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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Don't take it personal
    #3321450 - 11/04/04 09:13 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

But I did

All the talk I have been hearing me entire life about how it is OK to dodge any draft. Is not cool. If asked of me I would go. If my country is right or wrong. I love my country but hate my government kinda paradox. :confused: I somewhat torn.

If you run your wrong. Your a Coward. At least go to jail, stand up for your country and say how you feel. I could go on with my personal convictions. But I will leave it at the Law side of the argument.

The idea of running is worse then the idea of war. If the draft comes fight or not. Make damn sure you stand up for your Country. Even if it's because you want to show the wrong. War is part of humanity. That will never change.

Me I will go but, only after they kill the rest of you youngin. :laugh: :heart:

I hate war,WAR SUCKS :sad:


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What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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Offlinedeafpanda
Stranger
Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 984
Loc: Inguland
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
Re: Don't take it personal [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3321470 - 11/04/04 09:16 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Bollocks. My country can go shove power tools up its rectum, preferably with the power setting to "high". I wouldn't fight for any fucker apart from me. I don't believe that my government makes the right military decisions usually, so why sohuld I fight for something I think is a waste of time, money and life? I didn't choose to be born here and I don't like people here any more than I like foreigners. Patriotism is childish wank.


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Invisibleusefulidiot
It's notfascist, it's...Neoconservative!

Registered: 11/21/02
Posts: 732
Re: Don't take it personal [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3321488 - 11/04/04 09:18 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

why feel the need to let them use you like that? governments should start settling their differences with boxing tournaments - cowards


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 6 months, 1 day
Re: Don't take it personal [Re: deafpanda]
    #3321495 - 11/04/04 09:19 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

You have no problem taking advantage of the protection it offers though, do you?


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Offlinezahudulallah
Sexual Heretic

Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: Don't take it personal [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3321505 - 11/04/04 09:21 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Your country is filled with morons. If you're going to be patriotic, be proud that that the North East and the West Coast hasn't been assimilated into stupidity.


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InvisibleGabbaDj
BTH
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Registered: 04/08/01
Posts: 19,448
Loc: By The Lake
Re: Don't take it personal [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3321512 - 11/04/04 09:22 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Just because I chose to live here dont mean that I MUST be willing to die for it.

Its bad enough that I am willing to follow the rules and pay the taxes that come with being an American but my right to chose not to "kill or be killed" is just that. My right.


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GabbaDj

FAMM.ORG          C8.com                    http://www.beatsopjefiets.com/   


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OfflineBleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 1,583
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
Re: Don't take it personal [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3321532 - 11/04/04 09:25 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
You have no problem taking advantage of the protection it offers though, do you?




i have little choice seeing as im just recently emancipated.
but in any other case, anywhere u go at this point is the same in that u submit to your govt.


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Don't take it personal [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3321542 - 11/04/04 09:27 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

If my country is under attack by a clear enemy (one that can be fought with conventional warfare) and I am needed I will sign up to fight. If I am drafted to go to a war that I do not believe in I will not go. I won't run off to Canada or anything, but I will go to prison for my convictions that conscription is wrong. The draft is nothing more than a form of slavery and I will never support it. If the time comes when we must stand and fight, but not enough people will then this country is no longer worth defending.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinedeafpanda
Stranger
Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 984
Loc: Inguland
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
Re: Don't take it personal [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3321571 - 11/04/04 09:31 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

You have no problem taking advantage of the protection it offers though, do you?




Social/fiscal protection, no. As far as I can see, my country hasn't offered its citizens military protection since WWII. If I really believed that my country was under attack I would fight only if we were in the right, for example in WWII. If we deserved the attack, I'd defect to the other side. I'm a member of my country, not a servant to it.


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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: Don't take it personal [Re: deafpanda]
    #3321840 - 11/04/04 10:27 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Hum.......... Not one person agreed


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: Don't take it personal [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3321894 - 11/04/04 10:41 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I agree, in fact I made a poll asking this a couple days ago.

If i was drafted for a war I didn't agree with, I would go.

Dying for a cause that you doesn't agree with is something that should shame my government and country. I think of it as the ultimate sacrifice in order to protest... if any of that makes sense.


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I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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Offlinedeafpanda
Stranger
Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 984
Loc: Inguland
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
Re: Don't take it personal [Re: looner2]
    #3321906 - 11/04/04 10:44 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I don't give enough of a shit about my government and country to do that. I don't think its a very effective protest, just a quirky suicide method.


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OfflinePathos
A million pieces
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/29/04
Posts: 1,045
Loc: Under the stairs
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: Don't take it personal [Re: looner2]
    #3321910 - 11/04/04 10:47 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I dont think theyd get your message, youd just be another "brave young man that gave his life for the country he loved" to them


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Offlinedaimyo
Monticello

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
Re: Don't take it personal [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3322205 - 11/05/04 12:09 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zahudulallah said:
Your country is filled with morons. If you're going to be patriotic, be proud that that the North East and the West Coast hasn't been assimilated into stupidity.




What country do you reside in? Are the people there that disagree with your take on things morons?
At what point did the United States of America become FILLED with morons? From what I saw in the election, slightly less than half voted one way, and slightly more than half voted the other way. That hardly constitutes filled.
The only stupid people are the ones who don't vote. The only morons are the ones who don't vote then bitch.


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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."


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InvisibleTeragon
Noddy

Registered: 02/21/01
Posts: 36,253
Loc: Lost in the Patterns
Re: Don't take it personal [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3322235 - 11/05/04 12:19 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Fucknuckle-

What about not wanting to support a movement/action that is harming other humans??

