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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
thank god it's almost over
    #3304673 - 11/01/04 02:46 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I don't know about you, but I'm plumb tuckered out.

I've almost reached the point of apathy where the results
of tommorrow's polls will only be an after thought of the
relief of not having to hear all this red, white and blue
b.s. for a few more years.

Good luck to your respective candidates.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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InvisibletrendalM
point of inflection
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,376
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: thank god it's almost over [Re: afoaf]
    #3304680 - 11/01/04 02:51 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Perhaps in a couple more years, you'll look back on this time with longing and wish you were back here, now, when you actually had the time, energy, and freedom to bitch and complain about the situation.

I can see myself doing that.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: thank god it's almost over [Re: trendal]
    #3304685 - 11/01/04 02:52 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

you'll never give it a second thought in the matrix.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: thank god it's almost over [Re: afoaf]
    #3304702 - 11/01/04 02:57 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I know a guy who said he'd probably be able to get some shrooms by today. Assuming he comes through by tomorrow, I think I'll just go to the forest after voting and trip my ass off while everyone else is waiting for the results to come in. Then afterwards I'll log on to the Shroomery to find out who won, and be disappointed by the results either way.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineWorf
Lt. Commander

Registered: 07/04/04
Posts: 15,663
Loc: Final Frontier
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: thank god it's almost over [Re: afoaf]
    #3304711 - 11/01/04 03:00 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

So whats the deal with analysts predicting Kerry will win and Polls showing Bush is 1 point ahead?


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Offlineunbeliever
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Registered: 05/22/04
Posts: 5,158
Loc: Gallifrey
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Re: thank god it's almost over [Re: afoaf]
    #3304713 - 11/01/04 03:00 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

This is an apathy worth fighting against.


--------------------
Happiness is a warm gun...


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: thank god it's almost over [Re: Worf]
    #3304721 - 11/01/04 03:03 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

outputrotation said:
So whats the deal with analysts predicting Kerry will win and Polls showing Bush is 1 point ahead?



I'm not sure if the polls are going by electoral votes, but if they aren't, that's probably why. Or it could be the fact that younger voters prefer Bush, but that age group is least likely to vote.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlineelectioneering
vegan

Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 44
Loc: vancouver, bc
Last seen: 12 years, 30 days
Re: thank god it's almost over [Re: Worf]
    #3304772 - 11/01/04 03:16 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

the reason many analysts are calling the election in kerry's favour despite bush being slightly ahead in the polls is quite simple.
for one, these polls do not reflect actual votes. they are just likely voters. cnn, zogby and others call thousands of houses across the US. of these people called the question remains as to how many of these people will actually vote on election day? if something like 55-65% of the country votes then it is quite possible that a certain portion of the population that didn't vote may have been called to participate in a poll.
also, it is generally and historically noted that if an incumbent does not have more than 50% in the polls going into the election, then the challenger will win. this is because undecided voters tend to favour the challenger.
of course, in a world governed by the electoral college, it doesn't really matter what percentage of the popular vote either candidate wins as the only real measure of note is what states are won. in this system, winning a state 51-49 is the same as winning it 99-1. rather than dividing the seats, the winner takes all.
the states to watch this year are the ones where the candidates are within 5 points of each other. these are deemed "battleground" states. the other states (red or blue) are not really important to the election as they have already been won, and thus will not be subject to contest at the conclusion of the election.

this all having been said, i find it hard to believe that the world's largest single "democracy" could possibly be a bipartisan system ruled by an electoral college. it is absolute insanity.


--------------------
i am a musician


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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: thank god it's almost over [Re: electioneering]
    #3304855 - 11/01/04 03:35 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

yet another reason why these national "polls" are bullshit is the manner of how they are conducted: they are conducted by land-phone. Now, how many of ya'll young people actually have land-phones? A disportionate number of young voters use cell phones instead of traditional land phones. When you're in college or just out of college (or simply just working) and renting your own place, it's far cheaper or preferable to have a cell phone.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/15/polls.cellphones.ap/


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: thank god it's almost over [Re: electioneering]
    #3304936 - 11/01/04 03:53 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

electioneering said:
this all having been said, i find it hard to believe that the world's largest single "democracy" could possibly be a bipartisan system ruled by an electoral college. it is absolute insanity.



