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InvisibleMoonshoe
Blue Mantis
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Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
Re: do 'evil' people know they're evil [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3310837 - 11/03/04 03:08 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

"The fortunes of Canada and the US are inextricably intertwined. If one fails it is an indication the other will not be far behind. "

fail... means to not achieve a set goal. canada's goals and america's goals are drastically different. The failure of one's goals may in fact mean the furtherance of the other's.

Many forward thinking initiatives that canada has saught to intorduce (legalization of marijuana) for one, have been repeatedly squashed by threats and intimidation by the states.


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Everything I post is fiction.


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Offlinequarkyquasar
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Registered: 07/20/03
Posts: 312
Loc: NorCaL
Last seen: 1 month, 23 days
Re: do 'evil' people know they're evil [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3310939 - 11/03/04 03:30 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

If catholics who believe in the catholic version of hell are sane and normal people.... What makes the people who choose to follow Satan insane?
He exhibited no schizophrenic, bipolar, personality disorder, or even ADD symptoms that's why I think he was sane.
Jeffery dahmer was found sane.
Charles mansion was found sane.
The list goes on.

By the way, I am insane!  :cuckoo:


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How does a nice dose of democracy up your ass sound?
Oh, and please enjoy your new freedom if you happen to survive
....


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InvisibleMoonshoe
Blue Mantis
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Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
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Re: do 'evil' people know they're evil [Re: quarkyquasar]
    #3311161 - 11/03/04 04:25 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

"catholics who believe in the catholic version of hell are sane and normal people"

lol ok well here we find the false premise your conclusion is based on

nah just kidding but seriousy those people are crazy

and i know what your saying

i guess your freind, like dahmer and manson, were sociopaths, and i guess that doesnt count as a form of insanity, simply a total renunciation of all moral and soceital values, which it could be argued is a valid life choice

:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :sad:


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Everything I post is fiction.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: do 'evil' people know they're evil [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3311299 - 11/03/04 05:06 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

At that time, I was a Hawk rather than a Dove. My high school yearbook quote was Colonel Paul Tibbets, pilot of the Enola Gay who dropped the first A-bomb on Hiroshima ["My God, what have we done?," although Tibbets later claimed that was for the history books and what he really said was 'Look at that son-of-a-bitch go!'] My high school junior year's history term paper was graded by my teacher's husband, who was involved with national defense, and he gave me a grade of 'A.' It was entitled: 'The Arms Race: 1960-1970' and I illustrated with drawings of Nike-Ajax missiles, Multiple Re-entry Vehicles and Multiple Independent Re-entry Vehicles, lists of nerve agents and other chemical and biological weapons. I was then, as I am now, a cerebrotonic meso-ectomorph, who went off to college to major in microbiology, fueled by the movie 'The Andromeda Strain,' and expecting to grow germs for warfare at Ft. Detrick, Maryland. I had neither the body or the temperament for jungle warfare. Nevertheless, I also had no plan to run to Canada, and I would have gone had I been called (I registered at the draft board on my 18th birthday). Uncle Sam would've benefitted more by my presence in a lab than on bivouac. I was once warned away from Nam by a long-haired returned radioman while on a bus home from NYC's Greenwich Village. On the other hand, an older brother of a childhood friend enlisted for Nam but was placed in Okinawa for 3 years instead ["I wanna be an Airborne Ranger...I wanna live a life of danger...I wanna go to Viet Nam...I wanna kill some Charlie Cong"].

I rather identify with the Minutemen [later the name of an ICBM], and I would be using the U.S. Army's book 'Improvised Munitions' and any other McGiver-like devices if my home-land were invaded [like in 'Red Dawn']. Our leadership is no longer motivated by ideology, pure or otherwise. I voted my first time for Nixon because he promised a voluntary army. I've been suspicious of every president except maybe for Bill Clinton. I live in Miami, the 5th column is already here - morons voting for morons who open the land to more morons.* Two of the 9/11 terrorists used to work out at a gym 5 miles from my home. I'm ready to lock-n'-load right in my house. Do you know which 5-shot, pistol-grip, 10 guage is preferable? Is Remington superior to Mossberg?

