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OfflineViaggio
ChemicalConsumer

Registered: 07/05/03
Posts: 1,296
Last seen: 18 years, 2 months
God's ego...
    #3291267 - 10/28/04 08:26 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

I was considering an idea last night with a friend and some really great herb.

Perhaps "in the beginning," God did not exactly create existence. Instead of allowing for something outside of himself to acknowledge his existence (a request from the ego), maybe this one and all being divided from inside itself and formed numerous forms of existence (such as planets, trees, and people), thus numerous egos. It's as if God sacrificed a sole ego for numerous smaller ones to satisfy his desire for acknowledgement. This idea seems to incorporate another idea in which we are all apart of God, one whole being.

It might seem far fetched, but it makes sense to me. Comments?


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."

Edited by viaggio (10/28/04 08:32 PM)

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OfflineGomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
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Re: God's ego... [Re: Viaggio]
    #3291276 - 10/28/04 08:29 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

yepp, beein thinking so myself and hers another as i see it :P


Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:


Is it not plausible, considering we are eternal beings, that somewhere along the way, in the journey of self discovery and self realisation and creative potential, that some one got the brilliant idea to have us become independent thinkers through separation forgetfullness programming of consciousness in a physical vehicle, so we could become more efficient and productive with the group goal?




sub note: i suddenly remeberd when i was thinking this :P actually it was in my early early days :P and i was really really loosing it.. depressions and all that (really LOL thinking of back then when i changed so much now)
i was in my mind going, "what if i create more personality es bla bla, then i though, but my god! that is maybe what has happened", inf act it was one of those triggers that got me thinking instead of analyzing :P i guess


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Disclaimer!?

Edited by Gomp (10/28/04 08:36 PM)

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OfflineCER
?
Registered: 10/26/04
Posts: 45
Loc: midwest
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
Re: God's ego... [Re: Gomp]
    #3291308 - 10/28/04 08:42 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth;
Gen 1:2 and the earth being without form and empty, and darkness on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God moving gently on the face of the waters,
Gen 1:3 then God said, Let light be! And there was light.
Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good, and God separated between the light and darkness.
Gen 1:5 And God called the light, Day. And He called the darkness, Night. And there was evening, and there was morning the first day.
Gen 1:6 And God said, Let an expanse be in the midst of the waters, and let it be dividing between the waters and the waters.
Gen 1:7 And God made the expanse, and He separated between the waters which were under the expanse and the waters which were above the expanse. And it was so.
Gen 1:8 And God called the expanse, Heavens. And there was evening, and there was morning the second day.
Gen 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heavens be collected to one place, and let the dry land appear. And it was so.
Gen 1:10 And God called the dry land, Earth. And He called the collection of the waters, Seas. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:11 And God said, Let the earth sprout tender sprouts, the plant seeding seed, the fruit tree producing fruit according to its kind, whichever seed is in it on the earth. And it was so.
Gen 1:12 And the earth bore tender sprouts, the plant seeding seed according to its kind, and the fruit tree producing fruit according to its kind, whichever seed is in it. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:13 And there was evening, and there was morning the third day.
Gen 1:14 And God said, Let luminaries be in the expanse of the heavens, to divide between the day and the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years.
Gen 1:15 And let them be for luminaries in the expanse of the heavens, to give light on the earth. And it was so.
Gen 1:16 And God made the two great luminaries: the great luminary to rule the day, and the small luminary and the stars to rule the night.
Gen 1:17 And God set them in the expanse of the heavens, to give light on the earth,
Gen 1:18 and to rule over the day and over the night; and to divide between the light and the darkness. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:19 And there was evening, and there was morning the fourth day.
Gen 1:20 And God said, Let the waters swarm with swarmers having a soul of life; and let the birds fly over the earth, on the face of the expanse of the heavens.
Gen 1:21 And God created the great sea animals, and all that creeps, having a living soul, which swarmed the waters, according to its kind; and every bird with wing according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas; and let the birds multiply in the earth.
Gen 1:23 And there was evening, and there was morning the fifth day.
Gen 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the soul of life according to its kind: cattle, and creepers, and its beasts of the earth, according to its kind. And it was so.
Gen 1:25 And God made the beasts of the earth according to its kind, and cattle according to its kind, and all creepers of the ground according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:26 And God said, let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over all the creepers creeping on the earth.
[Gen 1:26 And God said, let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over all the creepers creeping on the earth/color]


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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

Edited by CER (10/28/04 08:43 PM)

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OfflineGomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
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Re: God's ego... [Re: CER]
    #3291329 - 10/28/04 08:49 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

is that a trip report? :P j\k h?h?


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OfflineTripster
200+ trips wise

Registered: 10/10/04
Posts: 275
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
Re: God's ego... [Re: Gomp]
    #3291345 - 10/28/04 08:52 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Gomp said:
is that a trip report? :P j\k h?h?


LOL that's good.


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You've raped! I feel dirty
It hurt! As a child
Tied down! That's a good boy
And fucked! Your own child
I scream! No one hears me
It hurt! I'm not a liar
My God! Saw you watching
Mommy why?! Your own child -Korn

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OfflineCER
?
Registered: 10/26/04
Posts: 45
Loc: midwest
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
Re: God's ego... [Re: Tripster]
    #3291357 - 10/28/04 08:55 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Whom are you asking, me?


