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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Hunting and Identification
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Are these the same, or a different species (pics)
    #330960 -
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Okay, here's some more photos. These may or may not be the same species I posted earlier this week. They have the same basic characteristics(separable pellicle,purple-brown sporeprint, habitat), but they look different. I always find these when I find the others(from earlier this week). The only difference (besides their outward appearance) is that these are found on extremely decomposed hardwood mulch, while the other mushies are found on fresh mulch.When they dry out they look like the same mushrooms. Maybe the type of substrate has something to do with their appearance.
Sorry about the quality of some of these pics, but I was in a hurry .

Arguing with a woman, is like trying to blow out a light bulb.

Edited by doo on 05/31/01 08:47 PM.



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Re: Are these the same, or a different species (pics) [Re: doo]
    #330964 -
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Another pic.

Arguing with a woman, is like trying to blow out a light bulb.

Edited by doo on 05/31/01 08:50 PM.



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Re: Are these the same, or a different species (pics) [Re: doo]
    #330966 -
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I tried Mj's trick ,using a red background to help show any possible bluing.

Arguing with a woman, is like trying to blow out a light bulb.

Edited by doo on 05/31/01 08:54 PM.



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Re: Are these the same, or a different species (pics) [Re: doo]
    #330971 -
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They seem to have a bluish cast to some of them, but it may just be wishful thinking. You can see the mycelium on the mulch in the bottom left hand corner.
I'll check back tomorrow and see what ya'lls opinoins are.

Arguing with a woman, is like trying to blow out a light bulb.

Edited by doo on 05/31/01 09:01 PM.



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Re: Are these the same, or a different species (pics) [Re: doo]
    #330972 -

im betting its the same, especially if you picked them in the same spot.

thou speakest arite
i am the merry wanderer of the night


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Re: Are these the same, or a different species (pics) [Re: Mitchnast]
    #330980 -

I believe they are also the same, Mitch.They just have a different look, not as nut-brown in color as the others.They aren't dried out, even though they look kind of dry looking. Like I said earlier, I beleive it's the type of material they grow on, that gives them this look.

doo

Arguing with a woman, is like trying to blow out a light bulb.


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Re: Are these the same, or a different species (pics) [Re: doo]
    #331084 -

Doo, I am still looking through my folders of negatives for some pictures which I label thorty yeears ago. They are not a psychoactive species of anything.

If you do find something psychoactive you will really know it.

Since yoiu are sure they are not becasue you hacvcent tried to eat any of them.

I find them in the alder at clearcuts alot.

But they are not psilocybes either. I still think they are a naematoloma.

mj

THere is a cetqin distinct look of a blue staing caerulescent shroom and once you find that blue you never foret it oor its many variations.

Have a shroomy day and may all of your days be shroomy.


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Re: Are these the same, or a different species (pics) [Re: mjshroomer]
    #331565 -

Thanks for looking into it for me Mj. If you can find the photos, please post'em.
If these are not active, I think it will be helpful for mushroom hunters to recognize them for what they are, considering they share a lot of the same traits as the psilocybes, and could easily be confused with a psilocybe.
Also if you have any info or pics on the species Psilocybe caerulipes, besides what's in Audubon,and Stamet's book, I would greatly appreciate it. I've tried to get Alexander Smith's book, but I've not had any luck. It may be out of print.
I think Levi7 made an interesting point regarding this species(caerulipes). It's been listed far longer than lots of the other species, yet no one seems to be able to find it or much info on it.
I've been searching for P.caerulipes in my area for over 20 years, with no luck, but I'm still determined to find it.
Thanks again,

doo

Arguing with a woman, is like trying to blow out a light bulb.


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Re: Are these the same, or a different species (pics) [Re: doo]
    #331703 -

Hi Doo,

actually P. cubensis was the most listed species of magic shroom followed by the mistaken identdy of Panaeolina foenisecii and Panaeolus sphinctrinus.

P. cubensis is in many books buit the only book to originally show P. caerulipes was Alxander H. Smiths Field Guide to Easternn Mushrooms. I am not sure of the exact title since I no longer have the book.

He was the first person to publish the name in a mushroom id guide for edibles. With a colored photograph.

Someone from OHIO just posted some pictures of what might be P. caerulipes.

I have a black and white photo under the name at my site:

http://mjshroomer.yage.net/species.html

Guzman wrote that this species is often solitary to commonly densley caepitose or sometimes gregarious on rotted wood covered by or free of mosses in deciduous forests, fruiting in Summer and fall. Known only from the eastern USA, Canada and Mexico. Somethimes around Fagus forests.

