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OfflineJuggles
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Registered: 02/08/01
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Possible way around contaminated shrooms?
    #332545 - 06/02/01 07:07 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

OK... Here's my problem, I think I may have conatminated cakes. And although the mycelium is still growing, and I'm pretty sure I'll be able to produce mushies I'm afraid that whatever the contam is that's growing on the cakes might cause the shrooms to be poisonous. Now here's my question. Do you think that if I did a psilocybin extraction on the shooms I could safely injest the resulting extract without fear of toxins from the contam? Since the point of the extraction is to extract only the psilocybin from the rest of the mushroom? Also if that would work would this be an acceptable extraction method?
http://www.fanaticus.com/liqueu~1.htm
Thanks in advance for your replys. :)

--------------------------------------------------------------
Do you know the muffin man?
The muffin man?
The muffin man!
Yes, I know the muffin man... Who lives on strawberry lane?

Edited by Juggles on 06/02/01 07:09 PM.



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InvisibleIneedHitsPLEASE
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Re: Possible way around contaminated shrooms? [Re: Juggles]
    #332646 - 06/02/01 10:23 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Im new at this and learning as well,but if I was in your situation here is how I would handle it.I woud let the cakes finish colinizing,Then case them.This wa you could see inside the cakes to see how deep the contam got or even if it lived.Iftheir are no signs of it then the mycelumm killed it and nothing to worry about.If it is bad either dont use it or if its a small section cut around it.Maybe casing those seperate just incase the cotam returned.
That is just what I would do though.As far as the extraction,I would think that if you had a pure enough extraction method you wouldnt have to worry about any kind of contams.

"From the pricking of my thumbs,something wicked this way comes"


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OfflineAzure
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Registered: 01/01/99
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Re: Possible way around contaminated shrooms? [Re: Juggles]
    #334721 - 06/05/01 01:32 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Ethyl alcohol is a solvent. That is, it dissolves the soluble components in your mushrooms. Once everything is dissolved, you throw away the solid(the powder at the bottom) and keep the supernatant, or liquid above the solid. You evaporate the liquid and the resulting solid is concentrated psilocybin. Here's the problem-you're not only dissolving psilocybin but also a bunch of other compounds and molecules. If it were uncontaminated mushrooms, you wouldn't care. But in your case, provided the contaminant is toxic, your extract would have the poison in it as well. Whether your mushrooms are poisonous to start off with is debatable.



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Offlinenononsense
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Re: Possible way around contaminated shrooms? [Re: Azure]
    #334819 - 06/05/01 02:50 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

You don't know what poison you have you also don't know if it's extracted!!! Be very carefull!

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OfflineJuggles
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Re: Possible way around contaminated shrooms? [Re: nononsense]
    #335551 - 06/05/01 10:20 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

geez.. and I'm not sure wether or not these are contaminated.. but I think they are, because they smell kind of like yogurt... Maybe I could feed them to my cat first? And if she doesn't get sick I'll eat them? J/K ;)

--------------------------------------------------------------
Do you know the muffin man?
The muffin man?
The muffin man!
Yes, I know the muffin man... Who lives on strawberry lane?

Edited by Juggles on 06/05/01 10:22 PM.



--------------------
---
If sometimes you feel yourself little, useless, and depressed, always remember that you were once the fastest and most victorious sperm out of hundreds of millions.


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Invisibleearl
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Re: Possible way around contaminated shrooms? [Re: Juggles]
    #340278 - 06/14/01 01:31 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

If a healthy mushroom develops even amidst contaminants, why should it be poisonous? They don't grow in sterile conditions in the wild, after all.

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Offlinenononsense
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Re: Possible way around contaminated shrooms? [Re: earl]
    #340329 - 06/14/01 02:52 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

good point, if you believe it's safe go ahead, but I wouldn't do it!