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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

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OfflineViaggio
ChemicalConsumer

Registered: 07/05/03
Posts: 1,296
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Re: God's ego... [Re: CER]
    #3291358 - 10/28/04 08:55 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Despite my usual dislike of most of Christianity's Bible teachings, I can find sense in these Genesis descriptions as long as I loosen my interpretation. Perhaps the idea of a sole ego "dividing" can then include the "multiplication" of the numerous existence which resulted. I don't know...I think I'm starting to reach, but thanks for new element.


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."

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OfflineCER
?
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Re: God's ego... [Re: Viaggio]
    #3291361 - 10/28/04 08:56 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

ANY time.


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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

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Offlinezahudulallah
Sexual Heretic

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 10,579
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Re: God's ego... [Re: Viaggio]
    #3291380 - 10/28/04 09:00 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

There is a much deeper mystery involved with the creation of the space & time infinitude that we exist in today. The Kabbalist take on Genesis is described a "breaking point".. thus one comes to understand existence/creation as a necessity. The breaking point was essentially the end of all metaphysical solitude, where GOD - En Sof (meaning the Limitless, or Unlimited) "collapsed" on its own unfathomable being resulting in the explosion of space-time - which eventually evolved to the point we are now with all points of being having leaked from its divine source. The universe is like a row boat in the ocean that has a hole in it, filling up with water. Returning the water that leaked into the boat into the ocean again is our necessity.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: God's ego... [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3291387 - 10/28/04 09:00 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

"On the other hand, you have different fingers. "
-unknown


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OfflineTripster
200+ trips wise

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Re: God's ego... [Re: Tripster]
    #3291389 - 10/28/04 09:01 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Has anyone here read the comic book series titled "Preacher"? It has a great ending in which we find god to be a lonely individual who created life to have people that would love him. When you think about it it is a very egomaniacal concept to create a race of people and to demand they love you and worship you and none other than you. And then when things got a little out of hand god abandoned the world to itself and stopped intervening. Atleast that's the reasoning in the comic behind why god's all over the place in the bible and then seemingly disappears conveniently around when the bible time period ends. Like he's W. Bush and he's in office. Anyways, it's very interesting and a good comic to boot.


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You've raped! I feel dirty
It hurt! As a child
Tied down! That's a good boy
And fucked! Your own child
I scream! No one hears me
It hurt! I'm not a liar
My God! Saw you watching
Mommy why?! Your own child -Korn

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OfflineWhiteRussian
The Silence islouder then youthink
Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 441
Loc: In your head :P
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Re: God's ego... [Re: Gomp]
    #3291390 - 10/28/04 09:01 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

lol


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aaaaaahhhhh

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OfflineViaggio
ChemicalConsumer

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Posts: 1,296
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Re: God's ego... [Re: CER]
    #3291407 - 10/28/04 09:06 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Who does God mean with the plural terms of lets, we, and our? Does it mean "we, the things that now exist" will materialise man? Could it indicate that humans might be peripheral parts of God that always existed but hadn't materialised from God yet?


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."

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OfflineCER
?
Registered: 10/26/04
Posts: 45
Loc: midwest
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
Re: God's ego... [Re: WhiteRussian]
    #3291424 - 10/28/04 09:09 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Tripster
God abandoned the world and stopped intervening????
People probably find it easier to accept a comic books take on our creator. I'm sure anyone who has not studied the bible would question God when he says..."I will never leave you, nor forsake you."
And that would probably be a comic book wright er.
And people who want to bring God down to their level, rather than meet him on his would accept a comic book theory.


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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

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OfflineCER
?
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Loc: midwest
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Re: God's ego... [Re: CER]
    #3291428 - 10/28/04 09:10 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

viaggo...very good question.
The answer is in 1John that says Jesus was with God when he created the world.


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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

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OfflineTripster
200+ trips wise

Registered: 10/10/04
Posts: 275
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Re: God's ego... [Re: Viaggio]
    #3291435 - 10/28/04 09:12 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

viaggio said:
Who does God mean with the plural terms of lets, we, and our? Does it mean "we, the things that now exist" will materialise man? Could it indicate that humans might be peripheral parts of God that always existed but hadn't materialised from God yet?


The theory of god and such has always been in a we format. That means no more than when Koresh said to some Wacoians that "we" should stay our ground in our compound.


--------------------
You've raped! I feel dirty
It hurt! As a child
Tied down! That's a good boy
And fucked! Your own child
I scream! No one hears me
It hurt! I'm not a liar
My God! Saw you watching
Mommy why?! Your own child -Korn

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OfflineCER
?
Registered: 10/26/04
Posts: 45
Loc: midwest
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
Re: God's ego... [Re: CER]
    #3291444 - 10/28/04 09:13 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.

Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us. And we beheld His glory, glory as of an only begotten from the Father, full of grace and of truth.