The United States was never intended to be a democracy. We are the United States, a bunch of states who came together to form a country, a sort of confederation of sovereign states bound together by the Constitution. Each state elects its own Representatives and Senators to Congress so that their state will be represented in the federal government. The office of president, however, is the one case in which all states must decide together on one person to fulfill the executive duties of government. Since the legislature is set up to represent each state, they needed to have a way of having each state represented for this election, too. So the founding fathers decided to form the electoral college and apportion electors to each state based on its population.

Today, the electoral college prevents politicians from pandering too much to people living in major urban areas. Think about it: If we had a direct vote, presidential candidates wouldn't bother even campaigning in most states, and would instead focus their attention on major population areas like L.A., New York, Chicago, etc. This would most likely be at the expense of people living in rural areas. Now, I agree that we need some sort of electoral reform(like proportional representation, or approval voting), but I think the electoral college, despite its flaws, still serves a valid purpose.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: thank god it's almost over [Re: silversoul7]
    #3305073 - 11/01/04 04:18 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

that's kind of a bogus argument. Why is it better to ignore heavily-populated areas in favor of rural, less-populated areas?


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InvisibletrendalM
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Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,376
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: thank god it's almost over [Re: silversoul7]
    #3305080 - 11/01/04 04:19 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I have a question about the electoral college system:

Have the colleges ever been changed (the area where each college is)? Wouldn't the population density in specific areas have changed in the few hundred years since the electoral college system was created?


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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Offlineelectioneering
vegan

Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 44
Loc: vancouver, bc
Last seen: 12 years, 30 days
Re: thank god it's almost over [Re: silversoul7]
    #3305084 - 11/01/04 04:20 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

yes, but doesn't it make more sense to divide the electoral votes in a state? it makes no sense to practically ignore 48% of the voters of a state just because they didn't have the majority: resulting in millions of people having no bearing on the outcome of the election.

if america is not intended to be a democracy, then why the pretenses? all democracies should work towards a state of proportional representation. and if not allow proportional representation, at least open the stage to a practical and viable third party. at this time it is impossible for a third party to have a chance at winning more than 4% of the popular vote, and no electoral seats.

the fact that the founding fathers devised the electoral college does not mean that it should still apply today. it is just a concept, and concepts can be changed. archaic and outdated ideas just bog down the system (as if the events of last year, as well as what will most likely happen this year are any indication). why continue to use a flawed system when it just leads to trouble?


--------------------
i am a musician


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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: thank god it's almost over [Re: electioneering]
    #3305097 - 11/01/04 04:22 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

:thumbup:


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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: thank god it's almost over [Re: trendal]
    #3305137 - 11/01/04 04:27 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
I have a question about the electoral college system:

Have the colleges ever been changed (the area where each college is)? Wouldn't the population density in specific areas have changed in the few hundred years since the electoral college system was created?



A state has electoral votes equal to its legislative representatives. Each state has at minimum two senators(every state has two senators) and one congressman(congressman per state is based on population). A sparsely populated state like Wyoming has three electoral votes for instance while much larger states such as California have upwards of 50. As the entire purpose of a census is SUPPOSED TO BE to determine things such as representation, the electoral college tends to shift quite often(every new census). My state, New York, lost a few Electoral College votes during the last census while Texas gained a few.


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: thank god it's almost over [Re: Ancalagon]
    #3305165 - 11/01/04 04:32 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

do you support the electoral college as is?


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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: thank god it's almost over [Re: afoaf]
    #3305183 - 11/01/04 04:35 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

yeah, im sick of this shit.


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Offlineelectioneering
vegan

Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 44
Loc: vancouver, bc
Last seen: 12 years, 30 days
Re: thank god it's almost over [Re: Ancalagon]
    #3305184 - 11/01/04 04:35 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Ancalagon said:
My state, New York, lost a few Electoral College votes during the last census while Texas gained a few.



hrmmmm isn't that strange?


--------------------
i am a musician


Edited by electioneering (11/01/04 04:39 PM)


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OfflineWorf
Lt. Commander

Registered: 07/04/04
Posts: 15,663
Loc: Final Frontier
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: thank god it's almost over [Re: silversoul7]
    #3305235 - 11/01/04 04:43 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

The electoral college is the biggest thing standing between Badnarik and the presidency right now. As it stands he will not get 1 electoral vote


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OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: thank god it's almost over [Re: afoaf]
    #3305369 - 11/01/04 05:02 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I am glad this thing is almost over as well. I don't know when the official start of a Presidential race is, but this thing seems to have been going on for years. Enough already.


--------------------
Tastes just like chicken


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