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 Worf
Lt. Commander
Registered: 07/04/04
Posts: 15,663
Loc: Final Frontier
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
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 Re: thank god it's almost over  [Re: JesusChrist]
#3305600 - 11/01/04 03:54 PM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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That was your 666th post. And coming from JesusChrist thats saying something.
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Divided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings
Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
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Re: thank god it's almost over [Re: Worf]
#3305674 - 11/01/04 04:14 PM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well, we can only hope it's over. (In step the lawyers)
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1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."
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 afoaf
CEO DBK?
Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
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Re: thank god it's almost over [Re: Vvellum]
#3305763 - 11/01/04 04:45 PM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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I find solace in jesus.
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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 34,212
Loc: High pride!
Last seen: 5 hours, 41 minutes
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Quote:
electioneering said:
yes, but doesn't it make more sense to divide the electoral votes in a state? it makes no sense to practically ignore 48% of the voters of a state just because they didn't have the majority: resulting in millions of people having no bearing on the outcome of the election.
if america is not intended to be a democracy, then why the pretenses? all democracies should work towards a state of proportional representation. and if not allow proportional representation, at least open the stage to a practical and viable third party. at this time it is impossible for a third party to have a chance at winning more than 4% of the popular vote, and no electoral seats.
the fact that the founding fathers devised the electoral college does not mean that it should still apply today. it is just a concept, and concepts can be changed. archaic and outdated ideas just bog down the system (as if the events of last year, as well as what will most likely happen this year are any indication). why continue to use a flawed system when it just leads to trouble?
Fuck man, that's it. 
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Mp3 of the month: Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish
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Vvellum
Stranger
Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
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Re: thank god it's almost over [Re: afoaf]
#3306326 - 11/01/04 07:15 PM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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peace be with you brother.
and, also with you.
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Evolving
Resident Cynic
Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
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Re: thank god it's almost over [Re: afoaf]
#3306423 - 11/01/04 07:40 PM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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It won't be over till Mrs. Edwards (the fat lady pictured below) sings.
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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.' Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence. Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains. Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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Re: thank god it's almost over [Re: Vvellum]
#3306693 - 11/01/04 08:36 PM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
bi0 said:
that's kind of a bogus argument. Why is it better to ignore heavily-populated areas in favor of rural, less-populated areas?
It doesn't ignore them. The current electoral system, like many other aspects of our government, came about as a result of compromise, in this case between the Hamiltonian Federalists, who were more favorable to urban centers, and the Jeffersonian Republicans(not to be confused with the current party of the same name), whose voting base was strongest among rural farmers.
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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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Rose
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,518
Loc: Mod not God 
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: thank god it's almost over [Re: silversoul7]
#3306757 - 11/01/04 08:47 PM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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Their base is still the same, they just no longer seem to believe in smaller govt.
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Fiddlesticks.
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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Quote:
electioneering said:
yes, but doesn't it make more sense to divide the electoral votes in a state? it makes no sense to practically ignore 48% of the voters of a state just because they didn't have the majority: resulting in millions of people having no bearing on the outcome of the election.
I'll grant you that. I think a state's electoral votes should at least somewhat resemble the percentage of people in each state voting for each candidate. That's sort of what I meant when I mentioned proportional representation.
Quote:
if america is not intended to be a democracy, then why the pretenses? all democracies should work towards a state of proportional representation. and if not allow proportional representation, at least open the stage to a practical and viable third party. at this time it is impossible for a third party to have a chance at winning more than 4% of the popular vote, and no electoral seats.
There have been several laws passed by Democrats and Republicans to prevent third parties from gaining power, often under the deceptive guise of "campaign finance reform." The electoral college should be the least of a third party's concerns.
Quote:
the fact that the founding fathers devised the electoral college does not mean that it should still apply today. it is just a concept, and concepts can be changed. archaic and outdated ideas just bog down the system (as if the events of last year, as well as what will most likely happen this year are any indication). why continue to use a flawed system when it just leads to trouble?
The reasons why the founding fathers implemented the electoral college are still applicable today. It may be flawed, as is any system in politics, but I think it still makes sense, given that the U.S. was intended to be a federation of states, with the president being elected by the states to keep peace and order among them. Of course, modern-day presidents have lost sight of the role of their office, but I have hope for the future. I'm confident the system can be improved without having to be thrown out.
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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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Re: thank god it's almost over [Re: Worf]
#3306784 - 11/01/04 08:53 PM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
outputrotation said:
The electoral college is the biggest thing standing between Badnarik and the presidency right now. As it stands he will not get 1 electoral vote
Nor does he stand even the most remote chance of winning the popular vote. Try again.
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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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Re: thank god it's almost over [Re: Rose]
#3306804 - 11/01/04 08:56 PM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said:
Their base is still the same, they just no longer seem to believe in smaller govt.
I wouldn't say their base is still the same. The Federalist party was largely favored by the wealthy industrialists, who are now a major part of the Republican party base. Jefferson's party actually appealed to the poor and downtrodden(despite the fact that it offered no handouts--imagine that).
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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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Rose
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,518
Loc: Mod not God
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: thank god it's almost over [Re: silversoul7]
#3306839 - 11/01/04 09:02 PM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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I just meant they are still rural... not urban... for the most part.
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Fiddlesticks.
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electioneering
vegan
Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 44
Loc: vancouver, bc
Last seen: 19 years, 5 months
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Re: thank god it's almost over [Re: silversoul7]
#3306879 - 11/01/04 09:10 PM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
silversoul7 said:
The reasons why the founding fathers implemented the electoral college are still applicable today. It may be flawed, as is any system in politics, but I think it still makes sense, given that the U.S. was intended to be a federation of states, with the president being elected by the states to keep peace and order among them. Of course, modern-day presidents have lost sight of the role of their office, but I have hope for the future. I'm confident the system can be improved without having to be thrown out.
perhaps the system can be augmented, rather than be disposed of completely. however, never believe that simply because an idea was implimented by some sort of founding body that it is the way, the truth and the light. tradition is often an excuse to do a lot of stupid things. i think that all of the options should be measured. if a revamped version of the electoral college would be the best solution, then it should be used. but it should not be used simply because it has always been used. that is an admission. if something is wrong it should be fixed.
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i am a musician
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afoaf
CEO DBK?
Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
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is there really something wrong with the electoral college though?
some people disagree with it on it's merits, but what are the alternatives?
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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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electioneering
vegan
Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 44
Loc: vancouver, bc
Last seen: 19 years, 5 months
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Re: thank god it's almost over [Re: silversoul7]
#3306912 - 11/01/04 09:19 PM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
silversoul7 said:
There have been several laws passed by Democrats and Republicans to prevent third parties from gaining power, often under the deceptive guise of "campaign finance reform." The electoral college should be the least of a third party's concerns.
at no point did i strive to create some kind of link between the electoral college and any sort of third party. i merely said that the electoral college should be relinquished and a multi-party system should be implemented in its place.
the US should move to a state similar to the ridings system used here in canada. this system eliminates the problems that occur when the amount of seats are handled on a state by state basis. seats in parliament are determined by whoever wins a certain riding. there are many ridings in each province. this allows for provinces to send representatives from many different parties, rather than just one.
but it is still no proportional representation.
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i am a musician
Edited by electioneering (11/01/04 09:33 PM)
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electioneering
vegan
Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 44
Loc: vancouver, bc
Last seen: 19 years, 5 months
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Re: thank god it's almost over [Re: afoaf]
#3306917 - 11/01/04 09:19 PM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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what about the ridings system? please see my above post.
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i am a musician
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