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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

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OfflineCER
?
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Posts: 45
Loc: midwest
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
Re: God's ego... [Re: CER]
    #3291449 - 10/28/04 09:14 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

WE means the Father, the Son, and The Holy Spirit.
Like an egg. A shell, a white and a yolk.


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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

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OfflineTripster
200+ trips wise

Registered: 10/10/04
Posts: 275
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
Re: God's ego... [Re: CER]
    #3291457 - 10/28/04 09:16 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

CER said:
Tripster
God abandoned the world and stopped intervening????
People probably find it easier to accept a comic books take on our creator. I'm sure anyone who has not studied the bible would question God when he says..."I will never leave you, nor forsake you."
And that would probably be a comic book wright er.
And people who want to bring God down to their level, rather than meet him on his would accept a comic book theory.


Sorry the median does not meet your standards but it's just that, a median with which to convey a story. Like the bible but with pictures. Although I guess they make those bibles too, essentially the bible in comic form. But never in my post did I say this comic book was my bible. It's an interesting view on things that makes one think, and that my friend is a valueable thing. Sorry thinking these thoughts made you angry because they went against your thoughts that you've been thinking for so long. But really, that's probably a good thing wether you like it or not. Throwing petty insults as your first retort doesn't do much for painting your side as an intelligent one. Do try to realize that people can think a thought without worshipping it and attacking others that don't. That's all I was doing.


--------------------
You've raped! I feel dirty
It hurt! As a child
Tied down! That's a good boy
And fucked! Your own child
I scream! No one hears me
It hurt! I'm not a liar
My God! Saw you watching
Mommy why?! Your own child -Korn

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OfflineViaggio
ChemicalConsumer

Registered: 07/05/03
Posts: 1,296
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Re: God's ego... [Re: CER]
    #3291463 - 10/28/04 09:17 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Interesting...now these ideas seem to connect like legos.


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."

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OfflineJCoke
dream observer
Male

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Re: God's ego... *DELETED* [Re: CER]
    #3291468 - 10/28/04 09:18 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Post deleted by JCoke

Reason for deletion: lies



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hello, your name is life on earth
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"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.

Edited by JCoke (10/28/04 11:35 PM)

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OfflineCER
?
Registered: 10/26/04
Posts: 45
Loc: midwest
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
Re: God's ego... [Re: Tripster]
    #3291477 - 10/28/04 09:20 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Tripster
That would be if you believed the Bible was a story.
In which case I obviously don't.
I also, don't consider myself "intelligent". Do you?
I consider myself informed and well read on biblical matter.
I'm sorry my "retort" got under your skin.


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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

Edited by CER (10/28/04 09:22 PM)

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OfflineViaggio
ChemicalConsumer

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Re: God's ego... [Re: JCoke]
    #3291508 - 10/28/04 09:29 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

JCoke, that is a very well put interpretation. Thanks a lot.


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."

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OfflineTripster
200+ trips wise

Registered: 10/10/04
Posts: 275
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
Re: God's ego... [Re: CER]
    #3291514 - 10/28/04 09:30 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

CER said:

I'm sorry my "retort" got under your skin.


That's what I was thinking. You are under none of my skin. I'm thinking you need to accept that others think thoughts different than yours and they are still people too. Maybe I'm wrong.


--------------------
You've raped! I feel dirty
It hurt! As a child
Tied down! That's a good boy
And fucked! Your own child
I scream! No one hears me
It hurt! I'm not a liar
My God! Saw you watching
Mommy why?! Your own child -Korn

Edited by Tripster (10/28/04 09:31 PM)

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OfflineJCoke
dream observer
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Registered: 02/17/04
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Re: God's ego... [Re: CER]
    #3291516 - 10/28/04 09:30 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

yea well, i just so happend to have my brothers "study Bible" right next to me, I basicly stole everything i said from it.  :grin:


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hello, your name is life on earth
------------------------------------

"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.

Edited by JCoke (10/28/04 11:37 PM)

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OfflineTripster
200+ trips wise

Registered: 10/10/04
Posts: 275
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
Re: God's ego... [Re: CER]
    #3291531 - 10/28/04 09:34 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

CER said:
I also, don't consider myself "intelligent". Do you?
I consider myself informed and well read on biblical matter.



By your quotes I think you mean more than the dictionary definition by intelligent. Until I know your full meaning I can't really answer. If you mean intelligent as defined by Webster than yes, we are intelligent. If you mean something more metaphysical than I'd need you to let me in on what you're thinking.


--------------------
You've raped! I feel dirty
It hurt! As a child
Tied down! That's a good boy
And fucked! Your own child
I scream! No one hears me
It hurt! I'm not a liar
My God! Saw you watching
Mommy why?! Your own child -Korn

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OfflineCER
?
Registered: 10/26/04
Posts: 45
Loc: midwest
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
Re: God's ego... [Re: Tripster]
    #3291575 - 10/28/04 09:41 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

I'm thinking you need to accept that others think thoughts different than yours and they are still people too.

From a biblical standpoint, no I don't need to accept your thoughts (I'm not saying this in a mean voice). "My" faith teaches me to "go ye into all the world and preach the GOSPEL of Jesus Christ."
I didn't think I was pushing my opinion on the original poster because...she/he asked. And with you, I was just defending my position..."defend the faith."
I will respect it if someone asks me to not speak to them on the subject. Otherwise I'm inclined to answer.


