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Invisibleusefulidiot
It's notfascist, it's...Neoconservative!

Registered: 11/21/02
Posts: 732
Proof Bush Wants a Draft
    #3298910 - 10/30/04 10:39 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)



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Anonymous

Re: Proof Bush Wants a Draft [Re: usefulidiot]
    #3298966 - 10/30/04 10:53 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

i don't see any proof.


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InvisibleGijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
Re: Proof Bush Wants a Draft [Re: usefulidiot]
    #3298988 - 10/30/04 11:04 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

OMG!!!! SUCH PROOF!

Really, can't we stop with this whole issue?

And the whole Bush Was Wired! thing too.

This tabloid stuff doesn't help anything.
If we want Bush out of office, we should do it honestly.


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what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?


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Offlinerommstein2001
Rise ye Must!
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/10/01
Posts: 3,182
Loc: South GA
Last seen: 8 months, 15 days
Re: Proof Bush Wants a Draft [Re: Gijith]
    #3299711 - 10/31/04 01:39 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I think its a high possibility bush was wired, but even if he wasn't I don't like him one bit. No need to resort to conspiracy theories to make me dislike the man :smile:


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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: Proof Bush Wants a Draft [Re: ]
    #3299751 - 10/31/04 01:55 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

http://www.thememoryhole.org/mil/defendamerica-draftboards.htm

not proof that Bush wants a draft, simply proof that a draft is on the table - ready to go when necessary/desired.


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OfflineWorf
Lt. Commander

Registered: 07/04/04
Posts: 15,663
Loc: Final Frontier
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
Re: Proof Bush Wants a Draft [Re: usefulidiot]
    #3299818 - 10/31/04 02:13 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I wouldn't mind a draft, then all the rich bastards kids could get killed too.


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InvisibleGijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
Re: Proof Bush Wants a Draft [Re: Worf]
    #3300646 - 10/31/04 10:51 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

... or they could join the Air National Guard


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what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?


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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Proof Bush Wants a Draft [Re: Gijith]
    #3300663 - 10/31/04 11:01 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Proof both Bush and Kerry would gladly institute a draft if they determine that it won't cause irreperable harm to their political careers: Neither has said a single word about the abolition of the selective service. If you truly find the notion of a draft, which is by definition slavery, abhorrent, you'll have no problem eliminating the bureaucracy that makes sure a draft can be ready on a moments notice.


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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
Re: Proof Bush Wants a Draft [Re: Ancalagon]
    #3300679 - 10/31/04 11:11 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Ancalagon said:
Proof both Bush and Kerry would gladly institute a draft if they determine that it won't cause irreperable harm to their political careers: Neither has said a single word about the abolition of the selective service. If you truly find the notion of a draft, which is by definition slavery, abhorrent, you'll have no problem eliminating the bureaucracy that makes sure a draft can be ready on a moments notice.




Are there no circumstances under which you would countenance a return of the draft? If yes, there are none, then fine you would get rid of the SS. I think that is a little foolish. I would rather be prepared for an emergency but that's all. It's cheap enough to be prepared. Actually, Qerry has proposed a draft. A national service draft. Not in response to an emergency but for.... something.....That was left unsaid.


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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Proof Bush Wants a Draft [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3300729 - 10/31/04 11:39 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:


Are there no circumstances under which you would countenance a return of the draft?



No. The notion that a draft is in some cases acceptable presupposes that the government has a higher claim upon my person than I do. I find that deplorable.

Quote:

I think that is a little foolish. I would rather be prepared for an emergency but that's all. It's cheap enough to be prepared.



The thirteenth amendment explicitly prohibits slavery and involuntary servitude. If the draft is not slavery/involuntary servitude then I don't know what is. If a foreign and unprovoked power is truly threatening America, I'm confident that the brave will be more than willing to defend Americans(note: not AMERICA, but AMERIC[ANS]). Maybe if we had a sane foreign policy that involved military non-intervention and economic free-trade, we wouldn't need a contingency bureaucracy in the event of a catastrophe. It's truly sad to think that of all the blood that has been spilled for this country since the Revolution, the War of 1812 and MAYBE World War II were the only two just wars. I might be wrong there but off the top of my head, that's about it.

Quote:

Actually, Qerry has proposed a draft. A national service draft. Not in response to an emergency but for.... something.....That was left unsaid.



He rescinded that, can't imagine why. Something to keep in mind if he's up for re-election in 08.


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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Offlinecompman
Stranger
Registered: 07/21/04
Posts: 150
Last seen: 10 years, 25 days
Re: Proof Bush Wants a Draft [Re: Ancalagon]
    #3301047 - 10/31/04 03:12 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

am I the only one that believes this whole election process is an illusion and that americans really dont have a choice?


