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Offlinespliffmasta
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Does WBS need to be PCd?
    #3325393 - 11/05/04 06:59 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I have all of my gear except for a pressure cooker, and I am planning on casing so I don't want to use rye. Well, I don't get paid for another 2 weeks and I can't find anyone around with a PC (I'm at college, I wouldn't expect to).
A) Does WBS carry the absolute necessity of pressure cooked sterilization as does grain?
B) Am I going to be looking at a cut in yields between these two types of substrates (going from grain to WBS)?


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Offlineazurescens
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Re: Does WBS need to be PCd? [Re: spliffmasta]
    #3325401 - 11/05/04 07:01 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Yes...you need to pc it if you want success. I dont think that you'll notice that much of a difference in yield between the 2 although I have seen better results with grain but only minimally.


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Offlinespliffmasta
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Re: Does WBS need to be PCd? [Re: azurescens]
    #3325403 - 11/05/04 07:02 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Thank you  :thumbup:


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InvisibleKlingonFromUranus
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Re: Does WBS need to be PCd? [Re: spliffmasta]
    #3325409 - 11/05/04 07:05 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

wbs IS grain. Just cheap grain. Follow the same instructions with wbs as you would with other grains. PC that shit. You must.


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Offlinespliffmasta
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Re: Does WBS need to be PCd? [Re: spliffmasta]
    #3325411 - 11/05/04 07:05 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Are there any good yielding substrates that are good for casing that don't have to be PC'd?  :grin:


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InvisibleKlingonFromUranus
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Re: Does WBS need to be PCd? [Re: spliffmasta]
    #3325449 - 11/05/04 07:22 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Yes! PF tek:thumbup: Look it up bro. Brown rice flour and vermiculite. Has all the materials you need. All your have to do is boil it. Just look up "PF tek" GL


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Edited by KlingonFromUranus (11/05/04 07:23 PM)


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Offlinespliffmasta
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Re: Does WBS need to be PCd? [Re: KlingonFromUranus]
    #3325888 - 11/05/04 09:30 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Yea but BRF won't spread as well/even as a grain would for casing right? And also the yields would be noticably less right?


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OfflineKaptKid
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Re: Does WBS need to be PCd? [Re: spliffmasta]
    #3325994 - 11/05/04 10:00 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

spliffmasta said:
Yea but BRF won't spread as well/even as a grain would for casing right? And also the yields would be noticably less right?




With grain you can produce twice as much in the same period of time.
An't that cool :thumbup:


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Child of the 60's, Tripping ever since.


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Offlinediscman1
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Re: Does WBS need to be PCd? [Re: KaptKid]
    #3326110 - 11/05/04 10:43 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

If BRF jars can be boiled, so can grain jars....

You just have to apply some common sense. The jars are bigger, so naturally it is going to take longer for the jar and substrate to become heated through and through.

Just get a big pot with a tight fitting lid, make a rack and go to town. Boil for 2 hours if you're paranoid.


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Offlinephantasm
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Re: Does WBS need to be PCd? [Re: discman1]
    #3326114 - 11/05/04 10:45 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

yeah i only use WBS now and i just boil it and tadaa no contamns

-mike


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Only God Grows Amanita Muscaria


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Offlineaussieone
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Re: Does WBS need to be PCd? [Re: phantasm]
    #3326126 - 11/05/04 10:52 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

>>If BRF jars can be boiled, so can grain jars....

Not true, BRF cakes are fine to be boiled becuase all germs will be killed of at 100C. Grains harbour tough endospores which can survive this, this is why a PC is needed becuase the temp they get up to is 121C which is sufficient to kill the endospores.

I think there are different methods for boiling the grain jars repeatedly to kill the spores or something :shrug:


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Offlinespliffmasta
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Re: Does WBS need to be PCd? [Re: aussieone]
    #3326134 - 11/05/04 10:58 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Yea, I've read about the fractional sterilization thing.
So you've boiled WBS and had success with that?


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Offlinediscman1
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Re: Does WBS need to be PCd? [Re: aussieone]
    #3326149 - 11/05/04 11:08 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

aussieone said:
>>If BRF jars can be boiled, so can grain jars....

Not true, BRF cakes are fine to be boiled becuase all germs will be killed of at 100C. Grains harbour tough endospores which can survive this, this is why a PC is needed becuase the temp they get up to is 121C which is sufficient to kill the endospores.

I think there are different methods for boiling the grain jars repeatedly to kill the spores or something :shrug:


I'm sure that's true, but it's probably not true 100% of the time.

Why couldn't BRF be harboring those same contams? It's just a ground grain. What if you ground your own BRF, would it need to be PC'd? Doesen't quite add up.

Anyway, this is also an agument for soaking your grains. It will let those heat resistant endospores germinate, where they are more susceptible to heat.

It's certainly not optimal, a PC is always best.. but sometimes you have to use what you've got. Boil for 2-3 hours if you're paranoid......


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Offlineaussieone
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Re: Does WBS need to be PCd? [Re: discman1]
    #3326156 - 11/05/04 11:12 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

sure you might have some luck with boiling it, but if it worked all the time why do people use PC??


