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OfflineRazz
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Registered: 09/25/03
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Debate:Weed in Bible
    #3310998 - 11/02/04 08:43 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I had a really good friend last year. I mean we were tight, and he was cool as hell we were almost always stoned out of our mind and just enjoying ourselves. Until reasently he sort of moved away for a while and when he got back he totally changed. He hadn't smoked weed or anything for a while. Then he says hes all religious and junk. He says he doesn't want anything to do with any of that stuff.
Well anyways after all this I try to talk to him one day and see why he thinks weed is wrong. I personlly beleive marijuana is all through the bible, and like in (Genisis 1:29) God gave all seed bearing herbs for man to consume. It is also here for many other reasons such as creativity,spirituality,relaxation,study,and many more reasons.
He beleives marijuana is wrong! His only reasons are he says the bible says not to cloud your mind, and obey the law of man. If this had anything to do with using weed then thats like saying not to eat sugar,caffeine,or wine at all. They all effect you even in the smallest way, And we all know Jesus would drink wine. How is that any different from smoking a joint which does a lot more for you. And if we have to obey mans law then your saying it's right to worship other gods where thats the law in other countries.
His next argument is "Well I don't need weed to be creative,spiritual,or to relax." We all can, but he doesn't realize marijuana is there for us to understand or realize things we would never had before.
Anyway this all comes down to he wants to have a debate using actual information and bible verses to see if it really is right or not. I'm not trying to change his beliefs I just want him to legitamitly show why he thinks hes right, and what he's basing his opinion on.
Now the reason i'm talking to ya'll is I was wondering what some good arguments for or against it actually being in the Bible. I'd also like to see some bible verses some of you might have come a cross.
I have a few refrences pionting to it being in the bible and going against mans law for special reasons.
Genisis 1:12,29-31
Exodus 30:22-23
Psalm 104:14-15
Matthew 12:1-2,10-16


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OfflineMAGnum
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Re: Debate:Weed in Bible [Re: Razz]
    #3311013 - 11/02/04 08:48 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Weed is not in the Bible.

"You may drink of the wine, but do not get drunk of it."


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Invisiblechodamunky
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Re: Debate:Weed in Bible [Re: Razz]
    #3311075 - 11/02/04 09:04 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

hah, the same thing happened to my friend as well. After highschool he moved away for university and during school break I met up with him and he had told me he joined a Christian club in his school. He had always been a Christian but he changed so much during those few short months. He is still a good guy, but his attitudes to things like drugs changed dramatically, he now believes his life is completely ruled by Jesus and God and he has to submit himself completely to Christianity. Since he knows I'm not religious he doesn't think my 'path' in life is the right one since I'm not following Jesus. I just don't get it, how could people change so quickly and so dramatically?


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OfflineRazz
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Re: Debate:Weed in Bible [Re: MAGnum]
    #3311091 - 11/02/04 09:07 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

You may drink wine and not get drunk, but you don't have to get drunk to feel it. You may also smoke/eat weed and not get "high"
In Psalm 104:14-15 it talks about God gave the wine and herbs for man to consume and to make him glad.emphasizing it to be used for relaxtion or possibly recreational use when it says to make man glad.
The bilbe even has direct refrence to cannabis when talking about the ingredients to sacred ointments saying kanehbosm the root kan meaning root or hemp and bosm meaning aromatic. The word later translated from the ancient hebrew term to now known as cannabis.


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OfflineRazz
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Re: Debate:Weed in Bible [Re: chodamunky]
    #3311109 - 11/02/04 09:11 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I agree how can people change so quickly and dramaticly it's kind of scary. Another thing I'm not sure if he's getting the stuff he say from other ignorant followers or if hes coming up with it. Because he'll say things I know he knows isn't true seeing he smoked it so much and knows what it can do.


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InvisiblezSDMF
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Re: Debate:Weed in Bible [Re: chodamunky]
    #3311121 - 11/02/04 09:14 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

link me directly to scripture that says jesus drank wine. he turned water into wine, but i've never read jesus directly drinking wine.

paul once said that you can drink unless it offends people, including yourself. if it does, then its a problem and you should stop.

google up 'manna and psilocybin mushrooms.' there is interesting arguments on the use of psilocybin in the bible.

many oils linked to jesus christ were compromised of cannabis in hebrew origin. i read this on 420.com. as far as all your friends changing, let them change. all hearts can change, i firmly believe that. if they feel contempt with the path they're paving, support them or drop them. don't try to send them on a guilt trip, especially if they are supporting themselves.

there are so many ways to interprit the christian bible, as it's so unclear at times and quite frankly.. vague. all people can do is argue how they feel about certain scriptures and what it means to them, a concrete definition can't be established because it's really not a concrete book. follow your heart.


