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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
The Power of Voting
    #3307275 - 11/02/04 12:48 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Nice to know that your single vote has about as much chance of influencing the outcome of the election as of you winning the lottery with a single ticket.

Add in the fact that your candidate is not legally bound to honor a single promise and may himself vote for  hundreds of issues over the years that you disagree with...

Gawd I feel so fucking democractic, powerful and free!  :crazy:

I really want to vote to not be put in jail for a non-crime and not have it over-turned.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleHeruuka
member
Registered: 10/16/99
Posts: 313
Re: The Power of Voting [Re: Swami]
    #3307339 - 11/02/04 01:04 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

strength in numbers, voting isn't about YOU, its about expressing the collective will. If you dont vote, youre not part of the decision making process. Thats all there is to it. Vote if you want to affect political change, or dont if you want political change to affect you.


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OfflinePsilygirl
cyan goddess
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Registered: 08/28/03
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Re: The Power of Voting [Re: Heruuka]
    #3307370 - 11/02/04 01:10 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

i find it very ironic how strongly we stress democracy towards other nations...and at the same time our presidential election isn't democratic. last time i checked, democracy didnt involve this "electoral college"

i voted, because i hope the collective voice will be heard... but its a silly system...


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"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing.' Between the two, my life flows."


Puget Sound Mycological Society


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OfflineAhronZombi
AhronZombi

Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 1,265
Loc: NY
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Re: The Power of Voting [Re: Psilygirl]
    #3307392 - 11/02/04 01:15 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

screw the system REAL AMERICANS DONT VOTE


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OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: The Power of Voting [Re: AhronZombi]
    #3307490 - 11/02/04 01:48 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I like the electoral college. Otherwise people in my native area would have absolutely no say in national politics.


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1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: The Power of Voting [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3307504 - 11/02/04 01:56 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I agree,

Although the Electoral College currently helps the Republicans more than the Democrats, it is still a nice perk for living in a less populated state.

Without the electoral college, a Cantidate wouldn't need any states between the two coasts. That is a lot of land, and people, who would not have as much of a voice without the EC.

Remember, the EC helps to make sure Presidents remember the heartland AFTER they are elected. This is important. There are fewer people in the heartland, but they live on America's most fertile soil.


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Fiddlesticks.



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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: The Power of Voting [Re: Psilygirl]
    #3307547 - 11/02/04 02:12 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)


i find it very ironic how strongly we stress democracy towards other
nations...and at the same time our presidential election isn't
democratic. last time i checked, democracy didnt involve
this "electoral college"


The electoral college was put in place to ensure that smaller less
populated states have somewhat of a say in a national election. i.e.
it helps the little guy.


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InvisibleGijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
Re: The Power of Voting [Re: Swami]
    #3307583 - 11/02/04 02:24 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Well, for any voters in Ohio who don't have blonde hair and blue eyes, be warned. A judge just overturned the federal ruling on voter challenging, which had just been decided this afternoon. The republican party will place something like 10,000 challengers at the polls. If you're a minority, expect harassment, along with the possible forfeit of your vote.

People in both parties should be ashamed of themselves for letting the voting process turn into such a legal mess. This Ohio thing will definitely be the center of controversy this year.


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what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: The Power of Voting [Re: Gijith]
    #3307592 - 11/02/04 02:27 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Too bad the judges who stopped the challengers didn't have a legal leg to walk on.

Their intent was sound, but they went against Ohio law... it was only a matter of time before the ruling was overturned.

Too bad the judgment was overturned before the election... hopefully the late judgment fucks with the Republican's plans to discriminate.


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Fiddlesticks.



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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: The Power of Voting [Re: Gijith]
    #3307599 - 11/02/04 02:30 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

What is a challenger?


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: The Power of Voting [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3307608 - 11/02/04 02:32 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Sorry, that wasn't the best way of saying it.

Ohio has 10,000 republicans who will be at the Polls, challenging ANY voter they wish. This will likely slow things down, and disenfranchise minority voters.

Republicans know, minorities vote Liberal, so if they see a brown or black voter, they may try to impede their vote.

Two judges in Ohio ruled this was illegal yesterday... then tonight, a higher court overruled their decisions.


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Fiddlesticks.



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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: The Power of Voting [Re: Rose]
    #3307620 - 11/02/04 02:38 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I still don't understand. What will these Republican challengers be
doing? Will they be yelling at people they think are going to
vote democratic? Will they cut in line on front of them? Will
they just wave "Bush/Cheney" signs at them? What exactly are they
doing or planning to do?


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: The Power of Voting [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3307634 - 11/02/04 02:46 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

They can contest any votes. They will have lists of THOUSANDS of names to watch out for. If anyone on the list shows up to vote, they will IMMEDIATELY contest their vote. I do not know exactly who is on these lists... but I know these Ohio lists have more than 30,000 names... so they aren't just looking for FRAUD... they are looking for more than that... they want to obstruct the voting process. Unfortunately, Ohio law allows this to happen.

Remember, Republicans think they have a better chance if FEWER people vote. They are doing anything they can to make sure they can limit the vote... especially in battleground states. If history is our guide, they will LIE to voters to keep them from voting. They will primarily pick on the uneducated... ie: the people most likely to believe bullshit. Every little bit helps. This has gone on for Decades... only during the 2000 election fiasco did this issue start gaining media attention.

This is a Partisan issue... I'm sure Democrats would try to do the same thing... if they didn't benefit from LARGE voter turnout. Democrats don't care if DEAD people vote... so it goes both ways.

Unfortunately, the Republican's job in Ohio is to obstruct as many Liberal voters as they can to swing the vote in favor of their guy.

