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 Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
 
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 Carlos Castaneda 
#3324285 - 11/05/04 11:46 AM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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http://www.castaneda.org/
It can be verified very easily by lending one's whole body instead of only one's intellect. One cannot enter don Juan's world intellectually, like a dilettante seeking fast and fleeting knowledge. Nor, in don Juan's world, can anything be verified absolutely. The only thing we can do is arrive at a state of increased awareness that allows us to perceive the world around us in a more inclusive manner. In other words, the goal of don Juan's shamanism is to break the parameters of historical and daily perception and to perceive the unknown. That's why he called himself a navigator of infinity. He asserted that infinity lies beyond the parameters of daily perception. To break these parameters was the aim of his life. Because he was an extraordinary shaman, he instilled that same desire in all four of us. He forced us to transcend the intellect and to embody the concept of breaking the boundaries of historical perception.
it can? :P
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Gomp]
#3324400 - 11/05/04 12:15 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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"... Turn everything into what it really is: the abstract, the spirit, the nagual." don Juan Matus
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 Sclorch
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Registered: 07/12/99
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 Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Gomp]
#3324518 - 11/05/04 12:40 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Search the archives on this man...
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Gomp
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Sclorch]
#3324563 - 11/05/04 12:55 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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tank for 'reminding' me 
""What a shaman like don Juan wants is to increase awareness, that is, to be able to perceive with all the human possibilities of perception""
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Gomp]
#3324595 - 11/05/04 01:08 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Gomp, slorch means, the board has decided for all of us castenada is a fraud. I think he's just an interesting day tripper. I don't know what they are talking about.
I think his book the Art of Dreaming rocked!
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Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Jellric
altered statesman
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Gomp]
#3324664 - 11/05/04 01:24 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Gomp, Swami should be along to help you shortly..
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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.
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Gomp
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Jellric]
#3324694 - 11/05/04 01:35 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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hehe. fraud or no fraud, could it matter?
""The world is not an illusion, as it has been said to be; it's real on the one hand, and unreal on the other. Pay close attention to this, for it must be understood, not just accepted.We perceive. This is a hard fact. But what we perceive is not a fact of the same kind, because we learn what to perceive. ""
hehe 
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Edited by Gomp (11/05/04 01:40 PM)
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Sclorch
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Quote:
gettinjiggywithit said:
Gomp, slorch means, the board has decided for all of us castenada is a fraud. I think he's just an interesting day tripper. I don't know what they are talking about.
Don't put words in my mouth, guy. 
I'm just saying that this topic has been covered MANY MANY times over. And that Gomp should check out all that first and come back with something new.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Sclorch]
#3324781 - 11/05/04 02:06 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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true true sorry
he has come up alot and most of what one finds in the archives is followed with castenada being called a fraud and it said all of his work should be disregarded.
Those are my words and I'm giving gomp a heads up. If I thought wrong about your reply to him, it was because I wonder why you wouldn't encourage new postings on him for other newbies to share fresh perspectives on his work.
More can be said and shared then what has been. I thought your posting your reply was your way of saying, don't bother posting about castenada, read about him being a fraud.
If I was wrong I am wrong, my apologeez
Sclorch, what do you think of Castenada?
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Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Sclorch
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I think he has alot of fans. I think he'd have just as many fans (but less critics) if he had presented his work as the fiction that it is. A truth in a fairy tale is still a truth.
I don't know exactly why he felt he needed to present his stories as he did, but it naturally serves as a deterrent for those who prefer a distinct line between reality and fantasy.
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deff
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Sclorch]
#3324837 - 11/05/04 02:20 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Or people who desire to CREATE a line between reality and fantasy, a line which does not exist otherwise
I'm sure it's probably been covered here before - but what exactly was the proof behind labelling his work as absolute fiction?
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Gomp
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Sclorch]
#3324842 - 11/05/04 02:21 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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"if you feel you are not being taken seriously, stop taking you self so seriously" - unknown :P
"if the see you as incomprehensible, let them know what incomprehensible is, an then let them do the judge"
-unknown :P
"a way of showing people what is true, is by refusing them to see it"
-unknow:p
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Sclorch
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: deff]
#3324870 - 11/05/04 02:29 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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If there is a significant amount of untruthfulness in a book, most authors designate it as fiction (see: Jack Kerouac's On The Road or Ken Kesey's One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest - both of these books contained events that actually happened in both of the author's lives).