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: Debate:Weed in Bible [Re: Razz]
    #3311157 - 11/02/04 09:24 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

"saying weed is bad is like saying god made a mistake."-hicks

or something to that effect

:wink:


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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OfflineRazz
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Re: Debate:Weed in Bible [Re: zSDMF]
    #3311158 - 11/02/04 09:24 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Dude, I totally agree on letting people change, and if thats what he wants so be it. Like I was trying to say when I ask why everything he said either didn't make sense of had no kind of backup. So he challenged me to find more reason why it's not wrong and to debate.
Although it's true I don't think I've ever come accross jesus actually drinking wine himself but do you think he would have turned water into wine if it was wrong?
heres a good site ya'll might want to check out about this whole subject. http://www.cannabisculture.com/backissues/cc11/christ.html


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Offlineld50negative1
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Re: Debate:Weed in Bible [Re: Razz]
    #3311156 - 11/02/04 09:24 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

The only reason we aren't to get drunk is because the Bible talks about how drunkenness can lead to more immorality IE premarital sex. Also, we aren't supposed to let anything master us IE addiction. So gettin' high every now and then shouldn't be bad IMO. Getting high, getting drunk, or killing a person all equal the same thing. There are no levels of sin against God. There is only rebellion against the moral standards set by God. So if you were to get high on mj all the time it would be safe to say you are "mastered" and letting your love for mj take precedence over love for God - because if you keep lovin God you wouldn't need to smoke mj all the damned time.

Also, on the question about how people change so drastically is because the love found thru Jesus is real - if you are a Christian your soul longs to be in the presence/love of God... if you get off track into immorality the Holy Spirit is constantly telling you to stop and come back, but the choice is ultimately yours to ignore and continue in your rebellion or repent. It's not until you realize SHIT! I've gotten off track that you repent and go back to God - when you do that you won't want to go back into rebellion... so alot of people give up ALOT of things so that they won't be tempted back into that rebellion. Even after a person becomes a Christian they are still in their earthly body. "the spirit is willing, but the body is weak"... and so it makes sense to give up extra alot of things to stay close..

but then again.. you'd have to be a Christian to understand what I'm saying here I guess.... I don't know how many you are, but thats me 2 cents


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OfflineJCoke
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Re: Debate:Weed in Bible [Re: Razz]
    #3311183 - 11/02/04 09:31 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Matthew 11:18-19

For John the Baptist often goes without eating and has never touched a drop of liquor his whole life, and they say, "He has a demon in him." and I, the messiah came eating my food and drinking my liquor, and they say, "He is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and of the worst sort of sinners." But truly, wisdom is proved by what results from it.

Romans 14:14-23

I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died. Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil; for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. For he who serves Christ in these things is acceptable to God and approved by men.
Therefore let us pursue the things which make for peace and the things by which one may edify another. Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense. It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak. Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.



so basicly, if you smoke weed and you truly feel it's good between you and God, you're ok, and if your friend is done smoking weed than good for him, there's no point in letting this get between you two, there's more to friendship than just getting high together (though I had alot of those kinda friends way back when :smile: )


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hello, your name is life on earth
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"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.


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OfflineJCoke
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Re: Debate:Weed in Bible [Re: JCoke]
    #3311209 - 11/02/04 09:39 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

zSDMF, was that the scripture you were looking for?


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hello, your name is life on earth
------------------------------------

"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Debate:Weed in Bible [Re: JCoke]
    #3311214 - 11/02/04 09:41 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

respect his choice, but make your own. Dont feel the need to justify your actions by selectively quoting a millenia old book. All things of this world are given to us do with as we see fit, according to our own morals and ethics.

"cant make you believe because cuz a tree is a tree but when my soul bleeds the colour that im spillin is green"-KMK

seriously though the time may come when you feel weed is no longer needed in YOUR life too, and thats good and healthy, just apreciate the good times you had with it and know that more good times await you without it.