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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

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OfflineCER
?
Registered: 10/26/04
Posts: 45
Loc: midwest
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
Re: God's ego... [Re: CER]
    #3291577 - 10/28/04 09:42 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

I'm going to bed now.


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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

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OfflineTripster
200+ trips wise

Registered: 10/10/04
Posts: 275
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Re: God's ego... [Re: CER]
    #3291612 - 10/28/04 09:51 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

CER said:
I'm thinking you need to accept that others think thoughts different than yours and they are still people too.

From a biblical standpoint, no I don't need to accept your thoughts (I'm not saying this in a mean voice). "My" faith teaches me to "go ye into all the world and preach the GOSPEL of Jesus Christ."
I didn't think I was pushing my opinion on the original poster because...she/he asked. And with you, I was just defending my position..."defend the faith."
I will respect it if someone asks me to not speak to them on the subject. Otherwise I'm inclined to answer.


Maybe it's the wonderful internet not conveying our emotions well but I'm trying to stress that we can talk about our views without having to tell the other person they're wrong, and I never told you to accept my thoughts. Merely to allow my to think them without talking down towards me like I'm a lesser person. Your first retort sounded angry that I would bring up such an idea and you talked down towards me because I entertained the thought. You can't deny that with your "a person that reads comic books would think so" like remarks. Don't try to spin this around and tell me what I just told you. Don't be so quick to hate another for having a thought that's not what you think.


--------------------
You've raped! I feel dirty
It hurt! As a child
Tied down! That's a good boy
And fucked! Your own child
I scream! No one hears me
It hurt! I'm not a liar
My God! Saw you watching
Mommy why?! Your own child -Korn

Edited by Tripster (10/28/04 09:54 PM)

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OfflineGomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
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Re: God's ego... [Re: Tripster]
    #3291622 - 10/28/04 09:53 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

""we can talk about our views without having to tell the other person they're wrong""

why not?


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OfflineTripster
200+ trips wise

Registered: 10/10/04
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Re: God's ego... [Re: Gomp]
    #3291637 - 10/28/04 09:56 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Gomp said:
""we can talk about our views without having to tell the other person they're wrong""

why not?


Because in the end, on this subject, there is no right or wrong that can be undeniably proven. Therefore for the sake of discussing things civil like we must accept that we can think seperate thoughts and share them with each other. We will all always think we are correct but we will never learn from each other when we are close minded. You are right though, on some issues there is definitely a right and wrong thought and justifiably a reason to tell someone they're wrong. Just not this issue.


--------------------
You've raped! I feel dirty
It hurt! As a child
Tied down! That's a good boy
And fucked! Your own child
I scream! No one hears me
It hurt! I'm not a liar
My God! Saw you watching
Mommy why?! Your own child -Korn

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OfflineGomp
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Re: God's ego... [Re: Tripster]
    #3291654 - 10/28/04 10:00 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

did we just now talk about our views without having to tell the other person they're wrong?


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OfflineTripster
200+ trips wise

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Re: God's ego... [Re: Gomp]
    #3291669 - 10/28/04 10:03 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Gomp said:
did we just now talk about our views without having to tell the other person they're wrong?


You understand my point and are only getting anywhere in your arguement you're holding for the sake of argueing because my quote was out of context. I was refering to the initial reaction of lashing out at someone and demeaning them because you don't agree with the thought introduced. Take that quote and put it back in to that context and then decide if you still think it's that incorrect.


--------------------
You've raped! I feel dirty
It hurt! As a child
Tied down! That's a good boy
And fucked! Your own child
I scream! No one hears me
It hurt! I'm not a liar
My God! Saw you watching
Mommy why?! Your own child -Korn

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: God's ego... [Re: CER]
    #3292627 - 10/29/04 03:17 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

CER said:
I'm thinking you need to accept that others think thoughts different than yours and they are still people too.




Even though said people could be a little ignorant and misinformed. :lol:

Quote:


From a biblical standpoint, no I don't need to accept your thoughts (I'm not saying this in a mean voice).  "My" faith teaches me to "go ye into all the world and preach the GOSPEL of Jesus Christ."




Which is responsible for quite a lot of hardship and suffering in the past two thousand years... it truly is wonderful that we must accept your thoughts and acknowledge them but that you do not need to accept ours.  :rolleyes:

Quote:


I didn't think I was pushing my opinion on the original poster because...she/he asked.  And  with you, I was just defending my position..."defend the faith."




It must suck to be so insecure in one's faith that one must defend it.

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineDarcho
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Re: God's ego... [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3292872 - 10/29/04 07:11 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Three words: Pantheism, OM, Spinoza.

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OfflineCER
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Re: God's ego... [Re: Tripster]
    #3293081 - 10/29/04 08:52 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Tripster said:
"I was refering to the initial reaction of lashing out at someone and demeaning them because you don't agree with the thought introduced."

Gomp said:
is that a trip report? :P j\k h?h?

