that the Walnut tree put off enough debris to be used as substrate for the cyanescens. Is it wild if man came in and cleared the forest and planted non-native trees?

I conceed that the location is much more wild than any cyans I have ever found.

Joshua


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"


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Offlineh2o
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Re: "Wild cyans" w/pics [Re: Joshua]
    #3334359 - 11/08/04 09:17 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

ahem.....

there is obviously a substrate there that supports cyanescens, i mean, I found them didn't I? Id have to be a dolt to think there wasn't...

I am telling you that it is not an alder substrate. That fact is contrary to every single thing I've read on this forum except for the girl who posted she finds them 'in the wild' under blackberry bushes.

I would really like to hear from other people who have found cyanescens on substrates consisting of something other decaying alder instead of alot of skeptics intimating I don't know what I'm talking about....ok?

\m/


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OfflinePsilygirl
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Re: "Wild cyans" w/pics [Re: h2o]
    #3334367 - 11/08/04 09:21 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

i think he was saying there is something in that dirt than meets the eye, he's not questioning your intelligence (i.e., definition of a substrate). i found "wild cyans" under some hardwood trees with no human mulch, growing off fallen sticks.

he's not putting you down, just simply posing the question "what exactly IS a wild cyan?" they have vastly filled the "alder chip" ecological niche, but it doesnt mean thats where they originated from.

i dont think anyone knows where they originated from, and thus the question: what is a wild cyan?


--------------------
"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing.' Between the two, my life flows."


Puget Sound Mycological Society


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Offlineh2o
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Re: "Wild cyans" w/pics [Re: Psilygirl]
    #3334391 - 11/08/04 09:27 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

... a valid question, the answer to which may be the key to me finding more of these things 'in the wild' as it were.

There are shit-tons of decaying alder pieces laying all over the woods surrounding my yard, on which there are no cyanescens...I know, I've been looking diligently for them.

If the black walnut is indeed the substrate it is likely a clue as to what other substrates may support cyans in the wild......

......no?

\m/


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OfflinePsilygirl
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Re: "Wild cyans" w/pics [Re: h2o]
    #3334443 - 11/08/04 09:43 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

i think it is belived many types of hardwoods work well for a woodlover substrate...so that would include alder, black walnut and any other hardwood really, for that matter.

i think cyans spread so diligently in alder chips because it was an available, abundant wood mulch to fill its ecological niche.  since that genetic variation thrived so well in alder chips, that is what continues to thrive in abundance today.

i dont think its unreasonable to assume that there are variants which grow from other hardwood chips besides alder, and wild cyans came from those trees' natural woodchips (i.e., fallen decaying branches) back in the day.

i'm sure other cyan/woodlover experts can comment more than i have, this is just my simple rambling opinion! :laugh:


--------------------
"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing.' Between the two, my life flows."


Puget Sound Mycological Society


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OfflineBoognish
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Re: "Wild cyans" w/pics [Re: h2o]
    #3334525 - 11/08/04 10:06 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

found my first cyans ever just outside of portland oregon...growing under blackberry bushes. smaller patch of about 20 ...no woodchips anywhere near the bush..they were growing right along the edge of the blackberry bush..in half grass half decaying wood environment

i was stoked to find em!


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InvisibleJoshua
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Re: "Wild cyans" w/pics [Re: h2o]
    #3334669 - 11/08/04 10:46 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

It is well accepted that cyans can grow from ligneous substrates. That can include anything from grass to woodchips of many hardwood species.

I thought I was clear in my post that I felt it was likely the walnut debris that supported growth.

This is a discussion from my perspective, that is what I was doing. I did not mean to offend your intelligence or ideas, only question them to get a better overall understanding for all of us.

Joshua


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"


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OfflinePeaceBear
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Re: "Wild cyans" w/pics [Re: Boognish]
    #3334701 - 11/08/04 10:52 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

That's great! I'll assume you scoured the area where you found those two for pinners? I found a small patch in between a blackberry bush and a small tree on saturday, didnt appear to be any woodchips or alder of any sort around.

How have you done on the Liberty Caps out there?


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OfflineRebirtha
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Re: "Wild cyans" w/pics [Re: vc77]
    #3334708 - 11/08/04 10:53 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

vc77, how come your avatar says vk77?


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Offlinevc77
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Re: "Wild cyans" w/pics [Re: Rebirtha]
    #3334797 - 11/08/04 11:11 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

It's a C, gangsta style. Look carefully.


--------------------
ich essen die mushmush


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Offlinestinkfish
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Registered: 10/21/04
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Re: "Wild cyans" w/pics [Re: vc77]
    #3335200 - 11/09/04 12:25 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I have found them in wild mixed alder and redwood in northern CA. It IS possible. It was my first time hunting, ever, last year, and I went by accident, but I found them late season IN THE WILD! peace


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Offlineh2o
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Re: "Wild cyans" w/pics [Re: vc77]
    #3335328 - 11/09/04 12:50 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Is there a more specific description of a ligneous substrate than 'woody'?

Should I assume that the type of tree makes a difference? Am I now looking for other black walnut trees in my area or do you think the tree's propensity for calving off limbs may have more to do with it?

I dunno, if cyanescens 'ecological niche' is to break down hardwoods the Forks area would seem to be an ideal place to fulfill it. After sharing my find with someone who has hunted mushies in this area his whole life, he says he runs into patches of cyans 'in the wild' quite frequently. I asked him to let me take pics the next time he finds one so perhaps I'll learn more in the near to immediate future.

Again, your 'I found wild cyanescens' or 'i found cyans on a substrate other an alder chips in Seattle' stories welcome here....

\m/


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OfflinePsilygirl
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Re: "Wild cyans" w/pics [Re: h2o]
    #3335729 - 11/09/04 02:58 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

lignin is a protein found in woody tissue.

it is practically indigestible, other than by termites, woodloving fungi, etc...

does that help?


--------------------
"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing.' Between the two, my life flows."


Puget Sound Mycological Society


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Offlineh2o
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Re: "Wild cyans" w/pics [Re: Psilygirl]
    #3335842 - 11/09/04 03:32 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

no, but thanks for the effort.

ever been to forks? its woody tissue central here.

Looking for cyans in forks with my only clue being 'they like ligneous substrates' would be like looking for a specific drop of water in the ocean with your only clue being 'its in the ocean'.

So what I am getting is the idea that not much is really known about the cyanescens wild habitat, its only really become interesting to people since its psychoactive properties were discovered and that really I'm better off spending more time looking and less time asking questions on the internet.

\m/


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