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OfflineNuperSova
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Registered: 11/04/04
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My Problem with God
    #3319171 - 11/04/04 11:47 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Hello, I'm new here... :heart:

But this was something that was just on my mind...The problem with God, or any sort of higher deity for me, no matter how I begin to feel, comes back to the issue of choice. It's supposed blasphemy if you are here on earth, and take this life for granted, or take your own life for that matter...But isn't it reasonable to take issue with the fact that it is no one's choice to be here, no one gets to choose. Some can handle life and all of its adversities, and some can't. I see God as someone who wouldn't force life on you, when it's a possibility that you may not want it...What do You think?

Chryssi


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I Refuse To Say I'm Lost Just Because I Don't Know Where I Am


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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: My Problem with God [Re: NuperSova]
    #3319223 - 11/04/04 11:59 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Welcome to the Shroomery. Nice to see new faces :cool:

Then you believe in GOD?

The questions of How does God make us live such a sucky life and why does God let babies die nsaty deaths, why does God let us suffer etc.... Why, why, why is is so fucking hard to live Aughhhhhhhh

The answer is easy and yet hard to grasp

Lets say God was alone and wanted some companionship. He is going to make man. Now he could have made man perfect and without pains. But where would the love be in that? Funny huh........Let me explain

Ok .........God needed to make friends to hang out with. But he knows that the only true way to have loving friends is the friends have to make a choice to love. Had God just made man and the world perfect he would just have some silly computer telling him. WE LOVE YOU.

Thats not love. Love is a choice. Man has a choice to be good or bad. Tp love God or to hate him. That is why the world is so fucked becasue man has a choice and without choice there can be no love.

This is the way we can now for sure without doubt that there is Good and evil. A God to hang with or not to hang with. Postive and negtive.

God loves us enough ,to allow us to make a choice. Love is a choice.

God hasn't forced anything on us other than the free will to chose.

How you choose to live is your choice not Gods. So if you live in a world of pain then you made that decision not God.


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What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: My Problem with God [Re: NuperSova]
    #3319242 - 11/04/04 12:04 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

""I see God as someone who wouldn't force life on you""

we are born? we can not chose to be born, life is evil. live life evil? :P
god is the force of force! :P change will always change, so no rush in life? :P ill die soon enough :wink:


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OfflineNuperSova
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Re: My Problem with God [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3319261 - 11/04/04 12:09 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Actually, I am not sure what I belive, it seems I drift in and out of beliving in something and nothing at all.

I understand the option of choice, but the option is only the side-effect of being denied the first choice; that of deciding to/wanting to reside on this earth. And it is this particular fact that severly undermines the significance of choice.

And God,lonely? That is only to say that we are here solely for his amusement. And I cannot fall into line with that, just because of any perception of God being all powerful, and I find this hard to fit in with a God who gets lonely, or wishes to create only for his amusement. Because surely there would be other ways of amusing one's self! I mean, he's God?


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: My Problem with God [Re: NuperSova]
    #3319265 - 11/04/04 12:10 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

First of all.. welcome to S&P :sun:

I am of the belief/opinion that everyone DOES indeed, choose to be here.

Whether we are consciously aware of it or not, I think that every soul definitely chooses to incarnate on the physical plane, for the purpose of evolving, and learning to reconnect with "god". Before we come here, we know what we are getting ourselves into. It's a journey.. no one said it would be easy.


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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: My Problem with God [Re: NuperSova]
    #3319283 - 11/04/04 12:16 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Your confusing Love with self amusment. God would have just made programed robots if he wanted amusment. No he created man in the need for Love. Kinda of a way to self replicate himself. i.e. we are God, God lives with in us etc.....


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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OfflineNuperSova
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Re: My Problem with God [Re: Shroomism]
    #3319296 - 11/04/04 12:21 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Now that's definitely an interesting take. But what would be the purpose of having this choice if there is the possibility that is buried somewhere deep in the unconcious, so deep in fact, that one would even have to question the issue of choice. If this is the case, if it is indeed our spirits that have made the choice, then why is it the body that experiences the ups and downs of life, and not that mysterious enigma that is the soul?

I'm not trying to be argumentive at all. I hope no one takes it that way. I just want to know..
And thanks everyone for the welcomes, they are much appreciated.


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I Refuse To Say I'm Lost Just Because I Don't Know Where I Am


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Offlineballs
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Re: My Problem with God [Re: NuperSova]
    #3319309 - 11/04/04 12:25 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

If you honestly, seriously want to know all those questions you asked, read the bible.