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InvisibleKrishna
कृष्ण,LOL
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/08/03
Posts: 23,285
Loc: oakland
Re: Proof Bush Wants a Draft [Re: Ancalagon]
    #3301194 - 10/31/04 04:06 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Ancalagon said:
Proof both Bush and Kerry would gladly institute a draft if they determine that it won't cause irreperable harm to their political careers: Neither has said a single word about the abolition of the selective service.




it seems to me like neither of those two douche-bags have really made any statements at all that might risk harm to their political careers (or public poll-driven likeability). actually, now that i think back on the debates, i don't really think either candidate has made much of stance at all on their actual policies.... do these guys even have policies, or do they wait until the men behind the shadows whisper into their ears? ...


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Offlineekomstop
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/31/01
Posts: 1,880
Loc: Canada Flag
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: Proof Bush Wants a Draft [Re: Krishna]
    #3301237 - 10/31/04 04:17 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)



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InvisibleSociety
Pizza Guy

Registered: 07/03/04
Posts: 14,019
Loc: Eating pizza
Re: Proof Bush Wants a Draft [Re: Gijith]
    #3301794 - 10/31/04 07:23 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Gijith said:
If we want Bush out of office, we should do it honestly.




Tell that to the "electoral college".


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Delicious Pizza


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Invisibleusefulidiot
It's notfascist, it's...Neoconservative!

Registered: 11/21/02
Posts: 732
Re: Proof Bush Wants a Draft [Re: compman]
    #3301965 - 10/31/04 07:59 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

compman said:
am I the only one that believes this whole election process is an illusion and that americans really dont have a choice?




Nope. I'm sure deep down alot of people also know something is wrong, however they seem to choose to ignore it, probably because it's just easier that way.


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Offlinephi1618
old hand

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
Re: Proof Bush Wants a Draft [Re: Gijith]
    #3301967 - 10/31/04 07:59 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Gijith said:
OMG!!!! SUCH PROOF!

Really, can't we stop with this whole issue?

And the whole Bush Was Wired! thing too.

This tabloid stuff doesn't help anything.
If we want Bush out of office, we should do it honestly.



:thumbup:


Quote:


http://www.thememoryhole.org/mil/defendamerica-draftboards.htm

not proof that Bush wants a draft, simply proof that a draft is on the table - ready to go when necessary/desired.




Over a year old, and missing from the page on which it was originally posted.


Quote:

am I the only one that believes this whole election process is an illusion and that americans really dont have a choice?




Unfortunately, no.


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Proof Bush Wants a Draft [Re: compman]
    #3302103 - 10/31/04 08:33 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

compman said:
am I the only one that believes this whole election process is an illusion and that americans really dont have a choice?



We have a choice, but not a good one. This sums it up nicely.
EDIT: damn link is dead. It was a clip of a southpark episode where they had a choice between a giant douche and a turd sandwich.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


Edited by z@z.com (10/31/04 08:35 PM)


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Invisibleusefulidiot
It's notfascist, it's...Neoconservative!

Registered: 11/21/02
Posts: 732
Re: Proof Bush Wants a Draft [Re: z@z.com]
    #3302123 - 10/31/04 08:43 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I thought this long ass article summed it up nicely: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3299732/an/0/page/1


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Offlinephi1618
old hand

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
Re: Proof Bush Wants a Draft [Re: usefulidiot]
    #3302140 - 10/31/04 08:51 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

That article's about Diebold's electronic voting machines.

Diebold makes voting machines with no audit trail, and its corporate officers are strong Republican supporters.
This is bad for the legitimacy of the American vote - our machines must produce an audit trail, or they are vulnerable to being subverted.


However, saying that Diebold's electronic voting machines are pieces of shit is a long way from demonstrating that the American system is illegitimate as it is today.


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OfflineAaronEvil
The GuitarVillain
Male

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 1,706
Loc: California
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
Re: Proof Bush Wants a Draft [Re: usefulidiot]
    #3303407 - 11/01/04 04:09 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

If you do your homework you will find that there was a draft bill proposed by a few Democrats but it was shut down by almost every member in congress both Democrat and Republican. The reason it was shut down could be anything, but the bill was never changed or looked at in anymore depth so my assumption is that they all thought it was a ridiculous idea. If you want a source you should check out government websites... unless you think the government would lie about proposed bills also.


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There is not a lot of difference between a fox hole and a grave; but knowing that you dug your ditch and climbed in anyway.


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