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OfflineSpiritualAtheist
Neophyte

Registered: 09/28/04
Posts: 25
Loc: Washington State
Last seen: 12 years, 13 days
Need Amanita Pantherina Advice
    #3316725 - 11/03/04 09:44 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Note: Please let me know ASAP if there is a better forum for this post to reside. This seemed the best fit to me, but I am new to this community.

I came across three A. Pantherinas walking through a park today. This is my first season of mushroom hunting and I have came up empty in my hunt for actives, but I have learned alot and enjoyed the process of opening my eyes up to fungi in general.

I have been keeping my eyes peeled for A. muscaria since it is very common here in the Puget Sound area, and even though most common sources of mushroom info list these as "poisonous", I have a read enough to the contrary to be convinced that there is a way to eat this species without significant danger. This seems to be largely related to how the A. muscaria is prepared and the amount consumed, as it is overdoses that lead to the "bad" muscaria experiences out there.

But I have not found muscaria, only these nice pantherinas. So I am looking for some sage advice from any experienced Amanita connoisseurs out there. Here are my questions:

1. Can Pantherinas also be safely consumed? Again most documentation I can find emphasize that these are "Deadly Poisonous", but there are also a lot of references to using this species with positive results.

(The following questions are only applicable if the answer to #1 is basically a yes...)

2. Can I just nibble on a small amount of the raw shroom to start to experiment with the needed dose? Or, what is the recommended way to prepare these shrooms for consumption and preferably minimizes any negative effects?

3. Can one comsume the Volva as well as the stalk/cap of this species? (One of the 3 I picked was relatively young, the volva is about the same size as the emerging cap.

4. When I did a vertical cross section to compare features to the text, I found a number of small (about 1mm diameter) "tunnels" running through the cap. I assume these are from insects of one sort or another. Should I be worried about contamination here, or is it just a form of protein :wink:? If boiling is recommended for this shroom, would this alleviate worries here?

Thanks for any advice you can supply here. I'm hoping I can use these shrooms safely, but I would rather be safe and if not I'll toss them.

Be Well!


--------------------
Wonder and awe at the universe is a product of observation and analysis. Fear and uncertainty a product of relying on comfortable beliefs.


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OfflineTodcasil
rogue DMT elf
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Registered: 08/09/99
Posts: 16,381
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Re: Need Amanita Pantherina Advice [Re: SpiritualAtheist]
    #3316883 - 11/03/04 10:13 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

you need to cook the panthers, to a nice well done.

i do not recomend eating panthers before trying muscaria.

read my sig, please.


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.


~Casil



:cactus:


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OfflineSpiritualAtheist
Neophyte

Registered: 09/28/04
Posts: 25
Loc: Washington State
Last seen: 12 years, 13 days
Re: Need Amanita Pantherina Advice [Re: Todcasil]
    #3317455 - 11/03/04 11:52 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks much for the advice and your informational link TodCasil. I am not however looking for the full blown Life/Death experience that you are referencing there however. I am more hoping to be able to acquire the subtle "Soma" experience.

I am boiling the shrooms right now to get rid of the I - acid. ANother question if I may... After boiling for an hour+ do I just retain the leftovers of the shrooms, or do I keep the leftover water and shroom. In other words does the I-acid steam off in the boiling process, or does it stay in the water (hence I should pour off the water).

thanks again and Be Well!


--------------------
Wonder and awe at the universe is a product of observation and analysis. Fear and uncertainty a product of relying on comfortable beliefs.


Edited by SpiritualAtheist (11/03/04 11:56 PM)


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InvisibleKoala Koolio
TTAGGGTTAGGGTTAGGGTTAGGG

Registered: 01/07/04
Posts: 7,752
Re: Need Amanita Pantherina Advice [Re: SpiritualAtheist]
    #3317540 - 11/04/04 12:07 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

From what I gather the panthers are harder to identify than muscaria, and there may be some very bad mushrooms that look simillar. careful, and best of luck.


--------------------
You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!


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OfflineSpiritualAtheist
Neophyte

Registered: 09/28/04
Posts: 25
Loc: Washington State
Last seen: 12 years, 13 days
Re: Need Amanita Pantherina Advice [Re: Koala Koolio]
    #3317610 - 11/04/04 12:22 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I really appreciate the warning, so thank you very much. I have been very careful about this.

I think from my research that there are not too many species that could be mistaken for A. Pantherina or A. Muscaria if one pays attention to the details, but if you have a specific warning for me please let me know so I can be sure.

BTW> A. Phalloides and the Death Angel are quite different in morphologu if that is what you are referring to as dangerous...


Be Well and Thanks!


--------------------
Wonder and awe at the universe is a product of observation and analysis. Fear and uncertainty a product of relying on comfortable beliefs.