Material studied by Guzman included several collections in numerous areas of Michigan, New York state Cleaveland Ohio, Tennessee and Mexico.

I believe the shrooms found here at the shroomery from Ohio are P. caerulipes.

It was named in 1887 by Peck and later amended by Sacc. Murril described it in his mushrom book in 1923, and Smith And Hesler described it in 1938 and Orson K. Miller in 1972 all reporting this species from North America. SInger and Smith (1958) were the first to note that it was a hallucinogenic mushrooms and chemical analysis by Leung et al, 1965 verified its hallucinogenic properties.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Now regarding your find. As I noted a they are not hallucinogenic but here is the first of five emails I sent out regarding your shrooms.

I still canot find my notes and photos but I will keep up on this.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXx

From Tjakko Stijve of Nestles.

Hello John,

Unfortunately, I have not been able to identify the 'shroom.
I spent some time at comparing the photograph with images of suitable
candidates in field guides. Even consulted Romagnesi and Imazeki.
I can't even identify it to genus! As a matter of fact, it cd be a
small
Cortinarius, as well as a Alnicola, Hypholoma or at the last choice a non-hallucinogenic Psilocybe. To begin
with, the picture does not show its gills, which wd have been helpful
to
reduce the possibilities.
Dont you have any material that you cd send to Guzman or Lorelei
Norvell?

Sorry, but I can't help you.

I also rcvd Stamets' GGMM book. Have reviewed it in several European
periodicals. Have several papers in press and hope to send you soon
reprints.
Have a great Pentecost! TJAKKO

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX\

I'll get back to you on this during the weekend sometime.

Mj


Have a shroomy day and may all of your days be shroomy.


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Re: Are these the same, or a different species (pics) [Re: mjshroomer]
    #331746 -
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Mj, I do have some pics showing the gills from the first specimens I posted earlier this week, just never got around to posting them. I'm gonna add'em to this thread. Sorry about the quality of the pics, but I always have trouble taking the closeups.
I also have taken several sporeprints if you 'd like'em. Also have kept all the samples.


Arguing with a woman, is like trying to blow out a light bulb.

Edited by doo on 06/01/01 05:45 PM.



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Re: Are these the same, or a different species (pics) [Re: doo]
    #331749 -
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Another shot of the gills.

Arguing with a woman, is like trying to blow out a light bulb.

Edited by doo on 06/01/01 05:49 PM.



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Re: Are these the same, or a different species (pics) [Re: doo]
    #331762 -

They sure have that caerulescent look to me. I still say they are Ps. caerulipes.



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Re: Are these the same, or a different species (pics) [Re: Lizard King]
    #331782 -

I know what you mean Lizard King. But I think I'm just gonna be patient, Mj seems to be trying his best to help me get a correct ID. Either way, if they're magic,I'll be a happy hunter,and if they're not, we will all be that much more educated to not confuse it with the real thing, cause they sure possess enough of the psilocybe genus's characteristics to fool a lot of people.
Last year they fruited from May, off and on all the way through September, so hopefully there shouldn't be any shortage of them this year either(just in case).
It's stopped raining, so I'm gonna go look for some more.(Now if I could luck up and find some of those weilii's, I'd really be shitting in high cotton)

doo

Arguing with a woman, is like trying to blow out a light bulb.


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Re: Are these the same, or a different species (pics) [Re: doo]
    #331801 -

Yeah, with all the confusion over what mushrooms this could be, I'd say its best to sit tight and see what you can find out. Definately go looking for more though. You may find better or different specimens of the same specie that could help figure this out.






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Re: Are these the same, or a different species (pics) [Re: Lizard King]
    #331807 -

Hi Lizard King, they are not Psicloybe caerulipes..

I'll be back in a few days and hope to find the notes and photos by then.

P. caerulipes is yellow/straw colored in the caps with age and those are a redish color.

mj


Have a shroomy day and may all of your days be shroomy.


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Re: Are these the same, or a different species (pics) [Re: mjshroomer]
    #331837 -

they look straw-colored in their age to me.

thou speakest arite
i am the merry wanderer of the night


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Re: Are these the same, or a different species (pics) [Re: doo]
    #332272 -

Well Tjakko Stijve has broken the identification down to a hypholoma, Stropharia or a Psilocybe, but still a non psychoactive species.

In the mean time I sent a letter ot Professor noordeloos, the man y9ou created the Psilocybe genera for identification and I am still looking in my files.

mj

patience is virtue.

Have a shroomy day and may all of your days be shroomy.