Proof? I don't recall... I didn't really care then or now.
But it's like the Bible... or Terrance Mckenna... everyone seems to want to literally translate everything. If you take this road, know that there will be people who will throw doubt in your path. They're not there to tell you what IS true... they're just there to smooth out the differences (though it's usually not percieved this way).
The line between reality and fantasy definitely exists... the problem is determining exactly where it lies and how clear it is.
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Sclorch
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Gomp]
#3324883 - 11/05/04 02:32 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gomp said:
"if you feel you are not being taken seriously, stop taking you self so seriously" - unknown :P
"if the see you as incomprehensible, let them know what incomprehensible is, an then let them do the judge"
-unknown :P
"a way of showing people what is true, is by refusing them to see it"
-unknow:p
[insert oxymoron here]
*pretend it's a zen koan*
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Gomp
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Sclorch]
#3325001 - 11/05/04 02:59 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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what is oxymoron? and i just pulled thos 'fom my ass' no intent but the intent it made.
" ... To seek freedom is the only driving force I know. Freedom to fly off into that infinity out there. Freedom to dissolve; to lift off; to be like the flame of a candle, which, in spite of being up against the light of a billion stars, remains intact, because it never pretended to be more than what it is: a mere candle." don Juan Matus
"set it free"
-unknown :p
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Sclorch
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Gomp]
#3325014 - 11/05/04 03:03 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gomp said:
" ... To seek freedom is the only driving force I know. Freedom to fly off into that infinity out there. Freedom to dissolve; to lift off; to be like the flame of a candle, which, in spite of being up against the light of a billion stars, remains intact, because it never pretended to be more than what it is: a mere candle." don Juan Matus
I'm stupid... is this a literal or mystical description?
I can't see the message, help me.
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Gomp
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Sclorch]
#3325047 - 11/05/04 03:18 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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but if you can't see the message, you just can't see the message?
there is no message in language, it just is?
ah, OK sorry bout that (internal com port, just ignore:P),
the message could be, hum, lets say for example..
you can not be what you think you are, you can only be what you are? then what if you think you are what you are, could you be that? well, one interpretation is, no, you can not be what you are whit out thinking you are it, but thinking you are, say i.e a candle, does not make you one?
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Edited by Gomp (11/05/04 03:22 PM)
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Gomp
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Gomp]
#3325151 - 11/05/04 03:55 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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"Either Carlos is telling the documentary truth about himself and Don Juan, in which case he is a great anthropologist. Or else it is an imaginative truth, and he is a great novelist. Heads or tails, Carlos wins."
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Swami
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Gomp]
#3325330 - 11/05/04 04:43 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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And the followers of this mythology who take datura, lose.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Gomp
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Swami]
#3325395 - 11/05/04 05:00 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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datura?
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Gomp]
#3325417 - 11/05/04 05:07 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Google web search. Must I do ALL the work?
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deff
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Swami]
#3325419 - 11/05/04 05:08 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yes.
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Gomp
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Swami]
#3325427 - 11/05/04 05:12 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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haha, must you do anything?
you do, is that not enough?
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Huehuecoyotl
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Gomp]
#3325788 - 11/05/04 06:58 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Why has no one ever actually read these books. It is stated in the intro to the first book that the book is fact and allegory. Carlos had something to say about Indian magical traditions which bear similarities to shamanism and share like concepts on some points, BUT Don Juan was NOT a shaman...real or fictional...he claimed to be a brujo (an evil type of sorcerer). He always refered to his art as "sorcery" and called himself a sorcerer...which is NOT a shaman. Many of the concepts he discusses are legitimate, but he had a bad habit of misappropriating native terminology and using it totally out of context. It must be noted that the personna of Don Juan was total invention, but that Carlos did have exposure to some of these concepts through his aquaintance with several Mexican and Peruvian shaman and sorcerers. His close friendship with the Huichol shaman Ramon Silva is particularly worth noting. In "People of the Peyote" anthropologist Stacy Schaffer discussed this. While much of Castaneda's work is fictionalized it is not without worth, and one could do worse than to read his work, BUT it is NOT a do-it-yourself guide to being a shaman or even a discussion of shamanism proper.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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