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OfflineGazzBut
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Corporate pay scales...
    #3332124 - 11/08/04 04:33 AM (12 years, 28 days ago)

I heard a statistic on the TV last night, may not have it completely correct but close enough: 20 years ago executives were paid on average 40 times the salary of the average worker in their company, now they are getting paid 300 times more.

One economist compared our current situation to that of America in the late 20's or even France just before the revolution when the gap in wealth between the middle classes and the super rich was at its most pronounced.

How long can our current society carry on this unjustified widening of the wealth divide? Is it "immoral"?


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Invisiblesir tripsalot
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Re: Corporate pay scales... [Re: GazzBut]
    #3332140 - 11/08/04 04:44 AM (12 years, 28 days ago)

Making comparisons to the way things are going with how France is was a good move, Sure to stir up the masses. :wink:


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OfflineTao
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Registered: 09/19/03
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Re: Corporate pay scales... [Re: GazzBut]
    #3332147 - 11/08/04 04:50 AM (12 years, 28 days ago)

yeah, ive heard that statistic before, its a pretty crazy one that demonstrates the gap between the owners of capital and the workers. are those the exact figures of the statistic by the way?


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Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Corporate pay scales... [Re: Tao]
    #3332169 - 11/08/04 05:10 AM (12 years, 28 days ago)

the 40 times to 300 times were definitely the figures given on the program last night but im not 100% sure on the timescale.


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OfflineTao
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Re: Corporate pay scales... [Re: GazzBut]
    #3332230 - 11/08/04 06:19 AM (12 years, 28 days ago)

heh, i just had political economics tutorial and he mentioned the program there. the statistic he brought up was how when new labour started the richest 1% owned 9% of the wealth, now they own 13%.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Corporate pay scales... [Re: Tao]
    #3332243 - 11/08/04 06:27 AM (12 years, 28 days ago)

Yeah it was an interesting program. They also mentioned how Bush's tax breaks are also heavily favoured towards this highest 1% group.

At one point an excutive was asked straight out whether he was worth his salary. He paused for a couple of seconds and then spewed out some tired rhetoric about general performance improvement. I dont think he could actually bring himself to just say "Yes I am worth every penny of my hugely inflated salary" because I doubt whether he truly believes it himself.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Corporate pay scales... [Re: GazzBut]
    #3332245 - 11/08/04 06:30 AM (12 years, 28 days ago)

So what do you libertarians think about this issue? Do you think it is a good thing for this gap to continue widening? Im not asking you whether there should be some form of intervention to stop it just what your general opinion on the widening wealth divide.


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OfflineTao
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Re: Corporate pay scales... [Re: GazzBut]
    #3332311 - 11/08/04 07:14 AM (12 years, 28 days ago)

what do you think about the proposal that shareholders should be able to determine the salary of ceo's?


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Corporate pay scales... [Re: Tao]
    #3332324 - 11/08/04 07:25 AM (12 years, 28 days ago)

I think that would be a very interesting proposal, although in many companies big chunks of shares can be held by relatively few individuals so I dont think it would neccesarily make any difference to the out of control salaries of the ceo's!!


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Corporate pay scales... [Re: GazzBut]
    #3332499 - 11/08/04 09:26 AM (12 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

So what do you libertarians think about this issue? Do you think it is a good thing for this gap to continue widening?




Speaking as a Laissez-faire Capitalist, I say it's a non-issue. No one's rights have been violated when the director of a given company is paid more money than another candidate of equal skill applying for the position might have accepted.

Speaking as a potential investor in the company in question, I might (or might not) decide against investing if the director's compensation was in my opinion too high a percentage of company revenue.


pinky


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Corporate pay scales... [Re: Phred]
    #3332523 - 11/08/04 09:43 AM (12 years, 28 days ago)

So as far as your concerned the ever widening wealth divide is a non issue?


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Corporate pay scales... [Re: GazzBut]
    #3332531 - 11/08/04 09:51 AM (12 years, 28 days ago)

Yep. At some point salaries for CEOs will stabilize, perhaps even shrink. They can't expand indefinitely. Market forces will decide where that point is. Maybe it's already been reached.

From my perspective it is a political non-issue, an economic non-issue, a moral non-issue, but certainly a factor a potential investor should consider.

pinky


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Corporate pay scales... [Re: Phred]
    #3332629 - 11/08/04 10:53 AM (12 years, 28 days ago)

Well its definitely a political issue seeing as the gap is being increased thanks to tax cuts introduced by Bush.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Corporate pay scales... [Re: GazzBut]
    #3332649 - 11/08/04 11:06 AM (12 years, 28 days ago)

The fact that tax rates in the US today allow CEOs to keep more of their pay than they could previously has nothing whatsoever to do with the issue of whether the pay they are allocated by the company they work for is appropriate. It is not a political issue at all.


pinky


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Corporate pay scales... [Re: Phred]
    #3332657 - 11/08/04 11:08 AM (12 years, 28 days ago)

The wealth divide is being increased by tax breaks etc introduced by the GOVERNMENT of the day therefore it is, at least to a degree, a political issue.


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Anonymous

Re: Corporate pay scales... [Re: GazzBut]
    #3332669 - 11/08/04 11:13 AM (12 years, 28 days ago)

it isn't increased by the tax breaks. it's just not decreased. what leads you to believe that corporate executives are getting paid substantially more as a result of the tax cuts? are you opposed to the tax cuts?


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Corporate pay scales... [Re: ]
    #3332700 - 11/08/04 11:24 AM (12 years, 28 days ago)

The documentary I watched last night indicated that the tax breaks introduced by Bush were much more beneficial to the top 1% earners than to any other group. Obviously I am opposed to people using their position of power to do favours for their buddies at the expense of others.


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Anonymous

Re: Corporate pay scales... [Re: GazzBut]
    #3332713 - 11/08/04 11:30 AM (12 years, 28 days ago)

the prices for every sort of labor, from high-level management all the way down to unskilled labor are set by market forces. a laborer is paid what his work is worth, an executive is paid what his work is worth. i fail to see why there is an ethical dilemma or cause for government intervention here.

Obviously I am opposed to people using their position of power to do favours for their buddies at the expense of others.

that's not what's going on here.


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InvisibleGijith
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Re: Corporate pay scales... [Re: ]
    #3332733 - 11/08/04 11:38 AM (12 years, 28 days ago)

mushmaster,
as a borderline libertarian of sorts, what are your thoughts on minimum wage laws?


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Corporate pay scales... [Re: ]
    #3332746 - 11/08/04 11:43 AM (12 years, 28 days ago)

a laborer is paid what his work is worth

How can a labourer paid cents for making a trainer that is sold for hundreds of dollars be being paid "what his work is worth"?

an executive is paid what his work is worth

Don't be silly. Do you really think executives today are doing so better than they were 20 years ago that they can justify awarding themselves 300 times the average salary as opposed to 40 times the average?

They are making hay while the sun shines. The best policy is to award each other as much money as possible regardless of what your work is worth and squeeze it out of the poorest end. With deliberate government policy to demolish unions and working rights executive pay skyrockets.

Not to mention the endless stories of executives being handsomely rewarded for failure - a concept that has yet to "trickle down" to the average worker..


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