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Offlinephantasm
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Re: Does WBS need to be PCd? [Re: aussieone]
    #3326207 - 11/05/04 11:54 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

because a pc will work better and is easier to manageand more precise than keeping a pot at boil also pccing takes less time

boiling works fine as long as you do it right

-mike


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Offlinecisole
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Re: Does WBS need to be PCd? [Re: spliffmasta]
    #3326284 - 11/06/04 12:37 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I would definitely wait for the PC, I have tried boiling grains in the past and they all ended up contaminating...

when you PC the grains at 15 PSI like you should they are cooked at over 240 degreees, wich kills all the endospores in the grains...

so PC all the way!


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is it life that keeps us going, or us that keeps life going?


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Offlinespliffmasta
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Re: Does WBS need to be PCd? [Re: cisole]
    #3326329 - 11/06/04 01:16 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

So many mixed opinions, I'm waitin...Thanks guys!


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InvisibleMykro_Guy
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Re: Does WBS need to be PCd? [Re: discman1]
    #3326420 - 11/06/04 01:52 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

discman1 said:
I'm sure that's true, but it's probably not true 100% of the time.

Why couldn't BRF be harboring those same contams? It's just a ground grain. What if you ground your own BRF, would it need to be PC'd? Doesen't quite add up.

Anyway, this is also an agument for soaking your grains. It will let those heat resistant endospores germinate, where they are more susceptible to heat.

It's certainly not optimal, a PC is always best.. but sometimes you have to use what you've got. Boil for 2-3 hours if you're paranoid......




WTF is this cat talking about?? ground your own brf??the reason why it wouldnt harbor the same contams it cuz its flour (BRF) and WBS isnt just grain... last time i checked you couldnt germinate brown rice into a sprout... where not talking about the basic food parimid here

boiling WBS for long periods of time causes then to dry out.. you can run you moms chicken pot at 112 deg for 2 hours or as long as you want but you wont reach the 200 zone needed to STREIALIZE YOUR GRAIN if you really want to try grain without PCing .... "fractional sterilization" it requires you to warm up your moms put 3 dirreft times... youd be way better off doing BRF and casing.. youll get nice yield pretty close to grains minus the fast colonization


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Offlinecisole
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Re: Does WBS need to be PCd? [Re: spliffmasta]
    #3326484 - 11/06/04 02:13 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

well think about this...

even if boiling could possibly take care of contaminants, which it most cases it doesnt...

its worth the extra care to PC everything regardless, I believe in PC'ing everything...

dont take the chance, PC!!!!


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is it life that keeps us going, or us that keeps life going?


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Offlinediscman1
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Re: Does WBS need to be PCd? [Re: Mykro_Guy]
    #3326644 - 11/06/04 03:49 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Mykro_Guy said:
Quote:

discman1 said:
I'm sure that's true, but it's probably not true 100% of the time.

Why couldn't BRF be harboring those same contams? It's just a ground grain. What if you ground your own BRF, would it need to be PC'd? Doesen't quite add up.

Anyway, this is also an agument for soaking your grains. It will let those heat resistant endospores germinate, where they are more susceptible to heat.

It's certainly not optimal, a PC is always best.. but sometimes you have to use what you've got. Boil for 2-3 hours if you're paranoid......




WTF is this cat talking about?? ground your own brf??the reason why it wouldnt harbor the same contams it cuz its flour (BRF)  and WBS isnt just grain...    last time i checked you couldnt germinate brown rice into a sprout...  where not talking about the basic food parimid here

boiling WBS for long periods of time causes then to dry out.. you can run you moms chicken pot at 112 deg for 2 hours or as long as you want but you wont reach the 200 zone needed to STREIALIZE YOUR GRAIN  if you really want to try grain without PCing .... "fractional sterilization"  it requires you to warm up your moms put 3 dirreft times... youd be way better off doing BRF and casing.. youll get nice yield pretty close to grains minus the fast colonization


Uh.. WTF are you talking about? You sound somewbat intelligent.. Are you telling me you've never heard of people buying whole brown rice and grinding it up in a coffee grinder? Sorry for the attack, but your tone annoyed me.

Are you also telling me that you think water boils at 112?F?

What does whether the grain will germinate or not have anything to do with it? Basic food pyramid? You've lost me......

If the jars dry out after long periods of boiling, add a little more water at the beginning.

What is the difference between whole brown rice and WBS or rye berries? Why couldn't BRF be harboring the same heat-resistant contaminants that grain can? It doesen't make any sense.

Again, the temperature of steam is 212?F. That is enough to kill most things. Not all, but most. Obviously none of us know exactly what is contaminating our raw grains, I am sure it varies dramatically depending on where the grains are from, how they're processed and stored, etc.. Let's use some common sense here.

Sure, the +40?F seen inside a pressure cooker is more effective, but some of you make it out to be impossible, which it is certainly not. If you need to use fractional sterilization, then that is fine. It kinda validates my point.

I'm not advocating the use of boiling instead of a PC, but some people have expressed that there are indeed ways to do it without a PC, and that it has worked for them.

Next time I make a WBS jar, I'm going to boil it just to smite this thread.  :rolleyes:


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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Brown Rice Flour, Herb Grinder, Pressure Cooker, Rye Grain, Vermiculite, Wild Bird Seed

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