* Let me qualify "morons." Not the mere insult, and not imbecile or idiot which are also not mere insults, but archaic terms for mental retardation. Webster defines moron as "1: a feebleminded person or mental defective who has a potential mental age of between 8 and 12 years and is capable of doing routine work under supervision." An imbecile has a mental age of 3 to 7 and can work under supervision; and an idiot has a mental age not exceeding 3 years and who requires complete custodial care. I think I was being fairly accurate from what I encounter in south Florida. And the very WORST part, is that the kids actually WANT to remain in that mental age range, and no longer PLAY cops-n'-robbers, but wanna be 'gangstas.' [I just met the Chief of Police of a very wealthy beachfront community and suggested that he watch the film 'Bad Boys 2' -filmed in Miami. The unfunny part is that the stereotypes are true-to-life down here].


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (11/03/04 02:44 PM)


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Offlinezahudulallah
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Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 10,579
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Re: do 'evil' people know they're evil [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #3311682 - 11/03/04 06:28 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

You don't have to answer this question, but... Who did ya vote for? :smile:


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Offlinezahudulallah
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Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 10,579
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Re: do 'evil' people know they're evil [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #3311787 - 11/03/04 06:48 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Hehe I just realized your remark on Clinton... I always loved Clinton.. maybe it was charisma? He was perhaps the greatest president in U.S. history in my opinion, second to Jimmy Carter who initiated peace between Egypt and Israel.. Bill Clinton could have talked Iblis into bowing down with the rest of the jinn.  :laugh:

God bless Slick Willy.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: do 'evil' people know they're evil [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3312972 - 11/03/04 02:20 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

JFK, the lesser of two evils.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
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Registered: 03/13/02
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Re: do 'evil' people know they're evil [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3313199 - 11/03/04 04:48 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
"Change... will be forced?  What you desire you cannot grasp"
You can't read very well. I said:
"This is just my prediction of what will occur not what should occur."




I know what you said, I read it correctly the first fuckin' time. My reply had absolutely nothing to do with who said it, but the statement itself. Perhaps you should read my comment again, it is in direct reply to the statement on its own, not who said it.

Quote:

So I say that you desire what you cannot grasp...you obviously desire to draw a judgemental hate based conclusion about what I said. This shows ill intent and hate based modes of thought.




:lol: No hate based conclusion was made about what you said, I honestly think you are perceving what I said wrongly. No judgement, nothing based in hatred - "what you desire you cannot grasp" has nothing to do with you personally, obviously, it is in relation to the idea of those attempting to force change. If that is the sentence that completely threw off your perception of what I said, then you must know, you took it in the wrong light.

In conclusion, it is not judgemental, it is not based in hatred, and it has nothing to do with you. Force seperates from the flow, obstructs it, and is not effective in bringing change; this is what is implied by that statement, nothing more. :wink:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: do 'evil' people know they're evil [Re: Jellric]
    #3313378 - 11/03/04 05:43 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Jellric said:
I'm a little more optimistic about the situation. I don't think civilization will collapse, but once the price of oil becomes intolerable people will find an alternative. Necessity is the mother of invention. Of course the change will be wrenching since we will have waited until change was forced upon us. But isn't that the way change almost always happens? Even at the personal level people rarely change unless forced to by pain that becomes intolerable.




I don't believe you are reflecting on the entire picture here. This isn't some situation where oil will gradually rise in price, and people will become frustrated with this, and some new alternative will be rolled out, releasing the steam.

Oil is involved with almost every aspect of 5/6ths of the world's population's existance. If it was not for oil, their lives would not be supported. That figure isn't entirely accurate, but it is based on the current population and the population count of the time when oil consumption started booming. The rapid acceleration experienced since is entirely due to oil, and is constantly supported by it - it is an artificial means of sustainment, and, as it is non-renewable, these lives will soon end.