Tripster said:
LOL that's good.

So is this what you mean by not talking down to someone about their beliefs?

I?m not even sure what a trip report is, but I am assuming you mean ?tripping??

Tripster said:
we will never learn from each other when we are close minded

2Ti 4:2 preach the Word, be urgent in season, out of season, convict, warn, encourage with all long-suffering and teaching.
2Ti 4:3 For a time will be when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own lusts, they will heap up to themselves teachers tickling the ear;
2Ti 4:4 and they will turn away the ear from the truth and will be turned aside to myths.
2Ti 4:5 But you be clear-minded in all, suffer hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fully carry out your ministry.

1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 1Co 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
1Co 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

Tripster?You see the Bible teaches not to accept humanistic philosophy?I think, I wonder, the comic says, etc?
I am required by my beliefes to be able to defend my position. I?m not arguing with you, I?m trying to get you to see that I am right.

Sorry I don?t know how to use the quote feature on this forum yet.


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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: God's ego... [Re: CER]
    #3293089 - 10/29/04 08:57 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

CER said:
Tripster?You see the Bible teaches not to accept humanistic philosophy?I think, I wonder, the comic says, etc?
I am required by my beliefes to be able to defend my position.




Tell me, what position are you defending here?

Quote:


I?m not arguing with you, I?m trying to get you to see that I am right.





:rolleyes:

How can you know Truth if your eyes are already closed? Such a thing to say, "I am right". :lol:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineCER
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Re: God's ego... [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3293097 - 10/29/04 09:02 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

The first quote there you have was me quoting tripster in one of my posts and then responding to him...so I did not say...I'm thinking you need to accept that others think thoughts different than yours and they are still people too. Those were Tripsters words.

I do accept that others think different thoughts, but if they want to continue a conversation on the subject why is it "my" thougts are the unacceptable ones.

You said: It must suck to be so insecure in ones faith that one must defend it...is this your acceptable form of tolerance of other peoples faith.
Defending the faith is a biblical term. And I don't think it is possible to defend something that one is insecure about. I mean think about that statement???????

2Ti 1:8 Then do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me, His prisoner. But suffer hardship with the gospel, according to the power of God,

So yes it does suck at times, the Bible warns that we will suffer hardships such as "this conversation". But that we are to do it anyway. For YOUR sake.


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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

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OfflineCER
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Re: God's ego... [Re: Viaggio]
    #3293102 - 10/29/04 09:06 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Viaggio-sorry for hijacking your subject.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: God's ego... [Re: Tripster]
    #3293117 - 10/29/04 09:14 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Tripster said:
Quote:

Gomp said:
did we just now talk about our views without having to tell the other person they're wrong?


You understand my point and are only getting anywhere in your arguement you're holding for the sake of argueing because my quote was out of context. I was refering to the initial reaction of lashing out at someone and demeaning them because you don't agree with the thought introduced. Take that quote and put it back in to that context and then decide if you still think it's that incorrect.




arguement??

and why do you assume I think it's incorrect?? if you assume so.. (?)

did we just again talk about our views without having to tell the other person they're wrong?


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: God's ego... [Re: CER]
    #3293135 - 10/29/04 09:22 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

CER said:
Defending the faith is a biblical term.  And I don't think it is possible to defend something that one is insecure about. I mean think about that statement???????




If one was secure in their faith, they wouldn't constantly perceive threats to it, and wouldn't feel the need to crusade agansit others in some attempt to try to prove justification of their faith.

Quote:


So yes it does suck at times, the Bible warns that we will suffer hardships such as "this conversation".  But that we are to do it anyway.  For YOUR sake.




If a fairly neutral, indirect conversation such as this one is perceived as a "hardship", then you must suffer needlessly far too often, as this conversation just isn't that big of a deal. There are plenty of realistic hardships out there in this world right now, like war, poverty, famine, disease....

I feel honored that you put up with this mentally straining hardship all for me, but really, it is quite unnecessary. I find little to no content from the Bible that is going to convert me to another's God, or sign me up for an ignorant religion. The fact that Jesus' teachings are in the Bible is one of the greatest ironies of them all. :lol:

Perhaps you should concern yourself with crusades to aid and assist people facing real hardships, like the aforementioned? THAT would actually make the world a better place.  :thumbup:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineCER
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Re: God's ego... [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3293168 - 10/29/04 09:33 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

It is not about me "not being secure in my faith".

I will post a few verses here that you may have missed. Since you refer to it as an "ignorant religion" perhaps you are interested in what the scripture says about "YOUR" wisdom.

1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 1Co 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
1Co 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?


If you feel the whole conversation is unnecessary than why don't you leave the conversation??????

I'm not perceiving threats or crusading, I'm continuing the conversation, just as you are.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: God's ego... [Re: CER]
    #3293179 - 10/29/04 09:39 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

""If you feel the whole conversation is unnecessary than why don't you leave the conversation??????

I'm not perceiving threats or crusading, I'm continuing the conversation, just as you are. ""

nicly put!  :heart:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: God's ego... [Re: CER]
    #3293197 - 10/29/04 09:47 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

CER said:
It is not about me "not being secure in my faith".