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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: My Problem with God [Re: balls]
    #3319322 - 11/04/04 12:30 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

It would be better if you could give a few versus or something. To just saying read the bible. Does nothing... I think

The bible is huge and this info can be found all over it. And that is assuming the person reading it really thinks it was inspired by God. I know it was but, alot of people thinks it wasn't.


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: My Problem with God [Re: NuperSova]
    #3319336 - 11/04/04 12:37 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

But what would be the purpose of having this choice if there is the possibility that is buried somewhere deep in the unconcious, so deep in fact, that one would even have to question the issue of choice.




Because the whole process of going from purely spiritual being, to incarnating on the physical plane, in a physical body.. means to temporarily lose touch with the spiritual reality and the neverending connection and bliss of God/All-That-Is. When you "descend into matter" you will often lose touch with these higher dimensions, as the whole process of physical reality is to gain wisdom through experience.. and by learning to reconnect with those higher realities through our life lessons, we help to further evolution and make it that much stronger.. if that makes any sense. Basically, we forget, in order to remember again.

Quote:

If this is the case, if it is indeed our spirits that have made the choice, then why is it the body that experiences the ups and downs of life, and not that mysterious enigma that is the soul?




Well to entertain that notion you would first have to consider the soul separate from the body.. which I don't. While I do consider the mind, soul, and body to be different things, I also believe they are intimately connected, as the body could not exist without the soul, and the soul could not exist in the physical realm without the body. The body is simply a vehicle for the soul.. a physical anchor. The soul does indeed experience the many extremes of ups and downs of life, but in a different way than the body. The soul takes the essence of the life lessons away from it..

What I have come to understand, is that we disconnect with God "up there"... to find God "down here". And while god may very well exist as an absolute in the 144th dimension, I also know for a fact, that it exists in every human being, every soul, every living thing in existance, from the smallest molecule to the largest galaxy.. god is everywhere and everything.


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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: My Problem with God [Re: Shroomism]
    #3319369 - 11/04/04 12:50 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

What , I also know for a fact, that it exists in every human being, every soul, every living thing in existance, from the smallest molecule to the largest galaxy.. god is everywhere and everything.




:heart: :thumbup:


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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Offlineballs
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Re: My Problem with God [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3320331 - 11/04/04 04:56 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Fucknuckle said:
It would be better if you could give a few versus or something. To just saying read the bible. Does nothing... I think

The bible is huge and this info can be found all over it. And that is assuming the person reading it really thinks it was inspired by God. I know it was but, alot of people thinks it wasn't.




Yea, saying to read the bible without giving any facts is just trying to force it on to people. I myself cant help you by giving verses, Id like to but I just cant seem to grasp the whole concept of it all. Sorry dude.


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OfflineEgoTripping
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Registered: 05/01/04
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Re: My Problem with God [Re: NuperSova]
    #3322053 - 11/04/04 11:25 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

NuperSova said:
Hello, I'm new here... :heart:

But this was something that was just on my mind...The problem with God, or any sort of higher deity for me, no matter how I begin to feel, comes back to the issue of choice. It's supposed blasphemy if you are here on earth, and take this life for granted, or take your own life for that matter...But isn't it reasonable to take issue with the fact that it is no one's choice to be here, no one gets to choose. Some can handle life and all of its adversities, and some can't. I see God as someone who wouldn't force life on you, when it's a possibility that you may not want it...What do You think?

Chryssi




Your first mistake is assuming you didn't have choice in coming here.  Think about that.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: My Problem with God [Re: NuperSova]
    #3323317 - 11/05/04 07:51 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Welcome.

It sounds like a lot of late adolescent angst. Suicidal ideation, crisis of meaning-in-life, existential isolation, and a lack of patience ("In patience possess ye your soul.") Love is the Way, yet not to be confused with the plethora of emotions and relations that pass for love. Love is not an emotion, nor an action in Biblical theology. Human love is defined in terms of 'Will' - free will to be exact - in the Compassionate care of others, regardless of how one 'feels' about the other. The choice to care, to be Compassionate on the human [horizontal] plane derives from the metaphysics of Biblical theology, namely, that "God is love" (1 John 4:8) [the vertical plane]. Manifesting Compassion or Love [Agape] on this plane creates an 'intersection' with the Transcendental.