Oil honestly is the life blood of an entire civilization, and when it starts disappearing, and gets more expensive, what is going to happen? Almost everything relies on oil. The demands continue to increase, and we do not even have any sort of plan to prepare for this, to alter our course. Why? Obviously, poliiticans know of this. Heads of major corporations know this, scientists know this. This isn't being prepared for in advance because we are ignorant of it, or because we are sluggish and need a shock to provoke change - complete knowledge of this is shock enough.

We could say that certain politicians are too involved with oil and are getting rich off of it, and that is why change is not being activated, but I don't think so - it is because there isn't anything we can do to save a civilization that requires oil for everything of that civilization. The world leaders are simply getting invovled in plans to secure the remaining oil so that their own country might be supported for a greater amount of time...

Anyways, changing to other alternatives requires time and energy, and when we start feeling the harsh effects of peak oil, neither exist. This isn't like switching from eating meats to a vegetarian diet, this is changing the entire infrastructure of the entire world. Agrictulture is entirely oil based, pesticides, fertilizers, machinery, and transportation all require oil. Where are billions of people going to get their food from when the Earth cannot support them naturally?

I'm sorry, man, but almost all alternatives that we know of today are merely based on fufilling power and gasoline needs (what of manufacturing? plastics? computers consume an amount of oil ten times their weight merely when they are manufatured), and a good chunk of these "options" either require oil itself to be produced (ethanol? biomass?), or do not offer near enough energy as needed.

I'm sorry, but especially in the United States, our entire economy, population, and infrastructure deeply require a large amount of cheap, easily obtainable oil every single day. Production of it is declining, world demand of it is increasing, as Dick Cheney himself has stated. The prices will soar, and not only that, the remaining oil after reaching peak becomes more expensive to extract. Inevitably, the cogs of the machine will stop turning, one by one. An entire, unnatural system based so blindly and optimistically on a limited, non-renewable resource will cease to be. We've been running a race towards something that cannot be reached by running, progress has blinded our awareness, and now it is time to awake. Too bad almost everyone dies. The tower of Babel is falling. :lol:

The United States of America and most of the world will collapse in a matter of years.

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibletrendalM
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Registered: 04/18/01
Posts: 20,814
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Re: do 'evil' people know they're evil [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3313586 - 11/03/04 06:20 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

The United States of America and most of the world will collapse in a matter of years.

:thumbup:

Unfortunately it seems that far too people are willing to accept this truth. The general opinion seems to be, if they can even accept HAVING an opinion, "well...that's far in the future...let someone else worry about it when it happens". This, unfortunately, will be the downfall of far too many people.

This is not the end...simply the next step. I don't think it is something to be feared...because why should we fear something we cannot change? Oil will dry up, and for the first time nearly ALL of the people of Earth will be faced with the SAME problem at the SAME time. Many will die, I'm sure, so we can only hope that those of us who manage to live through the rough spot will have learned enough from our experiences to work together.

I'm looking forward to the next incarnation of Human Civilization :wink:


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Offlinedeff
mysticlove
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Re: do 'evil' people know they're evil [Re: trendal]
    #3313882 - 11/03/04 07:01 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

It may be the end of our current society that is built around oil.

But it won't mean the end of life from this society.

There are many alternatives from oil, altough certain pressures are preventing them from being developed in time. Sure oil is often used in the production of oil-free machinery and energy sources and whatever, but if we were to use the remaining oil to build enough machinery that supports renewable energy sources now, we would be set. Of course, oil companies would rather go down in a boom, profiting until the very end, and be the richest folk left after the crisis - and be able to sustain themselves and hold power.

But really, we only rely on oil for our current oil lifestyle. We don't 'need' electricity, transportation, ect. Animals support themselves without oil :laugh:. I know that our huge population has only gotten this large due to the industries that use oil, but oil-free agriculture is still an option after such a crisis.