Never said you weren't. :smirk:

Quote:


I will post a few verses here that you may have missed.  Since you refer to it as an "ignorant religion" perhaps you are interested in what the scripture says about "YOUR" wisdom.




For one thing, I personally distinguish between a relgious collection of texts and a religion that (suspossedly) follows it. I am interested in hearing, however, what the scripture apparently says about my wisdom. *reads following quote of scripture*

Quote:


1Co 1:18  For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 1Co 1:19  For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
1Co 1:20  Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?




So, what do I do now? Tremble before God's threat? Please. I honestly do not feel The Bible portrays in any way "God's word". I'm sorry if He is going to smite me for it, but I do not live a life of fear. :grin:

Quote:


If you feel the whole conversation is unnecessary than why don't you leave the conversation??????




Everything is unnecessary. In contrast of real sufferings and hardship, however, the hardship you face in this conversation appears even more unnecessary, doesn't it? If a belief causes you suffering, especially over simple, trivial matters - eliminate it. That will bring you closer to God, more than anything. 

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineCER
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Re: God's ego... [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3293239 - 10/29/04 10:01 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Fireworks god said:
So, what do I do now? Tremble before God's threat?

Gen6:7 Be not decieved, God is not mocked.

Jesus teaches...
Mat 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

He is talking about conversations that turn into this. Basically only God can open your eyes to the truth, and at this point I am casting my pearl to...well you read the scripture.


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OfflineCER
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Re: God's ego... [Re: CER]
    #3293245 - 10/29/04 10:03 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

My son is going to wake up soon from his nap,so gotta go,but can someone tell me what those mushrooms by my username are?


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OfflineGomp
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Re: God's ego... [Re: CER]
    #3293274 - 10/29/04 10:19 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

those are ratings. go check the comments :P


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OfflineCER
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Re: God's ego... [Re: Gomp]
    #3293310 - 10/29/04 10:29 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

THANKS!


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OfflineTripster
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Re: God's ego... [Re: CER]
    #3293445 - 10/29/04 11:12 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

CER said:
Tripster said:
"I was refering to the initial reaction of lashing out at someone and demeaning them because you don't agree with the thought introduced."

Gomp said:
is that a trip report? :P j\k h?h?

Tripster said:
LOL that's good.

So is this what you mean by not talking down to someone about their beliefs?


It meant it was funny to think of the bible as jesus's trip report. This being because I see the bible as nothing more than a story you take literally. You know, like a 5 year old when he sees Bambi for the first time.
Quote:



I’m not even sure what a trip report is, but I am assuming you mean “tripping”?

Tripster said:
we will never learn from each other when we are close minded

2Ti 4:2 preach the Word, be urgent in season, out of season, convict, warn, encourage with all long-suffering and teaching.
2Ti 4:3 For a time will be when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own lusts, they will heap up to themselves teachers tickling the ear;
2Ti 4:4 and they will turn away the ear from the truth and will be turned aside to myths.
2Ti 4:5 But you be clear-minded in all, suffer hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fully carry out your ministry.

1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 1Co 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
1Co 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

Tripster…You see the Bible teaches not to accept humanistic philosophy…I think, I wonder, the comic says, etc…
I am required by my beliefes to be able to defend my position. I’m not arguing with you, I’m trying to get you to see that I am right.

Sorry I don’t know how to use the quote feature on this forum yet.


I think the big misunderstanding here is you are continueing to imply I think this comic is the way things are. You're wrong. I don't believe god is real, not even real enough to capitalize the word god, let alone think he's pearched on a cloud crying cause he's lonely. It was a thought I introduced to let people read. In turn you began to belittle anyone who would think such a thought, or anyone whom would read a comic book as well. Such closed minded generalization, and categorization is pathetic. If I wanted to I could easily sum up why you are so defensive and IMO uneducated by realizing that your from the Midwest. But boy, wouldn't that be closed minded, much like yourself.


--------------------
You've raped! I feel dirty
It hurt! As a child
Tied down! That's a good boy
And fucked! Your own child
I scream! No one hears me
It hurt! I'm not a liar
My God! Saw you watching
Mommy why?! Your own child -Korn

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OfflineTripster
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Re: God's ego... [Re: Gomp]
    #3293470 - 10/29/04 11:20 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Gomp said:
Quote:

Tripster said:
Quote:

Gomp said:
did we just now talk about our views without having to tell the other person they're wrong?


You understand my point and are only getting anywhere in your arguement you're holding for the sake of argueing because my quote was out of context. I was refering to the initial reaction of lashing out at someone and demeaning them because you don't agree with the thought introduced. Take that quote and put it back in to that context and then decide if you still think it's that incorrect.




arguement??

and why do you assume I think it's incorrect?? if you assume so.. (?)


To challenge a thought usually implies one disagrees with it. I may have been wrong, and I'm sorry if so, but you gave me so little of what you're actually thinking and instead only a few lines that attempted to paint what I said in a different context.
Quote:



did we just again talk about our views without having to tell the other person they're wrong?