Wars (especially our recent wars- Vietnam, Gulf, Iraq, etc) cause a great deal of grief and pain for the people who have to live in it. I don't want to be part of something that is working towards a goal that incidently harms and ends human life. It is not right.

USA hasn't had a taste of war since a long time ago....even if you count Pearl Harbor (I don't...it was so-called "terror"). I think you may have a different opinion if we had been destroyed and pillaged recently by a foreign power. But then again, maybe not.

Either way I still think you're a good guy. Those are just my opinions. Thanks for sharing yours...:grin:


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need that cash to feed them jones.


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Offlinedaimyo
Monticello

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
Re: Don't take it personal [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3322281 - 11/05/04 12:29 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I would never let them draft me to go out of this country. I will gladly defend the homeland, but that's it.

I agree with your general idea. Either fight the war, fight the people drafting you, go to jail, or leave the country. And if you decide to leave the country, stay out forever thereafter. You will not be welcomed, wanted, or needed.


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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."


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OfflineAaronEvil
The GuitarVillain
Male

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 1,706
Loc: California
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: Don't take it personal [Re: Teragon]
    #3322674 - 11/05/04 02:16 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Teragon said: What about not wanting to support a movement/action that is harming other humans??




If by other humans you are refering to people who do not fight back then I agree it is wrong. If went to Iraq and they gave us Saddam we wouldnt be there right now. We wouldnt have WMD's and we wouldnt have death on either side. But the fact is, they refused to let us take Saddam, they resisted, and ultimately they used force against us. Its the whole philosophy of dont fire unless fired upon. You dont shoot me, I dont shoot you. What happened was that they continued to fight after Saddam's capture. That to me says that they are not worth saving. Civilians lives have been lost and that is unfortunate but hey, its war. Shit does happen in war. Look at Vietnam. What it really comes down to is why spare someones life if they wont spare yours? I put myself ahead of others. Call it selfish, but you would all do the same thing if it came down to it.

Staying on topic just a little bit, I would fight if I was drafted. It is my civil duty as a resident of the US. I will not sign up for the armed services unless I agree with everything they are doing and could possibly do... but seeing as how that will never happen, I wont be signing up.


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There is not a lot of difference between a fox hole and a grave; but knowing that you dug your ditch and climbed in anyway.


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InvisibleDirtMcgirt
in a pinch
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2,213
Loc: city of angels
Re: Don't take it personal [Re: AaronEvil]
    #3323089 - 11/05/04 04:52 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:


If went to Iraq and they gave us Saddam we wouldnt be there right now. We wouldnt have WMD's and we wouldnt have death on either side. But the fact is, they refused to let us take Saddam, they resisted, and ultimately they used force against us




If we wouldn't have showed up in the first place wthere would be no death. Why was is our place to take Saddam in the first place?

Quote:

Its the whole philosophy of dont fire unless fired upon. You dont shoot me, I dont shoot you. What happened was that they continued to fight after Saddam's capture. That to me says that they are not worth saving.




Exactly. The US fired on Iraq and they shot back. Your forgetting who invaded who. If China invaded the US to topple the electoral college and in the process killed my neighbor and brother I'd be lobbing grenades at some chinamen to get them the fuck outta my country even if I was better off without the electoral college. You would too. If these people aren't worth "saving" why do you support going there in the first place? Is everybody supposed to bow down to the infinite wisdom of the US?

Quote:


be proud that that the North East and the West Coast hasn't been assimilated into stupidity



don't forget the northern midwest(MN,WS,MI,IL)...give credit where credit is due. Go call them the northeast and you'll get slapped.


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"And we, inhabitants of the great coral of the Cosmos, believe the atom (which still we cannot see) to be full matter, whereas, it too, like everything else, is but an embroidery of voids in the Void, and we give the name of being, dense and even eternal, to that dance of inconsistencies, that infinite extension that is identified with absolute Nothingness and that spins from its own non-being the illusion of everything."


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Offlinedaimyo
Monticello

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
Re: Don't take it personal [Re: DirtMcgirt]
    #3325346 - 11/05/04 06:47 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Lots of INNOCENT IRAQIS died under Saddams rule. Were you pleading for Saddam to stop then? There would be plenty more death to come if we wouldn't have invaded.

We never intentionally shot first at Iraqi citizens. We went to get Saddam and fight any troops that opposed it. Then all the jihadists from other countries came in and started fighting dirty. When fighting troops without uniform civilian casualties must be expected.
Also, the problem with who shot first is it is irrelevant anymore. In this day the first shot can be nuclear. That means 100,000s of deaths instantly. I don't know about you, but I am not willing to let that happen if it can be prevented. We knew Saddam had weapons; we sold them to him. He agreed to destroy them and have evidence of it. This had plenty of world support before. I can't remember how many UN Resolutions were passed against Saddam, but it was more than enough. Then the UN got their hands in Saddams pockets and couldn't see letting go so they opposed the invasion. He claimed the weapons were destroyed, but never offered proof. He could easily have sold them to anybody with money. Chances are whoever would buy them would be an enemy of the US. That is crossing the line. If you do not agree, then I'd like to know why.

And the electoral college is not a brutal dictator that kills its citizens, ignores the United Nations, and starves its people for oil money. That analogy doesn't hold much weight.


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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."


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Offlineunbeliever
Yo Daddy!
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Registered: 05/22/04
Posts: 5,158
Loc: Gallifrey
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Don't take it personal [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3325360 - 11/05/04 06:52 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

War sucks. Killing people sucks. I'd definitely dodge a draft if there ever was one. No need to feel bad about it. I'm a human first before I'm an American. My humanity tells me it's wrong to kill people. The american government takes the back seat on that decision.


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Happiness is a warm gun...


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