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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
votergate
    #3314576 - 11/03/04 01:58 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

for what it's worth...

http://www.votergate.tv

decent documentary about Diebold and voting irregularities.

whether or not there were mistakes or corruption yesterday, I do not know nor am I suggesting there was - at this point, we do not know and certainly the thousands of papertrail-less ballots cannot tell us. anways, it's an interesting watch.


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OfflineRoseM
Devil's Advocate
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Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,290
Loc: Mod not God Flag
Last seen: 5 days, 1 hour
Re: votergate [Re: Vvellum]
    #3314814 - 11/03/04 02:39 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

For what it is worth, I do not think the Republicans would cheat like that.

These are the guys who admit there were no WMD's.

They are more honest than most libbies believe.

They have too much to loose by lying (I know... I know... no paper trail... but still...). From what I see, the Electronic ballots are reflective of the rest of the votes.


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Fiddlesticks.



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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: votergate [Re: Rose]
    #3314843 - 11/03/04 02:44 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

fair enough.

I know Republicans who have integrity
I know Republicans who would cheat and cheat.
vice versa with Democrats or any other party.

I think I personally am more concerned with the possibility and the enabling of such dishonesty with these questionable and possibly-faulty voting methods.

why exactly do we not have voting standards again? this shit should not be so complicated and easily-manulipated for anyone.


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OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
Re: votergate [Re: Vvellum]
    #3314970 - 11/03/04 03:02 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I think a lack of a paper trail should scare anyone. I don't think it is a political issue for the left or the right, just common sense. The most powerfull man in the world could be a brilliant computer hacker. Ancalagon could get the codes and we would all be wondering how Badnarik got elected yesterday.


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Tastes just like chicken


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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: votergate [Re: JesusChrist]
    #3314998 - 11/03/04 03:06 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)



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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Posts: 27,301
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Re: votergate [Re: Vvellum]
    #3315092 - 11/03/04 03:19 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I've actually been wondering about the effect that electronic voting has had on this election. Not just with Bush winning, but also with Prop 66 losing in California and Alaskans voting against legalization again. Now, maybe people are just way more stupid than I give them credit for, but this election seems to have just fallen into the right's hands more than I ever could have imagined.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: votergate [Re: silversoul7]
    #3315162 - 11/03/04 03:28 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Considering that the exit polls and the official vote counts were quite different across the board, I'd like to see the exit polls from where the Diebold machines were placed and compare with what was reported.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: votergate [Re: Vvellum]
    #3315259 - 11/03/04 03:48 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

That's fair.


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Fiddlesticks.



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InvisibleAnnapurna1
liberal pussy
Female User Gallery
Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
Re: votergate [Re: Vvellum]
    #3315618 - 11/03/04 05:14 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

bi0 said:
Considering that the exit polls and the official vote counts were quite different across the board, I'd like to see the exit polls from where the Diebold machines were placed and compare with what was reported.




the last gallup poll before the election gave kerry a substantial lead in OH and a slim lead in FL...yes..OH might very well have been stolen..but theres no way to prove it...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Invisiblepsilomonkey
Twisted brainwrong of a oneoff man mental

Registered: 08/08/03
Posts: 812
Loc: Airstrip One
Re: votergate [Re: Annapurna1]
    #3315712 - 11/03/04 05:43 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)


OH might very well have been stolen..but theres no way to prove it...


We have a saying, "It is not enough that justice be fair, it must also be seen to be fair".

The lack of an audit trail brings into question the electoral process, and therefore the legitimacy of the winner. All politicians should be concerned with that.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,199
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: votergate [Re: Vvellum]
    #3315940 - 11/03/04 06:51 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

A paper trail should be required.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 1 year, 22 days
Re: votergate [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #3316063 - 11/03/04 07:26 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

New York has these voting machines that have been in use since at least the sixties. You go in and move a big lever aside. The curtain closes and there is a panel with several small levers, each directly over the name of the candidate, which are in rows based on party affiliation and columns based on office sought. You move as many of the little levers you want and then move the big lever and the curtain opens and the little ones reset to zero. There is no paper trail and I have never heard of any fraud other than the outright theft of a machine. Why do any other states fuck around with anything else?


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OfflineRoseM
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Registered: 09/24/03
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Re: votergate [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3316073 - 11/03/04 07:28 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I love NY voting booths.


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Fiddlesticks.



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Invisible1stimer
Religion=Rape
Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1,280
Loc: Amerika
Re: votergate [Re: Vvellum]
    #3331210 - 11/07/04 10:25 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

i wonder when the media is going to get off its ass and report about this.


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ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.


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Offlinephi1618
old hand

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
Re: votergate [Re: 1stimer]
    #3331322 - 11/07/04 10:56 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Votes need to be auditable.

I don't believe that whatever fraud occered in this election was significant enough to change the result (though I acknowlege the possibility), but it election fraud should be made as difficult as possible.

A voter-verified paper trail would be very good, and probably the most secure method we could manage - though complicated and expensive. However, even a very good and independently verifiable electronic audit trail might be good enough. What we have is pure shit.

I've looked at blackboxvoting.org (not .com) - I think in principle it's a good idea to have a volenteer voter organization audit the vote. I haven't donated money to their organization, though, because I'm not impressed that they really know what their looking for, or have the competance needed for the audit. They are taking the position that fraud did occur, and now their just trying to prove it. They strike me as being very partisan.


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