_________________________________________
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_________________________________________
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OfflineNagual
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Re: Possible way around contaminated shrooms? [Re: earl]
    #340912 - 06/14/01 09:28 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

<<<If a healthy mushroom develops even amidst contaminants, why should it be
poisonous? They don't grow in sterile conditions in the wild, after all.>>>

In the wild the mushrooms grow where the environment is just right for them; you dont find mushrooms where they're unable to grow.. the problem starts when we try to mimic nature in a tupperware container far from the forest floor or the hills of Mexico.. It's kinda like the first white man in America sneezing on an Indian and introducing a brand new -and totally UNPREDICTABLE- disease; so we're the white men and magick mushrooms are the Indians. Love your shroomies guys.. they're very special.

o0O)}>there is no real death, life is only a dream and we are the imagination of ourselves<{(O0o

Edited by Nagual on 06/14/01 09:32 PM.



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OfflineNagual
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Re: Possible way around contaminated shrooms? [Re: Nagual]
    #341272 - 06/15/01 09:28 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

It'd actually be more accurate to say that the foreign agent -white man- is the home of the self appointed entheo-mycologist, and the indigenous peoples -Indians- is the feild of entheomycology which a person could spend an entire lifetime studying and still be a "newbie" in the sence that there is ALWAYS a next step, a higher plateau (and who wants to be an "oldbie" anyway). It seems like this internet resource has developed into a sort of high school "click" with people taking credit and putting down and sucking up.. like the basic WONDER and BEAUTY of what's going on is lost on most of us; i'm new to this net cubensis community myself and i'm soooooo excited to grow. Oh well. Good luck everyone.

o0O)}>there is no real death, life is only a dream and we are the imagination of ourselves<{(O0o


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Offlineegghead
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Re: Possible way around contaminated shrooms? [Re: earl]
    #341276 - 06/15/01 09:35 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

earl.. In nature, successful mycelia has many allies and a growth-friendly environment. In a controlled environment, it's just mycelia vs contam and the environment can be just as friendly or even more so for the contam than for the mycelia. Also, if you found a shroom in the wild growing by a clump of purple mold, would you eat it?

Growing shrooms is easy. Just toss out contam and try to learn from your mistakes. Better to develop a contaminant free technique than to work on contam recovery strategies.



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InvisibleBillyblastoff
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Re: Possible way around contaminated shrooms? [Re: egghead]
    #341396 - 06/15/01 12:59 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I did 12 pint jars and I have 3 jars that have 2 different types of a "green contam" which I described in another post in this forum. My question is "Has anyone positively identified any of these "molds/contams" and their toxicity levels? I think that would probably give you a much better idea of whether it would be safe to eat these shrooms or not. I am pretty sure that one of the molds I have is common "bread mold" from which most of us know the antibiotic penicillin was derived from. I think a clump of BRF or the jar itself didn't get sterilized properly hence the mold, also this small area of mold did not get any bigger and it looks like the mycelium will eventually overrun it. If this is bread mold "how dangerous can it be?" Which leads me to ask why do we have this new forum if not to positively identify these contams and seperate the harmless from the toxic? Im not a bacteriologist or a mycologist so obviously I could not positively identify these molds/contams but I do have a computer and i even have a toy microscope and would be happy to do my own research into the area but not being a professional in any of these areas I would not feel qualified to post any definite findings. One final comment I think the least we can do with these contamed casings is at the very least we could use them to make spore prints can't we?, so if your not gonna "eat em, print em....", (that idea was given to me by 40oz, thanx my friend)




Tell me something good then I might agree with you..


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Invisibleearl
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Re: Possible way around contaminated shrooms? [Re: egghead]
    #341814 - 06/15/01 11:25 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

First of all the disclaimer: I don't claim to be an expert on mushroom cultivation- I'm sure you know way more than I do about it. I do know something about biology in general though.
I also totally agree that it's better to develop a contam-free technique than to try work-arounds.
My point was that a healthy mushroom is a healthy mushroom. If the contaminants kill or injure the shroom, that should be noticeable and, no I wouldn't eat that one. If the shroom was healthy though, I don't see what the harm would be. That's all.
If anyone knows for a fact that an apparently healthy mushroom (of a known species) may harbour invisible toxins because it grew in the same area as other species, I'd love to read about it. Thanks.