In the past, they have told registered voters that they can't vote with a felony on their record (false). Or picket and obstruct the polls in minority heavy districts. Minorities often stay away from voting, just to avoid the opression they experience. Why vote, if there are a bunch of white assholes making it hard and embarrasing?


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Fiddlesticks.



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Offlinedaimyo
Monticello

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
Re: The Power of Voting [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3307637 - 11/02/04 02:47 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Living in Ohio this is all I have been hearing about. The challenge would be on their eligibility to vote I believe. I've gotten 3 calls today telling me to bring an ID in case of a challenge.

I can't wait to see these cocksuckers tomorrow. I'm certainly gonna let them know what I think about their contribution to this mess. Maybe I can get a few people to stand around the challengers and chant ASSHOLE or something lol.

LONG LIVE ELECTIONS!!!


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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: The Power of Voting [Re: Rose]
    #3307658 - 11/02/04 02:58 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)


They can contest any votes.

You're still not explaining things completely to me. Are these
Republican challengers poll workers or are they private citizens?
Will they be "challenging" people when they try to vote(by lying to
them or trying to dissuade them from voting) or after they
vote(looking into people's records in an attempt to discredit
some voters as ineligible)? What does challenging entail? What
gives these people the right to challenge? If a person is a
registered voter, how in the hell does a "challenge" make their vote
invalid? Be more specific...because I have not heard about this.

They will have lists of THOUSANDS of names to watch out for. If
anyone on the list shows up to vote, they will IMMEDIATELY contest
their vote. I do not know exactly who is on these lists.

And, what happens when a vote is contested? Is it thrown out?
Does it get reviewed by someone? Give me details, as I have no
clue what you are talking about or what the hell a "challenge" is.


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OfflineRoseM
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Registered: 09/24/03
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Re: The Power of Voting [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3307667 - 11/02/04 03:00 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I highly suggest you look for more info, I can't explain it much better than I have, and I am only repeating what I have heard on the Television... so you know how reliable that info can be. On top of all that, I am not from Ohio.

This was big news today. Any news site should have information on it.

Basicly, the challenges can slow the process down, for a challenged voter... and MANY minorities prefer to skip voting... rather than put up with this bullshit. Challenges should not cancel any votes, unless the votes are proven fraudulent. Challengers mostly hang out in MINORITY districts.

That is the main point.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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Offlinedaimyo
Monticello

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
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Re: The Power of Voting [Re: Rose]
    #3307679 - 11/02/04 03:05 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

From Ohio ACLU site...

Voter Challenges in the 2004 Election ? Know Your Rights

Under Ohio law, the ability of prospective voters to cast a ballot may be challenged ?for good cause? at polling places by representatives of political parties, groups of candidates, or issue nominating committees, or by any judge or clerk of elections.

If present, challengers will be stationed behind the tables where poll workers are located. If you are challenged, you must be told why.

Challenges may be based on any of the following criteria:

1) U.S. Citizenship
2) Age
3) Required residency in Ohio for at least 30 days before the election
4) Residency in the county or precinct

If You Are Challenged

You will be asked to take the following oath:

?Do you swear or affirm that you will fully and truly answer all of the following questions put to you, touching your place of residence and your qualifications as an elector at this election??

You will then be asked a series of questions about the criteria for which you are being challenged.

If you answer the questions to the satisfaction of the poll worker, you will be given a ballot and may then vote.

If you refuse to answer, refuse to answer fully, are unable to answer fully, or your answers indicate that you are ineligible to vote you will not be permitted to vote.

If you are disqualified because you do not currently live in the county or precinct, the presiding judge must inform you that you have the right to vote in your proper county or precinct of residence.

THERE IS NO APPEAL PROCESS. The decision of the presiding judge is final.

For more detailed information on this process, please refer to the October 20, 2004 Memorandum from the office of the Ohio Secretary of State and the Ohio Association of Elections Officials titled ?Challenger & Witness Guidelines?


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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: The Power of Voting [Re: daimyo]
    #3307688 - 11/02/04 03:09 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

A great idea on paper, but in actuality... it is mostly Republicans challenging minorities... Legal racism... or if that is too harsh, legal profiling.

Thanks for that link BTW. :smile:


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



Edited by Rose (11/02/04 03:10 AM)


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Offlinedaimyo
Monticello

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
Re: The Power of Voting [Re: Rose]
    #3307704 - 11/02/04 03:18 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I can't for the life of me imagine anybody seeing this as a good idea(not the challenging, but being a challenger). Imagine being a white republican going into the ghetto to cause problems. I forsee more than a couple ass-whoopings happening tomorrow lol.


--------------------
"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: The Power of Voting [Re: Rose]
    #3307711 - 11/02/04 03:21 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Ok, this is what I have been able to gather:

Challengers are private citizens who are members of a party.
Challengers are not poll workers. The Republican party is
coordinating these Ohio "challengers". However, the Democratic
party has a bunch of "challengers" too, which they are coordinating.

Ohio law allows these people to stand in the polling stations and
ask questions of voters in an attempt to ensure there is no fraud.

It sounds entirely possible that this tactic could be used to
"slow things down" at a precinct. And it is plausible that
the Republicans are doing this more at "black" precincts because
black voters usually vote Democratic. But, as long as you bring all
the shit that you need to bring(valid ID, voter registration card,
etc..), I don't see how you would have a problem. From what I
gathered, these challengers have no right to deny your voting as
long as you present all necessary documentation.


Basicly, the challenges can slow the process down, for a challenged
voter... and MANY minorities prefer to skip voting

If they prefer to skip the voting, who's fault is that? If I was
a black person in a black precinct, and a Republican party
challenger EXCESSIVELY held up the process, I would tell him to
go fuck himself. Then I would go vote.


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