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Invisiblespudamore
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Obtaining personal answers
    #3313052 - 11/03/04 08:46 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

why settle for beliefs when answers are available through personal experience?


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suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem


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Offlineckyrock
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Re: Obtaining personal answers [Re: spudamore]
    #3315310 - 11/03/04 03:57 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I agree with you. Since I have gotten over a stage of depression and suicidal tendencies in my life, I have begun to be more spiritual. I keep some ties to my church on which I was baptized in (Roman Catholic). I have found though that there are many beliefs in this religion and all others that I don't believe, and there are some in each I do believe. I define myself as a Christian with my own ways to worship. Religions are man-made. I think that people of any religion will be going into an afterlife with the higher being because they worship a higher being (God, Buddha, ect.) Follow your heart. Do whats right to you. Believe.


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InvisibleJellric
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Re: Obtaining personal answers [Re: spudamore]
    #3315375 - 11/03/04 04:11 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

It depends upon ones degree of spiritual evolution. In general, religion is for young souls. It consists of rigid laws and codes to impose discipline from without since they are incapable of imposing discipline from within. I think religion is absolutely necessary for some people for that reason. They need a stern, Super-parental figure or they will fall into chaos. You get the level of teaching you are capable of understanding.

Someone came up with this metaphor for religion, and I like it very much: Religion is like a ladder. You walk up it to the roof, and then you can set it aside. It has served its purpose. Once you begin to directly contact the Source, you no longer need it. Why get your truth served up to you in church when you can cut out the middleman?


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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Obtaining personal answers [Re: spudamore]
    #3318007 - 11/04/04 01:50 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

OK so I should just stop guessing and kill myself to find out once and for all?

fuck that, bro!

And besides, I can't search the whole universe yet either - my vessel seems to be stuck in this wet sack of human organs and unable to explore the universe.


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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Invisiblespudamore
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Re: Obtaining personal answers [Re: Strumpling]
    #3318051 - 11/04/04 01:58 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

the thing i find funny is how people interprate statements....


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Invisiblespudamore
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Re: Obtaining personal answers [Re: spudamore]
    #3318061 - 11/04/04 02:00 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

OK so I should just stop guessing and kill myself to find out once and for all?

guessing isn't a belief..


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OfflineNuperSova
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Re: Obtaining personal answers [Re: spudamore]
    #3319210 - 11/04/04 11:56 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I understand your stance, but personal experience can not account for entities such as an afterlife, so ultimately, we all have to settle for what we believe. And furthermore, personal experience seems to lend itself more cohesively to the idea of logic and reason, and in this case, there is no need to belive in anything at all, other than absoulte scientific reasoning.

Chryssi


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I Refuse To Say I'm Lost Just Because I Don't Know Where I Am


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Offlinegotmagog
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Re: Obtaining personal answers [Re: NuperSova]
    #3319266 - 11/04/04 12:10 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

An interesting discussion.
I like the interpretation of religion and faith versus personal choice and interpretations. What would be best in life,a balance between the two, or mastreing one of the extremes , like total faith in god and the bible, or total scientific-rational materialism?

I myself am rational and thinking in the last few years, even with my psychedelic use. But I somehow feel that faith is necessary, but still am skeptical. One day I might change and incorporate more beliefs in my lifeview.

On the other hand this whole discussion is rather rational, and a true believer will dismiss it because he already knows and their personal experinces are irrelevant. Lack of tolerance for other's beliefs might be a disadvantage of the more religious people.

A bit off topic, but the religion versus reason thing is like a good interpretaion for the elections04. The conflct of reason and faith in the 21st century.

So, what do u think about this definition of the 2 concepts?


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OfflineNuperSova
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Re: Obtaining personal answers [Re: gotmagog]
    #3319376 - 11/04/04 12:51 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I think I understand your definition, and I think that it is right on, in that in our society that is exactly what we have now!

I think the middleground between 'faith & reasoning' is perhaps existent in everyone, to some extent. If only for the fact that one's faith has to be somewhat 'reason'ably interpreted and understood enough for a group of people to be able to come to some general concensus about it, and then be able to live by/follow it. The sketchy part comes in when you debate to what degree, and in what situations actual scientific logic comes into play. And this seems to be where people develop poetic licensing and selective understanding i.e. seeing what they want to see in something...

And for those persons that are completely logical, for some reason, I think as humans, we encompass the 'fault' (perhaps a gift) of wanting to belive in something higher to counteract all of the negativity that life can offer. Otherwise, we are left on our own, trying to reason with life--something perhaps to be completely understood via logic--only that does not help us when we as emotional beings feel that there is no logic to life.

Chryssi


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I Refuse To Say I'm Lost Just Because I Don't Know Where I Am


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Obtaining personal answers [Re: NuperSova]
    #3319456 - 11/04/04 01:13 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

why settle for beliefs or answers when it is available through personal experience? :P


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Obtaining personal answers [Re: Gomp]
    #3319760 - 11/04/04 02:35 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Noone could make as many experiences in a lifetime to fulfill all wishes for believes. But believes are nescessary to strive forward, to some target or goal.
If we experienced everything, our beliefs would change into knowledge and we reach true nirvana. At this time, it's our total free decision to reincarnate as an avatar, or a kind of messias.

But the bigger goal should be, to approach believe and experience, spirit and science, eachother, to get them nearer together, to finally see, if there is something (at least) misterious between them. If, then what and why ?
If g*d is everything, then he fits perfectly well into science while outlarging it enormously :grin:


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
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"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Invisiblespudamore
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Re: Obtaining personal answers [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #3320632 - 11/04/04 06:16 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

one of the reasons i brought this up is because one was wondering what people define or definition of personal???

and if that comes in to conflict with knowing about themselves..


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suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem


Edited by spudamore (11/04/04 06:17 PM)


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