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Everything I post is fiction. This poster is no longer active.


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OfflineRazz
Grim Reefer

Registered: 09/25/03
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Re: Debate:Weed in Bible [Re: JCoke]
    #3311228 - 11/02/04 09:45 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Exactly I have no problem with him not smoking I just asked why. Thats when he who says is so christian put me eating or smoking weed inbetween us. Instead of letting it be he tells me i'm wrong and challenges a debate which i'm open to by stating and backing up my opinion. I have no ententions of it changing our friendship I just want to learn and see why I think what I do also.
It's also strange he is the one stating to be the die hard christian, yet i'm the one worryed about maintaining our freindship


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InvisiblezSDMF
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Re: Debate:Weed in Bible [Re: JCoke]
    #3311233 - 11/02/04 09:46 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

JCoke said:
zSDMF, was that the scripture you were looking for?




i said that i never found any direct refrences to jesus christ drinking or using any 'mind-altering' substances, though admittedly, i never really looked.

not to say that jesus never drank, smoked.. whatever, i'm just saying i never remember reading that he did.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Debate:Weed in Bible [Re: Razz]
    #3311262 - 11/02/04 09:55 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Jesus didn't smoke any weed anymore than he ate shrooms. Weed and the Bible are unrelated. Why does your friend sound like he is being unreasonable to you. To me it sounds like he caught himself and got his head on straight. His religion may not be a permenant thing, but it may be enough to keep him out of that scene until he accomplishes something. I don't need weed either as I have not tried it in over 15 years.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineJCoke
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Re: Debate:Weed in Bible [Re: zSDMF]
    #3311264 - 11/02/04 09:56 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

haha, yea that's one of those scriptures that seem sorta hush hush in the christian community.  :wink:


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hello, your name is life on earth
------------------------------------

"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.


Edited by JCoke (11/02/04 10:56 PM)


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OfflineIrishGuy
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Re: Debate:Weed in Bible [Re: zSDMF]
    #3311288 - 11/02/04 10:04 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

At the wedding in cannae, Jesus had to make more bread and fish in order to feed the growing number of people.  In addition he ordered the "good" wine to be dranken first, and then the lesser quality wine to be brought out.  The only clear conclusion i can draw from jesus bringing out the poor wine second is that the people would not be able to tell the difference or would have less of a negative reaction to the poor wine because their minds were already altered. In other words they were drunk.  The bible does not condone this and imbibing alcohol is not considered bad in the catholic church and a many of other christian denominations.  The key however is moderation.  If a substance is used to often, your mind starts diverting away from god and that substance becomes in essence your "god".  This would go under the classifcation of the 1st commandment, thou shalt not worship any god but me.  This is the only way, however, a drug could be considered sinful.  Also if the drug is harming you or people around you it is considered sinful.  A drug used with temperance is acceptable and expected.
:spliff:


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OfflineRazz
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Registered: 09/25/03
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Re: Debate:Weed in Bible [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3311309 - 11/02/04 10:09 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

First jesus never smoked. he was baptized by John the baptist he was secreted in the oil which put the holy spirit in him (making him "high") He also used the ointments on many others against the law of the Kings of Israel.
I also know yes no one necessarily "needs" weed, but you can't argue that it does nothing and that it can't help. Like I said before I respect he doesn't want to use weed. I just want to know his reason. If he doesn't because he just don't want to or if he wants to figure things out go ahead. Although marijuana can help you get through or figure out things. His excuse well the bible says it's wrong is irrational. I just want he and I to know why he is doing something


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Edited by Razz (11/02/04 10:13 PM)


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Debate:Weed in Bible [Re: Razz]
    #3311591 - 11/02/04 11:08 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

basically the bible and jesus preach stewardship, which is respecting your god given gifts (of mind body and healthy) and not abusing them. If your use of ANYTHING substance or action or thought, crosses the line into abuse of those gifts, god presumably doesnt want that, but thats just cuz god wants whats best for you.


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Everything I post is fiction. This poster is no longer active.


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Onlinedeff
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Re: Debate:Weed in Bible [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3311619 - 11/02/04 11:13 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Such a cute view of the world, isn't it? :laugh:


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