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my cat's breath smells like catfood


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Offlineegghead
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Re: Possible way around contaminated shrooms? [Re: earl]
    #341909 - 06/16/01 01:46 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

haha.. No expert either.. Would be surprised to hear of any uptake of toxins into fruitbodies, especially healthy looking ones. As you suggest, the risk in consuming a healthy fruit is probably very small.

Come on experts (Suntzu) give us the nitty gritty on this. Can a healthy fruit harbor pathogens?



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OfflinePsilowarrior
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Re: Possible way around contaminated shrooms? [Re: egghead]
    #342204 - 06/16/01 03:31 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I'm not so sure that I follow your logic guys. The world of biology is also full of examples of organisms growing in poluted or contaminated environments that when ingested cause problems. Think of fish caught in dioxin contaminated water. Let me ask this. Would you be willing to eat any mushroom that was growing next to a deadly poisonous one? Unlikely situation I know. But if you were sure that in general the mushroom is safe but, wow, here it is growng next to a deadly mushroom, would you eat it. Would you even take the chance.




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Offlineegghead
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Re: Possible way around contaminated shrooms? [Re: Psilowarrior]
    #342209 - 06/16/01 03:38 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

No, I would not take the chance. However, as earl pointed out, it's probably safe to eat healthy fruitbodies. The fish in dioxin water, do they appear healthy?

The point is that if the fruit is diseased, there will be some sort of physical manifestation. Dark blotches, rotting, poor crop development, something..



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Invisibleearl
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Re: Possible way around contaminated shrooms? [Re: Psilowarrior]
    #342534 - 06/17/01 12:25 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

You won't be poisoned by eating a fish that lived in the same tank as a puffer fish.
You may very well be poisoned by eating a mushroom that grew in a BRF/Verm/Dioxin substrate. ;-)

I suspect the truth lies somewhere between these two examples, as the toxins that make certain organisms poisonous are not the same type of chemical as dioxin and may or may not diffuse into the medium and may or may not be absorbed into neighboring edible shrooms. This is the real question, I think, and I'd love it if anyone here had a definitive answer. I'm going to do some reading and if I find anything interesting, I'll post it here.

peace

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Offlinenononsense
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Re: Possible way around contaminated shrooms? [Re: egghead]
    #343211 - 06/18/01 02:17 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

In reply to:

Growing shrooms is easy. Just toss out contam and try to learn from your mistakes. Better to develop a contaminant free technique than to work on contam recovery strategies.




I agree with egghead on this!!! Very good point!!!



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Edited by nononsense on 06/18/01 02:18 AM.



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Offlinenononsense
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Re: Possible way around contaminated shrooms? [Re: egghead]
    #343220 - 06/18/01 02:23 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

In reply to:

Come on experts (Suntzu) give us the nitty gritty on this. Can a healthy fruit harbor pathogens?




As some pathogenic bacteria and fungi produce toxins, and some bacteria are toxic themselves the risk of getting a fatal dose is higher when you see that contams are present.
The fact that the toxins can be present without the bacteria or fungi (becuase you killed them with H2O2) lies in the fact that the toxins are shitted out by the bacteria before you killed them. So if this toxin is on your shrooms, or in the water you moisten your casings with, and the shrooms suck up the toxins I believe you get very ill!



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_________________________________________
I support the go.to/FreeSporeRing
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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Possible way around contaminated shrooms? [Re: Juggles]
    #343936 - 06/18/01 11:21 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

i know a guy who had a cake that had green molds, as well as a spotty red shit on it, but the mycelium overtook this shit, he fruited it, and the fruits were all consumed with no problems what so ever.!



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Offlinenononsense
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Re: Possible way around contaminated shrooms? [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #344048 - 06/19/01 01:15 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

You alway's have a chance that you don't have pathogenic m.o. in your substrate but just some non-pathogenic. But as you don't know what bacteria you have unless you make a clear colonie and do some typical reactions, like peroxide (some have peroxidase, some don't) you can't be sure if it's pathogenic.

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I support the go.to/FreeSporeRing


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_________________________________________
I support the go.to/FreeSporeRing
Email me at [email]nononsense@shroomery.org[/email


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