You seem to think this sentence is somehow binding what I said up in to a ball of incorrectness but what I said is so removed from what went with it your sentence here holds no ground. On top of that I also said that it does not apply to every topic of every conversation like you are trying to make it. So taken out of context and applied to things it was not meant to be applied to, yeah, you've got a point. Put what I said back in to context, and apply it to an appropriate topic such as religion, as we are discussing, and it is very valid. There's no reason to try to make someone sound inferior for not thinking your thoughts in relation to religion. I think it sounds retarded to worship some guy in a robe in the sky, but I'm not going to tell someone they're wrong because they do so. It's their own choice to make and I would much rather discuss it with them than get in to this mindless argeument over who's got it figured out. None of us do. Let's also just say I think closed mindedness is not a topic where two can agree to disagree. Closed minded is bad, open minded is good.


--------------------
You've raped! I feel dirty
It hurt! As a child
Tied down! That's a good boy
And fucked! Your own child
I scream! No one hears me
It hurt! I'm not a liar
My God! Saw you watching
Mommy why?! Your own child -Korn

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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: God's ego... [Re: CER]
    #3294363 - 10/29/04 03:28 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

I need a temple massage.



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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

Edited by SkorpivoMusterion (10/29/04 03:35 PM)

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OfflineGomp
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Re: God's ego... [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #3295144 - 10/29/04 07:46 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

a temple massage, is that like a message from the message it self? like i am not you but me? but to you i am you, and you are me? :P


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: God's ego... [Re: CER]
    #3296256 - 10/30/04 03:18 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

CER said:
He is talking about conversations that turn into this.  Basically only God can open your eyes to the truth, and at this point I am casting my pearl to...well you read the scripture.




Ja, your pearls are of so much great value, and quite beautiful, they lull me into a drugged sense of peace and make me ignore all that is around me. :lol:

You still haven't told me what specific position you are defending here, which point of yours was addressed and challenged. :smirk:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: God's ego... [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3297047 - 10/30/04 10:55 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Christ was first in creation I believe, to bear witness to God (A consciousness directly below god, but not equal to)

Jesus was a man, yet Christ entered his body. Because of this, Jesus now has eternal life (He doesnt die, because he fused with Christ) Thus, Jesus Christ.

He taught the way of Life. The way to Immortality. The way to Defeat Death and Sin. He was good from the start, and became Christed. It was meant to happen to show the people for this age the way to Eternity, to God, to end unecessary suffering.

He taught the straightest path to Christ.

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Re: God's ego... [Re: tekramrepus]
    #3297060 - 10/30/04 11:04 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Sounds pretty much good to me. :thumbup:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: God's ego... [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3297793 - 10/30/04 02:46 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

FG, I could be wrong because I'm making this judgment based on your seemingly sarcasm and biased signature, but I think you might be classifying CER as a fundamentalist Christian before you even completely understand his perspective.

fireworks_god said:

Even though said people could be a little ignorant and misinformed.

When it comes to matters of spirituality, no one is informed, and to claim otherwise (such as labeling someone as misinformed), is ignorant and bold.

[Christianity] is responsible for quite a lot of hardship and suffering in the past two thousand years.
Correction, mankind "is responsible for quite a lot of hardship and suffering in the past two thousand years."  To claim Christianity is responsible for these deeds, is a terrible generalization.  Not all Christians share the same perspective.

...it truly is wonderful that we must accept your thoughts and acknowledge them but that you do not need to accept ours.
When did CER claim we must accept his thoughts?  I only see a request for acknowledgment.

It must suck to be so insecure in one's faith that one must defend it.
Labeling someone insecure for discussing and justifying their faith in an S&P forum is just plain stupid.  Period.

How can you know Truth if your eyes are already closed? Such a thing to say, "I am right".
Such a thing to say someone's "eyes are already closed."  Are yours open?  Do you see Truth?  I'm sure you do.  I'm sure we all do, but it's completely subjective.  "Nothing is right or wrong, thinking makes it so."  --Shakespeare.

If one was secure in their faith, they wouldn't constantly perceive threats to it, and wouldn't feel the need to crusade against others in some attempt to try to prove justification of their faith.
Ironic...CER was never in the defensive until a crusade gave way to challenge his faith.  But this activity is common place in an S&P forum, so why the surprise?  Or did you just feel like earning some cool points for stating the obvious?

Quote:

CER said:
It is not about me "not being secure in my faith."



FG said:
Never said you weren't.

Earlier, you seemed to imply this (heavily) with a few statements.

Now everyone go to hell for hijacking my thread :razz:  Just kidding (I don't believe in hell)  :tongue:


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Re: God's ego... [Re: Viaggio]
    #3300816 - 10/31/04 10:17 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

viaggio said:
FG, I could be wrong because I'm making this judgment based on your seemingly sarcasm and biased signature, but I think you might be classifying CER as a fundamentalist Christian before you even completely understand his perspective.