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Re: Are these the same, or a different species (pics) [Re: doo]
    #332333 -

I've got to say a few things that pertain to the statement I gave before on this mushroom picture from doo and more.
First of all, MJ has the literature in hand to reputibly say that Ps. cubensis was the most well-known mushroom at the time of whenever he didn't know I was pertaining to. Again, from my study of many books that were printed before 1980, the only Psylocybe mushroom that was listed was Ps. Caerulipes(blue-staining) and there was never a mention of Ps. cubensis whatsoever. Ps. caerulipes was a mushroom found in eastern U.S. that was definitely distinct in its bluing reaction aswell as its tendency to put an individual in an altered state. Well said, I must say!
Also, the east coast doesnt' have the "psychadelic" culture that the PNW has. Given that, I'll have to say that maybe the only recorded mushrooms proven to be Ps. caerulipes may have only grown on rotten wood, etc. , but you must consider that per say: Ps. Stuntzii was naturally a field-dweller. Now, you can find Ps. Stuntzii almost year-round in well-fertilized, maintained, manicured lawns in the PNW.
I believe the same conditions can occur for Ps. caerulipes. In my well-formed mushroom-brain, I put Ps. Stuntzii and Ps. caerulipes in the same catergory and consider them brothers on opposite sides of the nation. -----
O.K., MJ has a B&W photo on his web-page, Yay for MJ! I know now that he's never dealt with this mushroom, although, you'll see in a few hours or so from now, he'll say he has and refer to some other story.
Here's the deal, doo!- What you have is a visionary mushroom. I know it, as well as many others. MJ will not accept it, because he doesn't know it, so I am absolutely 100% behind you on this and I hope you'll take more pics of the older specimens! You've got magic, bro!
Stay cool, doo!-Levli7


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Re: Are these the same, or a different species (pics) [Re: Levi7]
    #332883 -

Sorry again Levi7,

That is not a psychoactive mushroom and I would bet my whole library on it. I have picked and colelcted that particular mushroom in jacksonville Florida inthe late 1970s and also have seen it in clearcuts and at the Seattle Arboretum and in Washing ton Park in Portland Orgeon.

You can believe all you want in fact maybe Doo should send you some for you to bioassay.

Have a shroomy day, I will be back on this. Its like I really ahve time to dig around through ten thoudand photographs when someone there doubts something.

mj

Have a shroomy day and may all of your days be shroomy.


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Re: Are these the same, or a different species (pics) [Re: Levi7]
    #335983 -

Didn't mean to start an argument. We're here to help each other identify mushrooms,not argue over them (although I'll admit, if no one argued or always took what someone else said as the truth, then a lot of cool and interesting things would have never been discovered).
I understand what you're saying Levi7,with regards to the stuntzii, it's habitat range is fairly broad, considering what people knew of its habitat a few years ago. Until I discovered this site and Stamet's book, I would have only looked for P. stuntzii on wood. Now I know it can also be found in lawns and grassy areas in the Pacific Northwest. The same may be true of P.caerulipes in the Southeast.
As for info about psilocybin mushrooms in the Southeastern U.S., it is mostly dealing with coprophilic species, while there's very little info on lignicolous(wood-lovers) species.It's probably because of the ease in looking in cow pastures, compared to the difficulty in searching wooded areas.
But there are new species starting to be found in the Southeast, Psilocybe weilii is a good example.I think there's a chance of other species to be found, we just have to keep searching.
I also understand why you think these mushrooms I found could be magic.There resemblance to other active species is uncanny(to me anyway). I'm not disagreeing with you. At the same time I can't disagree with Mj either.There are psilocybe species which aren't active also.I value each of your opinions and experience.
I'm just gonna wait and see, and keep taking prints, samples and pics until I know everything there is to know about this species.
Mj, I have another, better pic of the gills if it will help.
Thanks for the support from all the hunters here at the Shroomery.
Now ya'll behave.

doo



Arguing with a woman, is like trying to blow out a light bulb.


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Re: Are these the same, or a different species (pics) [Re: doo]
    #335990 -

Right on, doo! I have a habit of arguing sometimes. MJ has much, much, much more experience than I do. Although, he doesn't seem to have many personal references to Ps. caerulipes. On the other hand, he probably has tons of experience in running into the Naematolomas. Last fall, the Naematolomas were everywhere! So, I can see how easy it is to pass off an "unknown" or "not positively identified Psilocbye" as a Naematoloma. I probably would have just passed them over myself. The reason being the habitat they were found in and the ease of identification in the common species found here in the PNW. As for you, though, I think it's great that you brought this species to The Shroomery. The decription fits. If those mushrooms don't contain psilocybin or psilocin, you better beat 'em until they decide to.
Stay cool, and I guess I wiil to!-Levi7.


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Hunting and Identification
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