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OfflineTao
Village Genius

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
Loc: San Diego
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
What happened?
    #3327804 - 11/06/04 03:59 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I am interested in people's thoughts as to why the Democrats lost the election and what they need to do next time.

Was it Kerry? Is the problem finding a good candidate?

Is it the domination by Republicans of so-called moral issues and the resulting religious vote?

Was it simply a case of Bush being a wartime president and not enough were convinced enough to jump ship in the middle of it (combined with the omnipresent 'incumbency advantage'?

Is it the fragmentation and lack of a clear message of what the Democratic party stands for? Not giving a clear reason why to vote Democrat?

Any other reasons?

and please leave the reasoning "because bush fradulently stole the election through electronic voting machines" and other conspiracy arguments for the other 999 threads about it on the board.


--------------------
Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:


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Invisibleretread
-=HasH=-
Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 851
Re: What happened? [Re: Tao]
    #3327867 - 11/06/04 04:19 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

You lost.

Kerry sucks.


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Invisibleusefulidiot
It's notfascist, it's...Neoconservative!

Registered: 11/21/02
Posts: 732
Re: What happened? [Re: Tao]
    #3327869 - 11/06/04 04:19 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

kerry knew he was in this farce of an election to lose - america is over

notice all the vote fraud and shadyness in the whole election, he's not even putting up a fight


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OfflineTao
Village Genius

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
Loc: San Diego
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
Re: What happened? [Re: usefulidiot]
    #3327884 - 11/06/04 04:25 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

a lame taunt and more conspiracy theory garbage, this thread is off to an awesome-o start :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


--------------------
Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:


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Invisibleusefulidiot
It's notfascist, it's...Neoconservative!

Registered: 11/21/02
Posts: 732
Re: What happened? [Re: Tao]
    #3327898 - 11/06/04 04:30 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

ok, so why do you think kerry isn't putting up a fight or showing any concern for the legitimacy of an obviously fraudulent election? what would you want your candidate to do in such a situation?


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Offlinephi1618
old hand

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 7 years, 18 days
Re: What happened? [Re: Tao]
    #3327904 - 11/06/04 04:31 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

The official story, as I understand it:

The Republicans have been gaining momentum for many years, by following a strategy of grass-roots organizing and direct mailing campaigns aimed at their supporters. By engaging and commiting rank-and-file republicans, the Republicans started with an advantage over the Democrats.

Bush did a fairly good job in motivating some Democrats, young people and minorities, especially, to vote. However, he did an even better job of getting a hyper-motivated minority of religious people to vote.

The vote of people motivated by religious issues (the sanctity of marriage, abortion) combined with the greater financial resources and better party organization of the Republicans led to Bush's victory.



There's two ways the Democrats can come back.

Either the Republicans fuck shit up in a seriously major way,
or the Democrats can change their party organization to be more responsive to and involved with their constituants. Political organizations need to be active during non-election times in order to be ready for election years, and rank and file party memebers need to feel committed to the cause.


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Invisibleusefulidiot
It's notfascist, it's...Neoconservative!

Registered: 11/21/02
Posts: 732
Re: What happened? [Re: phi1618]
    #3327909 - 11/06/04 04:33 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

go hillary!


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InvisibleGijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
Re: What happened? [Re: Tao]
    #3327921 - 11/06/04 04:35 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

It's Kerry.
The democrats had a rough field to pick from this year. And they chose one of the worst options from that field. Even leading up to Iowa, they should have realized Kerry was having identity issues similar to what Gore went through in 2000.

The democrats are always going to have be meticulous about who they pick. As you can see by our current president, the republicans don't really have this problem.

There have already been some good threads outlining some very basic guidelines democrats can follow in picking their 2008 candidate. Hopefully, prospective candidates, DNC brass, or at least some primary states lefties are also Shroomerites.


--------------------
what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: What happened? [Re: Tao]
    #3327931 - 11/06/04 04:36 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Did you NOT read my earlier post wherein some 60+% of Bush supporters had 6 out of 8 issues completey wrong? This form of ignorance is very scary and quite telling.

For example: these supporters thought Bush was more popular with our allies in 2004 than in 2000 and that Saddam was part of the twin tower attack.

It is one thing to support Bush; it is quite another to support him while having the facts wrong.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinephi1618
old hand

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 7 years, 18 days
Re: What happened? [Re: usefulidiot]
    #3327940 - 11/06/04 04:38 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:


go hillary!




