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Offlineaje
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So, who created the laws of physics?
    #3329054 - 11/07/04 12:41 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Well, who did?


I'm listening to a friend of mine telling me a bunch of stuff related to this question. It's actually quite a curious topic so I decided to hear some other points of view on this.


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Offlinephi1618
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Re: So, who created the laws of physics? [Re: aje]
    #3329226 - 11/07/04 01:31 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

People did.

The laws of physics were first immagined by people, then confirmed by observation.



Of course, this doesn't address what I think your fundamental question might be: why is there pattern in the universe?

Beats me :shrug:


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: So, who created the laws of physics? [Re: phi1618]
    #3329297 - 11/07/04 01:58 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

imo they came from obersvations.
"laws" are expressions/representations of reproduceable observations


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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Offlinephi1618
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Re: So, who created the laws of physics? [Re: BleaK]
    #3329341 - 11/07/04 02:15 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Natural laws and all other hypothesis and stories about how the world works spring from the imagination, though they recieve inspiration from observation.

What distinguishes scientific laws from just so stories is the process of eliminating hypothesis, which is based entirely on observation.

If enough observations are made that are inconsistent with the implications of a hypothesis or law, the hypothesis (or law) is discarded; the laws are special in that they have survived rigorous testing.

It is the process of eliminating hypothesis that makes science special, and that is dependant on observation.



Still, I think you and I are in essential agreement that natural laws are essentially man made.


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: So, who created the laws of physics? [Re: phi1618]
    #3329351 - 11/07/04 02:20 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

im just saying they arent really laws... they are not governing forces. they are examples of predictable actions.


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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Offlineaje
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Re: So, who created the laws of physics? [Re: BleaK]
    #3329477 - 11/07/04 03:53 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I think I may have worded the question in a way that I should not have.

I was not thinking of the "laws" themselves, but the physical attributes in the world/universe that are somehow there for us to observe. For me, it seems strange to think of how those physical patterns and such have emerged or appeared and whatnot.


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: So, who created the laws of physics? [Re: aje]
    #3329484 - 11/07/04 03:59 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

it does seem strange..


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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Offlineexclusive58
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Re: So, who created the laws of physics? [Re: BleaK]
    #3329589 - 11/07/04 05:27 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Our universe's DNA?


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OfflineGomp
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Re: So, who created the laws of physics? [Re: exclusive58]
    #3329774 - 11/07/04 09:46 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

""So, who created the laws of physics?""
it is a meme...
:confused: :thumbup:


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: So, who created the laws of physics? [Re: aje]
    #3329780 - 11/07/04 09:52 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Well I think that there are only CERTAIN ways that a Universe like ours CAN work. I also think that our universe, and the laws which govern it, are the product of a SINGLE variable which was set at the beginning of this universe. From that point on, everything has happened they way it has BECAUSE of the state of that variable at the beginning.

Analogy: we live in a house of cards, but one where the whole house sits on top of a single card. That card, its size, location, and orientation, is responsible for the way ALL the cards on top of it sit.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: So, who created the laws of physics? [Re: trendal]
    #3330195 - 11/07/04 05:32 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

The Laws of Physics were passed by a Congressional vote in 1918 by a slim margin of 53%.


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Offlinephi1618
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Re: So, who created the laws of physics? [Re: Swami]
    #3330250 - 11/07/04 05:54 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Why are things the way they are? Why are there any observable patterns in the universe at all?

This is essentially a non-sense question, because it pre-assumes the existance of somthing which is by deffinintion non-existant.

Consider:

- The set of all things which exist is the set of all things which are in the universe.

- If the question above were answered by reference to anything in the universe, the answer would itself constitute a pattern; ie. answering the question "Why do physical laws exist" by explaining known physical laws in terms of more fundamental physical laws is begging the question.

- Since the question cannot be answered by reference to anything which exists, it can only be answered by reference to somthing which doesn't exist; however, a true answer could only refer to somthing which exists.

Therefore, the assumptions made when asking the question are flawed, and the question cannot be answered truthfully.


This is similar to asking, "How old were you when you started sexually abusing minors, aje?"; The question presupposes facts which are not (I hope) in evidence.


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: So, who created the laws of physics? [Re: phi1618]
    #3330271 - 11/07/04 05:59 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Enigma.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: So, who created the laws of physics? [Re: phi1618]
    #3330367 - 11/07/04 06:27 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

"How old were you when you started sexually abusing minors, aje?";

I was 17.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: So, who created the laws of physics? [Re: Swami]
    #3330431 - 11/07/04 06:41 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
"How old were you when you started sexually abusing minors, aje?";

I was 17.




what kept you waiting?  :grin:
:heart:


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Offlinephi1618
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Re: So, who created the laws of physics? [Re: Swami]
    #3330440 - 11/07/04 06:44 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

hehe,
come to think of it, that probably wasn't a good example. :smirk:


How about this,
"how old were you when you started sleeping with your mom, aje?"

There, that should do it.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: So, who created the laws of physics? [Re: aje]
    #3330450 - 11/07/04 06:46 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Oh come on everyone knows that...it was that wheelchair guy right?


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: So, who created the laws of physics? [Re: phi1618]
    #3330466 - 11/07/04 06:50 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

"how old were you when you started sleeping with your mom, aje?"

About the time when my DMT-gland formed and activated my consciousness, and started consciously sleeping with my mother - in the womb - so approx. -3 months?

:wink:


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Offlinephi1618
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Re: So, who created the laws of physics? [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #3330481 - 11/07/04 06:54 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Goddammit! :mad2:
I give up.


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Invisiblebuttonion
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Re: So, who created the laws of physics? [Re: phi1618]
    #3331330 - 11/07/04 11:00 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, I think I'm with you, but I think of it from a slightly different perspective. Like you said, asking the question, "Why are things how they are?" is begging the question or paradoxical. Any attempt to try to account for our most fundamental assumptions of objective reality (time, space, quantity, objects) necessarily must assume their existence. It's like "I think therefore I am." Prior to "inferring" your conclusion (I am), you have already assumed your own existence ("I" think).

What did you mean here though?

Quote:

Therefore, the assumptions made when asking the question are flawed, and the question cannot be answered truthfully.





Did you mean validly? If not, how does one know when one has answered a question truthfully?


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Concepts which have been proved to be useful in ordering things easily acquire such an authority over us that we forget their human origins and accept them as invariable.- Albert Einstein


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