It will definitely be a huge change and I think it will be sooner than most people admit. But it certainly won't mean death :laugh:


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: do 'evil' people know they're evil [Re: deff]
    #3314083 - 11/03/04 07:30 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Well, no. That's precisely the problem. Currently there are no viable alternatives to oil - for either energy production or petrochemical sources.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Offlinedeff
mysticlove
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Re: do 'evil' people know they're evil [Re: trendal]
    #3314130 - 11/03/04 07:36 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

For energy?

What about biodiesel? And of course the already implemented hydro, wind, solar, nuclear even...

And geothermal...

And I know a lot of these require machinery that runs on oil, but machinery running on hydrogen or other combustable compounds would be possible.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: do 'evil' people know they're evil [Re: deff]
    #3314238 - 11/03/04 07:51 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Thats the spirit def!

Clear water here in Tampa I read is making moves to become an example, solar powered community. My uncle in sothern illinois powers his home with geothermal energy. This is just to say that people are now , have been, and will continue to move in this direction before a crisis need arrives and they are slowly paving the way for positive and much needed change.

There are lots of free energy pattents floating around, granted many have been bought up and locked away by you know who, but, 'they" can't keep the human spirit from from finding alternate ways and utilising them for ever.

Like Tren said, I'm excited about the next incarnation of civilisation myself.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: do 'evil' people know they're evil [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3314278 - 11/03/04 08:00 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

If the oilprice will rise finally to the extreme, the alternative energysources will get in economic reach.
On this, the market is self-regulating.

Buuut, if we finally blow all oil in the air (and best all the coal too), the climate will change definitely. So perhaps acting before, should not let get things to the extremes...


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleMoonshoe
Blue Mantis
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Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
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Re: do 'evil' people know they're evil [Re: trendal]
    #3314808 - 11/03/04 09:37 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:


Neither am I complacent, however I see spending my life trying to change the rest of society as futile at this point. Instead I work on my own life, as it is the only thing I have any measure of control over. I could never hope to change anything until I am fully practicing what I preech.

Within 6 years I plan on living sustainably off the grid. I have been working towards this for several years already. I will not take more from the land around me than it can provide, so as far as I am concerned I will no longer be a part of the problem. Can you say the same for yourself?




just wanted to pop back in and say, this guy knows whats up, seriously i couldnt agree more. Be the change that you want to see. act in the realm of your own life and daily interactions. Remove yourself from the grid, and thereby remove yourself from reliance and hypocrisy.

:thumbup: :heart:


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Everything I post is fiction.


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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 2,261
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Re: do 'evil' people know they're evil [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3315084 - 11/03/04 10:18 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I didn't give a lengthy picture of how oil is intertwined with our civilization, but I think that is clearly implied when I said that the transition from oil to any alternate fuel source will be "wrenching". I just am more optimistic than you in the resourcefulness of my fellow humans. We have overcome huge obstacles before and I'm confident we will do so again!

The United States of America and most of the world will collapse in a matter of years.

That is your opinion and if you are basing that purely upon the effects of peak oil I would have to disagree. But I agree with 90% of what you stated very well. The consequences will certainly be severe, we only disagree in the degree of the impact.


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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/21/04
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Re: do 'evil' people know they're evil [Re: Jellric]
    #3315205 - 11/03/04 10:37 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Jellric said:
I just am optimistic in the resourcefulness of my fellow humans. We have overcome huge obstacles before and I'm confident we will do so again!




:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineStrumpling
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Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
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Re: do 'evil' people know they're evil [Re: Muppet]
    #3318029 - 11/04/04 08:53 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Well first of all we would need to come to a consensus on what evil means..

Let's say we did - somebody could think of themSELVES as "anti-evil" but could perhaps see some of their own actions as "evil."

Sometimes, the evil ones say, evil activities are required for ultimately "anti-evil" returns.

My subjectivity gets in the way here..


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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