:confused:
:wtf:


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InvisibleGijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
Re: What happened? [Re: usefulidiot]
    #3327941 - 11/06/04 04:38 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

usefulidiot said:
go hillary!




I really hope you're being sarcastic.

Her running in 2008 would result in one of the most one sided elections in history. I can count on one hand the number of states that would vote for her.


--------------------
what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?


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Invisibleusefulidiot
It's notfascist, it's...Neoconservative!

Registered: 11/21/02
Posts: 732
Re: What happened? [Re: Gijith]
    #3327955 - 11/06/04 04:42 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Hillary http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/11/3/82051.shtml

VS.

Arnold http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/28/60minutes/main652046.shtml

???

This is what they are discussing. Like I said, America is over.


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Offlinephi1618
old hand

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 7 years, 18 days
Re: What happened? [Re: Swami]
    #3327957 - 11/06/04 04:42 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Swami:

That really has nothing to do with the specific question that tao asked.

If Republicans voted for bush because they were misinformed, the question becomes:
"If they had the facts, would that have changed the outcome? Why were they confused?"


Just knowing that many republicans don't know certain things that are probably true doesn't answer the question:
what can Democrats do to come back from the terrible situation they are now in?


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Invisibleusefulidiot
It's notfascist, it's...Neoconservative!

Registered: 11/21/02
Posts: 732
Re: What happened? [Re: phi1618]
    #3327963 - 11/06/04 04:44 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

what can Democrats do to come back from the terrible situation they are now in?




they can't do anything. there is no choice.


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OfflineTao
Village Genius

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
Loc: San Diego
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
Re: What happened? [Re: phi1618]
    #3327966 - 11/06/04 04:45 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

here is an article trying to debunk the argument that the ultra-religious swayed the election:

http://nytimes.com/2004/11/06/opinion/06brooks.html?hp

(registration is free and simple if you arent registered already)

so do you think that the left needs to galvanize its base more or capture more swing voters?


--------------------
Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:


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Offlinephi1618
old hand

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 7 years, 18 days
Re: What happened? [Re: usefulidiot]
    #3327968 - 11/06/04 04:45 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

usefulidiot said:
Hillary http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/11/3/82051.shtml

VS.

Arnold http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/28/60minutes/main652046.shtml

???

This is what they are discussing. Like I said, America is over.





The next election isn't for 4 years. There is no guarentee (or even believable indication) that these people will run.


Plus, even if the Democratic party is up shit creek right now, America is probably not "over".


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Invisibleusefulidiot
It's notfascist, it's...Neoconservative!

Registered: 11/21/02
Posts: 732
Re: What happened? [Re: phi1618]
    #3327973 - 11/06/04 04:47 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

your right, things can still change on the surface of it all..but unfortunately, america was over a long time ago.


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OfflineTao
Village Genius

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
Loc: San Diego
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
Re: What happened? [Re: Swami]
    #3327974 - 11/06/04 04:48 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

an interesting point. i guess im just adverse to calling the opposing side simply ignorant, but maybe thats the case due to the inherent manufacturing-consent way of mainstream media. or maybe the increasing fracturing of media sources leads people to seek news from those places that tell them what they want to hear (i.e. fox news and talk radio for conservatives).

so what do you think should have been done? did the democrats not do a good enough job hammering home what the facts were?


--------------------
Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:


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OfflineTao
Village Genius

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
Loc: San Diego
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
Re: What happened? [Re: Gijith]
    #3327983 - 11/06/04 05:18 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

right now my thinking is (and has been for several months) that kerry was a very poor choice from a weak field regardless. he was too stiff and unenergetic, that low hallowing voice. combine that with the fact he was a senator with votes that could be spun with bush's $300 million to mean anything and a northeast liberal, and his only shot was hoping bush had sufficiently shot himself in the foot.

i think most see now that hilary would be the worst possible choice, she embodies a lot of whats wrong with the democratic party. plus, again, she's a senator.

Quote:

There have already been some good threads outlining some very basic guidelines democrats can follow in picking their 2008 candidate.



which threads are you referring to?


--------------------
Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:


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InvisibleGijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
Re: What happened? [Re: Tao]
    #3328017 - 11/06/04 05:29 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I thought output's post had some solid ideas:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3317170/an/0/page/0

And, to a lesser extent:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3319526/an/0/page/1


For some reason I thought there was another one.


--------------------
what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?


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