I'd say you would indeed be wrong, especially by basing judgement on my signature. It was not said by me, although I definitely appreciate it. It has a great point, and is hilarious as well. :wink:

I do not lump any person or their ideas into some generality or label personally, but I do compare ideas of a person to common thought complexes. Thoughts are not unique to any one person, and their origins and substances can be traced. I can follow a thought I have now and find where the different aspects of it came from, what experiences led to it, why it is held, with what conviction it is held, etc. etc. etc. If anything, that is how that label might have become present in this thread, but that doesn't mean much and shouldn't be taken as anything beyond what it is. :grin:

I am always completely open to a person's perspective and never close my clear perspective of their perception. :tongue:

Quote:


Even though said people could be a little ignorant and misinformed.
When it comes to matters of spirituality, no one is informed, and to claim otherwise (such as labeling someone as misinformed), is ignorant and bold.




:lol: Labeling someone as ignorant and misinformed is ignorant? What about labeling someone ignorant for labeling someone else ignorant and misinformed?  :shocked:

Ahhh, isn't that just the thing, with individual perspective? We can only judge in terms of our own understandings and perspective. It really is subjective, but yet we are existing in an objective space (none of this space can be known objectively, of course :nut:), and so we interact and view other's thoughts through our own subjective perspective. All the while, this objective reality is there, although impossible to know objectively, it is entirely possible to know a lot of it subjectively, pretty dead on. So some perspectives, while right in their own respect, do not make sense in terms of reality.

Essentially, it might be difficult to know a lot, but we can know, in terms of relativity, in relation to other perspectives, other aspects, other ideas, and thoughts. To one who relates the perspective or thought or idea in question to a wider, understood perspective, based correctly on a wide variety of aspects, they will likely have a more total, understanding reality map.

I must inform you, at this point, that I am tired, am in two conversations, and don't have a lot of time, so I might not be expressing myself exactly as intended, but hopefully the meaning is still there. :grin:

Quote:


Correction, mankind "is responsible for quite a lot of hardship and suffering in the past two thousand years."  To claim Christianity is responsible for these deeds, is a terrible generalization.  Not all Christians share the same perspective.




Correction, I actually should have put "the belief in Christianity", which, essentially, clears that issue up a lot. It is indeed a generalization, but it covers a majority, which is all that was intended with that statement (which wasn't meant to be anything more than vauge).

Quote:


When did CER claim we must accept his thoughts?  I only see a request for acknowledgment.




CER said:
I am required by my beliefes to be able to defend my position. I?m not arguing with you, I?m trying to get you to see that I am right.


:wink:

Quote:


Labeling someone insecure for discussing and justifying their faith in an S&P forum is just plain stupid.  Period.




Then you misunderstand. There is a distinct difference between discussion and expression of an idea and defending it, which implies that one is in some way emotionally attached to the idea. It implies a sense of being threatened. Being emotionally attached and having feelings of being threatened means that one is not in touch with the moment, and it also means that their mind is obstructed. The free interchange of ideas becomes complicated, especially for themself, as they are not experiencing clarity, and are not in an open mind. Period. :tongue:

Quote:


How can you know Truth if your eyes are already closed? Such a thing to say, "I am right".
Such a thing to say someone's "eyes are already closed."  Are yours open?  Do you see Truth?  I'm sure you do.  I'm sure we all do, but it's completely subjective. 




It might be completely subjective, but it is completely subjective based on a complete objective, which, as I keep saying, can never be known objectively. There is a reality, and it is possible to understand it as much as possible from a subjective view point. It is all the same understanding here, all the same ideas, and it is possible to compare and relate other ideas and perspectives. To think that it is completely impossible to find common ground and compare and contrast and find similarities and differences between different people's perspectives is far too dreamy, and there are clear perspectives that are capable of seeing others for what they are, as a whole and for what they are.

Quote:


If one was secure in their faith, they wouldn't constantly perceive threats to it, and wouldn't feel the need to crusade against others in some attempt to try to prove justification of their faith.
Ironic...CER was never in the defensive until a crusade gave way to challenge his faith.  But this activity is common place in an S&P forum, so why the surprise?  Or did you just feel like earning some cool points for stating the obvious?




This quote of mine is really a continuation of the one concerning defense, and was not directly about CER or the happenings of this thread. While this thread and what has been said in this obviously influenced my thoughts and what I said, everything I have said is not based entirely on it, and go into meanings beneath the surface.

Anyways, it doesn't matter what provoked it, going into defense of an idea or a thought is still one own's choice, and is a negative thing to do. Perceiving something as a threat, or perceiving a need to defend, stems from something, and one possibillity is an insecurity, in fact, it probably is. My statement is pretty self-explanatory, therefore. :grin:

Quote:


Earlier, you seemed to imply this (heavily) with a few statements.




One thought leads to another, and soon I am expressing thoughts and ideas that aren't completely related to exactly what was said or what is going on, despite they are obviously related in some way, as they sprang from them. If I was directly implying this about CER, I would have came right out and said it. :grin:

I think I haven't been too clear in some parts of this post, and used the same words too many times in the same paragraph.. I'm truly sorry, I'm too tired to be able to think clearly... :grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineViaggio
ChemicalConsumer

Registered: 07/05/03
Posts: 1,296
Last seen: 18 years, 2 months
Re: God's ego... [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3304812 - 11/01/04 01:25 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Word :thumbup:


--------------------
"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."

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