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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Partial birth abortion
    #3318126 - 11/04/04 02:14 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Up until now I have been staunchly pro-abortion. I think abortion is
a great way to cut down on the population. It also offers a way for
non self-sufficient people to not bring a kid into the world that
they couldn't afford to support anyway.

However, someone was telling me about partial birth abortion. This
occurs very late in the pregnancy. I guess they induce labor,
get the child's head so that it is the only part outside of the
vagina, cut into its head, and suck its brains out. Supposedly,
the child struggles and flails around. The child is developed enough
so that it looks like a baby. Babies have been born a little
premature but healthy at earlier times than partial birth abortion
is sometimes carried out.

Doesn't that seem like murder to you? I don't have much of a
problem with a clump of cells with no central nervous system
being aborted...but partial birth abortion seems like killing.


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InvisibleGnuBobo
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Registered: 06/17/04
Posts: 43,754
Loc: Charisma
Re: Partial birth abortion [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3318198 - 11/04/04 02:44 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Dude. You're gay. And you're buying into Tom Delay's talking points/extreme examples to make a case. Your fog is that you begin to merge D&E abortions with all abortions. That's like assuming all blacks are Compton Fuck the Poh-leese Negroes. Seriously.
If you want to make an argument, you take the opposition's position and take it to its worst, most hypothetical conclusion. Look at some stats. Bitch.
GB


--------------------
Jerry Garcia. JERRY GARCIA! JERRY GARCIA!!!!


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Partial birth abortion [Re: GnuBobo]
    #3318215 - 11/04/04 02:51 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Did you not read my post at all?

I clearly say that I don't care if early pregnancies are aborted.
I don't care if a clump of cells or an under-developed fetus is
aborted. But, it bothers me that a pretty much fully formed
baby would have its brains sucked out with a tube.

I am not saying we should make abortion illegal. I desperately
want it to remain legal because too many scummy people are getting
knocked up and abortion is the last resort to keep them from
breeding. But, this partial birth abortion thing...from what I have
heard really bothers me.


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InvisibleGnuBobo
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Posts: 43,754
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Re: Partial birth abortion [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3318256 - 11/04/04 03:04 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Dude, ok.  "Partial-Birth" Abortions are very rare.  That's 3rd trimester.  Usually done only when a woman's life is in danger. 
And no, it doesn't make me sick as if you plop something out on the sidewalk and it can't live, then, well, it wasn't viable.  :tongue:

GB


--------------------
Jerry Garcia. JERRY GARCIA! JERRY GARCIA!!!!


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OfflineFrankieJustTrypt
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Registered: 01/27/04
Posts: 537
Loc: MI
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
Re: Partial birth abortion [Re: GnuBobo]
    #3318567 - 11/04/04 05:41 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I dont think theres any reason not to have partial birth abortions. Sure doesn't sound pleasant, but who the hell cares. Obviously if you willing to go through one, you really don't want that baby... It works out perfect...


I also wouldn't mind seeing a porno where a women gives birth and then they take the baby and shove it into the woman's ass.


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If you want a free lunch, you need to learn how to eat good advice.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Partial birth abortion [Re: FrankieJustTrypt]
    #3318589 - 11/04/04 05:52 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

We should just consider all those dead Iraqis as late term abortions, not murders.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
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Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Partial birth abortion [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3318670 - 11/04/04 07:43 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

get the child's head so that it is the only part outside of the
vagina, cut into its head, and suck its brains out.




actually, the head is the only part stuck in the mothers cooch.



Partial birth abortion


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlineld50negative1
lethal dosage

Registered: 07/01/04
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Re: Partial birth abortion [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3318676 - 11/04/04 07:47 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
It also offers a way for non self-sufficient people to not bring a kid into the world that they couldn't afford to support anyway.





That's funny - the BEST way not to have a baby is not to have sex and have on... take as MANY precautiosn as you can. You are a pretty fat pussy if you can't take care of your own child if you accidently have one... People these days are fuckin ridiculous... hey i don't want this baby let's kill the damned thing!


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Partial birth abortion [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3318687 - 11/04/04 07:58 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

I think abortion is a great way to cut down on the population. It also offers a way for non self-sufficient people to not bring a kid into the world that they couldn't afford to support anyway.




This is the attitude that I don't like with respect to abortion. The idea that an abortion is no different than slipping on a condom. I am not trying to put you down here, but a potential human life is involved...

Quote:

Doesn't that seem like murder to you?




Not at all. To me, until a baby is born, it is only a potential person, not an actual person. Until the baby is born, it is a part of the mothers body, and the mother has a right to do with her body what she chooses.

Quote:

I don't have much of a problem with a clump of cells with no central nervous system being aborted...but partial birth abortion seems like killing.




