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InvisibleKrishna
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Registered: 05/08/03
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Re: Bush Administration Most Corrupt In US History [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3301254 - 10/31/04 02:25 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

well, in all truth - saddam hussein was not very highly thought of amongst fundamentalist muslims. for all the horrible acts he committed against his own, and the kuwati people (not to mention the poor kurds...) - one area he took a strong stance on was against the uprising of fundamentalist islam. hussein based his rule on very secular issues - to him, groups like Al-Q represented a huge threat...

i think Saddam would have been more than happy to keep doing business with the West as long as they would have allowed it. Unfortunately for him, he pissed off Papa Bush in the early 90s, and fell out of favour with the govts of the west...

but to compare a group like Al-Q and Saddam Hussein is quite a lot like comparing the black panthers and the KKK. sure, both might hate the gov't, but their basic beliefs would stop them from ever working together...


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Bush Administration Most Corrupt In US History [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3301265 - 10/31/04 02:31 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I'm a New Yorker too and I know for goddam sure that I'm glad ALL of Al-Q's attention is focused in Iraq

Horseshit. Just 2% of the fighters picked up in Iraq have been foreign. The vast bulk are ordinary Iraqis who have nothing to do with Al-Q.

I'm also glad that Saddam is no longer available to supply them.

Horseshit. Never happened.

They had their differences but if you don't think they would have eventually found common cause against us you are a fool.

Horseshit. They hadn't found common cause till now. Try and incorporate reality into your opinions.


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OfflineDreamer987
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Re: Bush Administration Most Corrupt In US History [Re: Xlea321]
    #3301291 - 10/31/04 02:41 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Alex123 said:
I'm a New Yorker too and I know for goddam sure that I'm glad ALL of Al-Q's attention is focused in Iraq

Horseshit. Just 2% of the fighters picked up in Iraq have been foreign. The vast bulk are ordinary Iraqis who have nothing to do with Al-Q.

I'm also glad that Saddam is no longer available to supply them.

Horseshit. Never happened.

They had their differences but if you don't think they would have eventually found common cause against us you are a fool.

Horseshit. They hadn't found common cause till now. Try and incorporate reality into your opinions.






Fuckin A! how are people so easily minipulated. zappaisgod stop watching fox news, its making you retarded. Open your eyes, and see whats going on around you. They had a 9-11 commision report, even tho the president was strongly against it, and you know what they found? NO Ties between Al-Q and Saddam.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Bush Administration Most Corrupt In US History [Re: Xlea321]
    #3301315 - 10/31/04 02:49 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Alex123 said:
There is no meaningful line between them. They were both criminals who sought to cause harm to American interests

What "interests" was Saddam seeking to "cause harm to"? Don't you actually need to "cause harm" before you judge someone guilty? Or have you devised a new "thought crime" where if Saddam "thinks a negative thought" about George Bush 100,000 innocent people must be slaughtered in an invasion?
He attempted to assassinate a US president, among other things. It was against our interests for him to invade Kuwait. It was against our interests for him to develop a nuclear program. Lots of things he did were against our interests but Kuwait was enough for us to remove him.I am not the least bit interested in applying the innocent until proven guilty model nor am I interested in waiting until he commits another criminal act. He earned the death penalty long ago. And your 100,000 number is crapulous nonsense. See the thread regarding it. Range of casualties in that "study" was 8,000 to 194,000.

The right time was in 1990

No, the right time was way back in the early 1980's when he would have lost the war with Iran and probably been weakened and overthrown as a result. If only Reagan and Bush hadn't armed him to the teeth.
No, he was a useful tool against a more immediate enemy at the time. Iran remains an enemy and a threat. Can you say next? The enemy of my enemy is a tool. Why shouldn't I use it. Armed him to the teeth? Well, they certainly stood up well.
Sum total of OBL activities in the US for the last 3 years....videos

And before the 2001 attack the sum total of his activities in the US for the previous 8 years was what exactly?
I consider ships at sea to be my territory, as well as embassies
What former allies? Russia? Other side of Cold war. Germany? Definitely our friends in WW2

WW2 was 50 years ago. Get over it.
The point is that these people are NOT our allies. What have these people ever done for us?????"Traditional" allies? Russia and Germany???? What tradition is that? France? Who the fuck are these people and what have they ever done for us? Are they our allies because we have helped them????Get over WW2??? No, I don't think so.
How about your former ally Osama? You were arming him in the 80's remember.
The enemy of my enemy is a tool. Who fucking elected him the spokesman for the Saudi people. Did he ask them if they would rather live under Saddam or under the Saudi "royal" family. Our troops were there at the behest of the ruling Saudi government to fend off the threat of Saddam. This happened to coincide with our interests. OBL does not represent the wishes of the majority os Saudi citizens, and Saudi women
Hey Gerhardt, Any Jews left?
So you're blaming Gerhardt for killing the jews? Then I presume you're happy to blame GW for his grand-daddy doing deals with the Nazi's?
He asked for sound bites, I gave him some. Anti-semitism is ascendant throughout Europe and our "traditional" ally Germany is rather famous for it