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OfflineTodcasil
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Re: Need Amanita Pantherina Advice [Re: SpiritualAtheist]
    #3317616 - 11/04/04 12:24 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

you shuoldnt have boiled them :smile:

just simmer em with some butter or oil, and eat the mush...

it is the heat that breaks down the IAcid, the water may leach out the goodies.

i would only eat a half of an panther to start with guy, the y are very powerful


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.


~Casil



:cactus:


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OfflineSpiritualAtheist
Neophyte

Registered: 09/28/04
Posts: 25
Loc: Washington State
Last seen: 12 years, 13 days
Re: Need Amanita Pantherina Advice [Re: SpiritualAtheist]
    #3317652 - 11/04/04 12:34 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Well, after an hour of boiling, I ate about 1 teaspoon of the meat from these shrooms. I saved the remains in a tupperware bowl in the fridge.

I must say that the flavour of this mush was quite excellent. I wanted to eat more just cause of the taste, but of course had to hold off.

I'll post later, hopefully with positive results!

Thanks!


--------------------
Wonder and awe at the universe is a product of observation and analysis. Fear and uncertainty a product of relying on comfortable beliefs.


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Offlinegnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/30/99
Posts: 6,481
Loc: n. e. OH, USSA
Last seen: 2 months, 29 days
Re: Need Amanita Pantherina Advice [Re: SpiritualAtheist]
    #3318679 - 11/04/04 07:50 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

the ibotenic acid & the muscimol are fairly water soluble...
the ibotenic acid apparently decarboxylates into muscimol via heating (boiling in water may be sufficient for this process to occur; usually the shroom are prepared by drying & even roasting or toasting over a fire until dry)...
the majority of the interesting alkaloids are in the top skin of the cap (volva) & not much in the stem (stipes)...
a tea or even some sort of mushroom soup are sometimes used as methods of ingestion...
& as to taste - isoxazoles are the family of chems that include a substance considered "the fifth flavor" in japanese cooking & a little goes a long way :wink: ...

& of course, panther caps are usually much "stronger" than fly caps, so play carefully, mmmmkay?


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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Offlinegnrm23
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Registered: 08/30/99
Posts: 6,481
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Last seen: 2 months, 29 days
Re: Need Amanita Pantherina Advice [Re: SpiritualAtheist]
    #3318684 - 11/04/04 07:56 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

& check out some of the shroomery's amanita info at:
www.shroomery.org/index/par/23629
www.shroomery.org/index/par/23632


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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OfflineSpiritualAtheist
Neophyte

Registered: 09/28/04
Posts: 25
Loc: Washington State
Last seen: 12 years, 13 days
Re: Need Amanita Pantherina Advice [Re: gnrm23]
    #3320278 - 11/04/04 04:39 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Thank you for the advice and the links! A lot of my questions have been answered now, although I am having to extrapolate from muscaria to pantherina. Also your clarification on stipes/volva was also noted and is now integrated properly into my small but growing mushroom knowledgebase. I recently checked in my only reference which shows the parts of a shroom, so I was without my roadmap. So if I understand correctly, the volva is the cap, the stipes is the stem -- but what is the name for the underground bulbuous knob that Amanitas emerge from? The young specimen I excavated looked like a rotund number 8.

I am experimenting very carefully with these. The small dose I took last night had a very subtle effect that I am having a hard time describing. Kind of like a body buzz that was just on the fringe of consciousness, not really there yet noticeable. I had also imbibed a few beers last night, so this was a tainted experience.

I tried the same dosage about 30 minutes ago, and I am interested to see what this is like unmolested by ethanol.

Mushrooms are so cool. Everytime I go out walking now I see them all over the place and in so many different forms. One of those little wonders that I have walked past without noticing for too many years.

Ahh, well.

Thanks Again and Be Well!!!!!!


--------------------
Wonder and awe at the universe is a product of observation and analysis. Fear and uncertainty a product of relying on comfortable beliefs.


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OfflineSpiritualAtheist
Neophyte

Registered: 09/28/04
Posts: 25
Loc: Washington State
Last seen: 12 years, 13 days
Re: Need Amanita Pantherina Advice [Re: SpiritualAtheist]
    #3322612 - 11/05/04 02:04 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

TodCasil

Somehow I missed your earlier post where you told me to not Boil them. I not only boiled them. I boiled them for an hour. Lol.

I have noticed an affect after eating them, but its pretty subtle and weak.

So how long should saute them, so that I know that the IAcid is converted, yet the muscilin isn't cooked away?

At any rate this is a great tasting mushroom even after having the crap boiled out of it :wink:

And thanks for the warning, I was dosing at about 1-2 tsp. Being very careful with this shroom.

Be Well....


--------------------
Wonder and awe at the universe is a product of observation and analysis. Fear and uncertainty a product of relying on comfortable beliefs.


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> The Psychedelic Experience

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