Killing a clump of cells which can become a person or killing a fetus which can become a person are no different. We tolerate one because it seems so abstract, but in the end they are no different from one another.

Personally, I am against abortion... but I would never support anybody that tries to take away the right for somebody else to decide their own moral values.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinedeafpanda
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Registered: 05/07/04
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Re: Partial birth abortion [Re: Seuss]
    #3318820 - 11/04/04 09:53 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Actually, I think there is quite a difference in moral terms between killing a 24 week old fetus and a clump of cells. Studies suggest that fetuses have some awareness, and they can respond to stimuli. Clumps of cells can't. Perhaps fairly mature fetuses can feel pain.

I don't think you can say that there is a clear-cut point where a fetus becomes an actual person. In terms of morally relevant characteristics, a fetus has much more going for it than a clump of cells.

I'm all for abortion, but I don't think I'd ever want it to happen to a child of mine.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Registered: 02/09/01
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Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Partial birth abortion [Re: deafpanda]
    #3318834 - 11/04/04 09:59 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

I'm all for abortion, but I don't think I'd ever want it to happen to a child of mine.




this seems to be a popular point of view...

I don't support abortion because i'm responsible for my actions and can face the consequences, I expect others to at least make that effort. I find myself on the fence with both groups because while i'm anti-abotion (personal responsibility) I also think that it's up to the women to decide if she wants to keep it. I figure since I cannot push my moral values on another i'll let her explain it to her maker. I don't, however, want a single tax dollar to go for the abortion since it is a divided issue right down the middle.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Anonymous

Re: Partial birth abortion [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3319191 - 11/04/04 11:52 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

partial birth abortion is not abortion.


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InvisibleVvellum
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Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: Partial birth abortion [Re: ]
    #3319235 - 11/04/04 12:03 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

re: abortion in general

what if the mother's life is in danger?
what if the mother was raped?


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Anonymous

Re: Partial birth abortion [Re: Vvellum]
    #3319267 - 11/04/04 12:11 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

what if the mother's life is in danger?

that justifies an abortion at any point in a pregnancy.

what if the mother was raped?

that shouldn't make a difference.


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InvisibleVvellum
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Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: Partial birth abortion [Re: ]
    #3319275 - 11/04/04 12:13 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

why?


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Anonymous

Re: Partial birth abortion [Re: Vvellum]
    #3319294 - 11/04/04 12:20 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

because at a certain point, a fetus becomes a person with rights. after this point (whenever you think it is) it doesn't matter how it was conceived.


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InvisibleGijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
Re: Partial birth abortion [Re: Innvertigo]
    #3319299 - 11/04/04 12:22 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Innvertigo said:
I don't support abortion because i'm responsible for my actions and can face the consequences, I expect others to at least make that effort. I find myself on the fence with both groups because while i'm anti-abotion (personal responsibility) I also think that it's up to the women to decide if she wants to keep it. I figure since I cannot push my moral values on another i'll let her explain it to her maker. I don't, however, want a single tax dollar to go for the abortion since it is a divided issue right down the middle.




I find myself in 100% agreement with Inny.

From a moral standpoint, I view abortion as killing. At any stage of the game. But abortion is the type of killing that a free society must allow because restricting any form of it would be restricting what women do to their own bodies. It's a choice that any individual can and should be able to make. Let them deal with the moral consequences, if they believe there are any.

Like Inny, I also don't support government funding... However, I think that I would like the government help make the morning after pill as available and cheap as possible. The morning after pill could effectively cut abortions by as much as 60% in this country. Maybe more. The fact that sooooo many religious types are labeling it as an 'abortion pill' and constantly protesting to the FDA is sickening and shows what a lack of scientific knowledge they have.


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what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Partial birth abortion [Re: Gijith]
    #3319453 - 11/04/04 01:11 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

one thing i do not like is how a 12 year old girl can walk into an abortion-clinic and they push her to have one and promise never to tell her parents. that same girl would have to have the parents permission to get some aspirin at school. but not for a major operation, that can damage her ovaries for life.


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
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Re: Partial birth abortion [Re: lonestar2004]
    #3319485 - 11/04/04 01:26 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

oh those wacky liberals.. it's no surprise they got their asses handed to them this election.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Partial birth abortion [Re: Innvertigo]
    #3319486 - 11/04/04 01:26 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)


actually, the head is the only part stuck in the mothers cooch.


Ugh...

How could a doctor participate in that? You can see the fetus
flailing and moving. It looks like a person. I would feel like I
was murdering a person.

I dunno...I can't help but feel some sympathy for a baby that
has a fully developed central nervous system and can respond to
stimuli as opposed to a clump of cells.


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