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Invisiblegdman
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Re: Bush Administration Most Corrupt In US History [Re: Dreamer987]
    #3301320 - 10/31/04 02:50 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

you would think that al-q would hate saddam... as sadam is secular, his government was secular.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Bush Administration Most Corrupt In US History [Re: Dreamer987]
    #3301360 - 10/31/04 03:03 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Dreamer987 said:

Fuckin A! how are people so easily minipulated. zappaisgod stop watching fox news, its making you retarded. Open your eyes, and see whats going on around you. They had a 9-11 commision report, even tho the president was strongly against it, and you know what they found? NO Ties between Al-Q and Saddam.




I read the NY Times and the NY Post. Every day. I do not get any news from TV. I listen to WABC and Air America. The 9/11 report said that Saddam had offered assistance to OBL. OBL had not accepted it because he didn't need it, yet. The Duelfer report, IF YOU WOULD ACTUALLY READ IT said that Saddam was just waiting for the sanctions to end to restart his programs. Where do you get YOUR brainwashing from? Dan Rather?


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Bush Administration Most Corrupt In US History [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3301376 - 10/31/04 03:07 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

When exactly were these sanctions (Which worked BTW... NO WMD'S! NO FLY ZONE!) scheduled to end?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Bush Administration Most Corrupt In US History [Re: Rose]
    #3301443 - 10/31/04 03:27 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
When exactly were these sanctions (Which worked BTW... NO WMD'S! NO FLY ZONE!) scheduled to end?




Do you mean the no fly zone we were being targeted in everyday? No WMDs? We don't know that. My bet is that they got moved out just in time. The sanctions worked to fill Saddam's, Benon Sevan's, various French and Russian officials' bank accounts. When were they to end? Who knows. It would've happened sooner or later though because wimps like Jimmy Carter would have whined about how much they were hurting the Iraqi babies.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Bush Administration Most Corrupt In US History [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3301454 - 10/31/04 03:31 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah, that's the No Fly Zone I meant.

The one where NO AMERICANS WERE SHOT DOWN... for 10 years... while they enforced it.

That's the one.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Bush Administration Most Corrupt In US History [Re: Rose]
    #3301477 - 10/31/04 03:38 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Damn fine machines, those Russian AA batteries


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Bush Administration Most Corrupt In US History [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3301483 - 10/31/04 03:39 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

:lol:


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InvisibleKrishna
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Re: Bush Administration Most Corrupt In US History [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3301539 - 10/31/04 03:55 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)


Quote:

Cervantes said:
When exactly were these sanctions (Which worked BTW... NO WMD'S! NO FLY ZONE!) scheduled to end?




well, i would disagree that the sanctions were "working" in the most effective manner. yeah, they were stopping Saddam from ammasing more weapons (as Hans Blix pointed out numerous times, though G Dub didn't find it necessary to listen...). But - the sanctions in Iraq also had a horrible toll on the Iraqi people - a people who had already suffered underneath a horrible (and western-supported) dictatorship. and while the sanctions were certainly a better way to disarm iraq and render Saddam impotent than going to war was - i think that the "better of two shitty choices" argument isn't one that the world should be making its decisions by. the problem that we had to face in iraq was, at the heart of it, a problem that the western world created (or at least seriously fostered). and, from my view of it - the current policy of the US is only creating more of these problems, not trying to resolve them before they occur...


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Bush Administration Most Corrupt In US History [Re: Krishna]
    #3301578 - 10/31/04 04:05 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I agree with that assessment of the sanctions. They stopped Sadam's ability to build shitloads of weapons... but the Iraqi citizens suffered greatly for it.


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Bush Administration Most Corrupt In US History [Re: Rose]
    #3303207 - 11/01/04 12:20 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Hah America is making a big mistake occupying a bitterly hostile land with only 137,000 troops and trying to rewire their economy and infrastructure by themselves... Can you say giant waste.

We went into Iraq for the simple reason to have a strong presence in the middle east. You cant push democracy on these people... Change has to come from within.

Like silversoul said History will always prove nation builders wrong.


You will kill 10 of our men, and we will kill 1 of yours, and in the end it will be you who tire of it.
Ho Chi Minh


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Bush Administration Most Corrupt In US History [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #3303244 - 11/01/04 12:46 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Well, not always... but often.


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