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Offlinecall_me_kido
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Air Exchange using Tyvek
    #3296634 - 10/30/04 09:51 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Hey guys,

I was reading some info on the importance of air exchange in your fruiting chamber and was wondering if the following makes any sense.

If I took my chamber thats filled with perlite, and elevated the casings say about six inches off the perlite using a grate or screen, Could I utilize the area between the perilite and the casings, to cut four lid sized holes in the chamber, cover with tyvek so the heavier CO2 could sink to the bottom and leave through the covered openings. Maybe put four on the lid also to allow oxygen in.

I was thinking this wouldnt effect the humidity because the tyvek wouldnt allow moisture to escape but may help with the air exchange. This would be in addition to fanning and whatever else.

You guys think theres any merit to this?


Kido


--------------------
"If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?"
- Albert Einstein (1875-1955)

"A is A" -Aristotle


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Invisiblederx
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Re: Air Exchange using Tyvek [Re: call_me_kido]
    #3296639 - 10/30/04 09:58 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

thats the principle behind the double tub method that has been floating around recently. They use polyfill in the holes though instead of tvyek. you wouldnt need to elevate the casings any. Holes in the lid and right above the perlite layer would work.


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Air Exchange using Tyvek [Re: derx]
    #3298402 - 10/30/04 08:09 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Tyvek doesn't allow for air exchange, only gas exchange. It only lets co2 excess out of jars as it builds up..it keeps the co2 in there though since you actually want the co2 in ther during colonization.

Use polyfil..it won't allow water vapor to escape.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Air Exchange using Tyvek [Re: call_me_kido]
    #3298608 - 10/30/04 09:17 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Polyfil or Tyvek doesn't matter unless your pumping "clean" fresh air in the chamber you will still need to fan for fresh air exchange period. In otherwords redundancy at it's best :wink:


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"


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OfflineBioSore
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Re: Air Exchange using Tyvek [Re: hyphae]
    #3298702 - 10/30/04 09:47 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

scatmanrav, you do realize that air IS gas, right?  I'm also sure there's something that you could do to get O2 in there without having a pump or fan.  There just has to.  :smile:


--------------------
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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Air Exchange using Tyvek [Re: BioSore]
    #3298862 - 10/30/04 10:29 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Air exchange and gas exchange are two separate things to a mycologist:

Gas exchange: The ability to release builtup gases resulting from the myc's metabolic activity (consuming substrate). A result of this inability to release these gas creates EXCESS myc piss which BTW is a normal process (myc piss) but an excess is not, it can easily stall a cake. Gas exchange is simply an exchange in values nothing more. (do not lick your cakes or leave your holes taped) :wink:

FAE (fresh air exchange): is the lowering of the co2 concentration through the introduction of fresh air plain and simple. A good fresh air exchange includes the stagnated moisture pockets of the casing surface (microclimate).


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Air Exchange using Tyvek [Re: hyphae]
    #3299782 - 10/31/04 02:04 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Try this...stuff the hole with polyfil and blow through it and then just put a peice of tyvek on there and try and blow through it and see which you get better air exchange to. Tyvek IMO is best use for the release of gases and not for covering holes to let fresh air in. Just put a peice of tyvek up to your face and try and suck through it and see how much air you can pull through it and you figure out if thats enough for your mushrooms or not.

Hyphae explained it well enough biosore..yes air is a gas but fresh air exchange is different from gas exchange. I guess if hyphae says tyvek will work it will..I've tried sucking through it though and wouldnt use anything but polyfil.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinehyphae
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Re: Air Exchange using Tyvek [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3299819 - 10/31/04 02:13 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Tyvek or polyfil both allow gas exchange (fact). As far as a chamber I'd always use polyfil because of the fact of much less resistance BECAUSE in a fruiting chamber we're not talking gas exchange anymore we're talking fresh air exchanges WITH the use of a pump otherwise there will be not be enough passive air exchange to be of any real use.


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Air Exchange using Tyvek [Re: hyphae]
    #3299893 - 10/31/04 02:34 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Right this person was asking about the fruiting chamber specifically. Certainly both work for gas exchange..it was a question of will tyvek work for fresh air exchange on holes in a fruiting chamber. I still say nah-uh :smile:


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinecall_me_kido
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Re: Air Exchange using Tyvek [Re: hyphae]
    #3300367 - 10/31/04 07:34 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

hyphae said:
Polyfil or Tyvek doesn't matter unless your pumping "clean" fresh air in the chamber you will still need to fan for fresh air exchange period. In otherwords redundancy at it's best :wink:




First off Im glad to see you guys reply so quickly to our inquiries, its much appreciated.

Let me itterate a little bit here, using the quote above.

I headed down to Pet Co and bought an air pump, with dual hose out lets that lead to two 14inch air stones, or whatever those styrofome stick things that you poke holes in are. My plan for the fruiting chamber is to layer the bottom with perlite and water and have the air stones underneath blowing air in, fresh filtered O2. Its a 55 Gallon non-transparent rubbermaid container, so my hopes are to place mason-lid sized holes, about four of them in the bottom of the chamber, covered with tyvek or polyfill whichever you guys feel are better.

There will be 4 large casings in the chamber, the air will be pumped through a thin layer of water and perlite to keep 02 levels high and to help keep humidity up. I am just wondering the best way to keep the c02 out of the chamber.

Thanks again,

Kido

Also, since ill be using verm/coir casings, I think the air pumps should keep the humidity well enough maybe with occasional misting, any thoughts?


--------------------
"If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?"
- Albert Einstein (1875-1955)

"A is A" -Aristotle


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Air Exchange using Tyvek [Re: call_me_kido]
    #3301314 - 10/31/04 04:49 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Well I'm sure you can get by without any holes but if you want I'd suggest 3/4"-1" polyfil stuffed holes you won't need too many say 4-6. This is about a hundred times more efficient than mason jar lid sized holes FYI. GL
BTW shroomies grow relatively fine in slightly higher than ambient co2 levels so don't sweat it to much if using an air pump.


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"


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OfflineRubbermaid
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Re: Air Exchange using Tyvek [Re: hyphae]
    #3301603 - 10/31/04 06:15 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Im skeptical tyvek could allow much volume of gas to diffuse through it, but polyfill dosent seem as sterile as a a HEPA filter. I just started using a fish pump enclosed in a bottle with a HEPA filter on the side to filter all air. I sprayed a bit of lysol in the bottle and ran the pump for a while to hopefully clean the pump. I then placed the tubing outlet on the top of the terranium to clean it out first. I wanted to find a one-way valve I could put in the terranium right above my perlite layer to force out CO2, but I have not found one. Instead I loosened the lid a very slight bit. I do not spray the casings either, because humidity is extremely high. I have both my terraniums in a double rubbermaid setup with fish tank heaters in the bottom at 75F. I had a few cakes contaminated weeks later, but I think this is not from the pump, but my frequent unsterile picking of shrooms. oops... well


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Air Exchange using Tyvek [Re: Rubbermaid]
    #3302756 - 10/31/04 11:36 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Polyfl is quite sterile. It might seem like its not because its cotton like but unlike cotton, this is manmade. Contams dont like it and wont grow on it and it wont wick water.

I pick all my shrooms in a "unsterile" environment. Just in my living room. Its clean but I don't spray lysol or anything before. I dont know if that was the cause of your contams.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
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