To the extent that we manifest love or become loving, all the other aspects of ourselves (all of which constitutes our ego) diminishes in importance. Only this Divine Love is Eternal and it alone survives this life, hence the urgency to love GOD and others. Only Love enters into Love, the rest of us perishes. This defines our discipline (and hence discipleship) and imparts Ultimate Meaning to the otherwise meaningless psychosociobiological existence of mere mammalhood. Believe it or not.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineNuperSova
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Re: My Problem with God [Re: EgoTripping]
    #3323388 - 11/05/04 08:37 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

EgoTripping said:
Quote:

NuperSova said:
Hello, I'm new here... :heart:

But this was something that was just on my mind...The problem with God, or any sort of higher deity for me, no matter how I begin to feel, comes back to the issue of choice. It's supposed blasphemy if you are here on earth, and take this life for granted, or take your own life for that matter...But isn't it reasonable to take issue with the fact that it is no one's choice to be here, no one gets to choose. Some can handle life and all of its adversities, and some can't. I see God as someone who wouldn't force life on you, when it's a possibility that you may not want it...What do You think?

Chryssi




Your first mistake is assuming you didn't have choice in coming here.  Think about that.




But I have thought about it, over and over again. And maybe for others some see it different, but I'd like to remember, or know conciously that I made/even had a choice of coming here. And as seems to be proven by this feeling, a feeling that I've seemingly always had! This is nothing new, no tragic life-changing events, no "suicidal ideologies"/tendencies, no troublesome depression, only the question of the seemingly right I have to choose my existence, is all. I think I must not be being clear?? Thanks for the responses people..


--------------------
I Refuse To Say I'm Lost Just Because I Don't Know Where I Am


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OfflineNuperSova
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Re: My Problem with God [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #3323392 - 11/05/04 08:40 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

MarkostheGnostic

I think I somewhat understand what you are saying, I could be wrong though, but I don't see what that has to do with what I'm questioning/"My Problem with God"

Chryssi


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I Refuse To Say I'm Lost Just Because I Don't Know Where I Am


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OfflineGomp
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Re: My Problem with God [Re: EgoTripping]
    #3325476 - 11/05/04 07:29 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

EgoTripping said:
Quote:

NuperSova said:
Hello, I'm new here... :heart:

But this was something that was just on my mind...The problem with God, or any sort of higher deity for me, no matter how I begin to feel, comes back to the issue of choice. It's supposed blasphemy if you are here on earth, and take this life for granted, or take your own life for that matter...But isn't it reasonable to take issue with the fact that it is no one's choice to be here, no one gets to choose. Some can handle life and all of its adversities, and some can't. I see God as someone who wouldn't force life on you, when it's a possibility that you may not want it...What do You think?

Chryssi




Your first mistake is assuming you didn't have choice in coming here.  Think about that.




that is, i was born, my dad, and my mom had sex?
im not saying you are wrong, you add to how i see it, but, how could we have choice in coming here?


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: My Problem with God [Re: NuperSova]
    #3326104 - 11/05/04 10:41 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

You're too old to be going on about 'I didn't ask to be born.' Human birth is a rare blessing. You don't get out of existence simply by dying, you get out by transcending. Best get on with it or next time 'round it may well be worse - from the frying pan into the fire.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineNuperSova
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Re: My Problem with God [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #3326999 - 11/06/04 10:01 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

See this is where you're wrong. You come from a stance that I'm whining about the fact that "I didn't ask to be born". I'm simply questioning it. You seem to assume that this question arises because somewhere and somehow my life must be in shambles! It is not. It is only healthy discussion, some people do have different opinions you know.

See that is You're perspective' that "Human birth is a rare blessing" perhaps everyone does not think that way. And you're last statement isn't at all constructive to this discussion. Is that suppose to scare me into loving God or Jesus, and following blindly behind a faith and be like Ohhhhhhh Okay, I better start transcending now... Ohmmmmmm... It does not.

Thanks for your opinion though?


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I Refuse To Say I'm Lost Just Because I Don't Know Where I Am


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Offlinesox24
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Re: My Problem with God [Re: NuperSova]
    #3327072 - 11/06/04 10:46 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

"It sounds like a lot of late adolescent angst. Suicidal ideation, crisis of meaning-in-life, existential isolation, and a lack of patience ("In patience possess ye your soul.") "


And these children that you spit on
As they try to change their worlds
Are immune to your consultations
They?re quite aware of what they?re going through
-David Bowie


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