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OfflineHidingInPlainSight
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Followed MJ's method of san pedro preparation with no avail
    #3277566 - 10/26/04 01:03 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

-Me and a friend took a 14" San pedro cactus and chopped it up into stars.
-Chopped the stars into fourths.
-Put one cup of cactus water to a cup of cactus and blended it thoroughly.
-Did the same with rest of cactus bits , added all to a large pan.
-We then added a little more water to the pan and slowly brought it to a steady boil.
-Boiled down for about 3.5 hours until there was only a small amount of liquid left, then strained

My friend drank what was strained and got zero effects. Next day we took the stuff we strained and re-boiled it but for 9 hours (we thought we didn't boil long enough the first time).. my friend drank the product from the second try with no effects.

What went wrong?


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Offlinemushiemountain
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Re: Followed MJ's method of san pedro preparation with no avail [Re: HidingInPlainSight]
    #3277591 - 10/26/04 01:09 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Maybe weak cacti?


--------------------
I Ain't No Fool. Mama Didn't Raise No Fool.
----------primussucks


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OfflineHidingInPlainSight
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Registered: 01/27/03
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Re: Followed MJ's method of san pedro preparation with no avail [Re: mushiemountain]
    #3277625 - 10/26/04 01:18 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Not sure... I'd think with 14" of it you would feel at least a little something. he experienced no effects whatsoever and fell asleep about 2-3 hours afterwards.


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Offlinerunnerup
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Re: Followed MJ's method of san pedro preparation with no avail [Re: HidingInPlainSight]
    #3278149 - 10/26/04 05:06 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Where did you get the cacti from? It doesnt sound like san pedro, with mescaline.


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Offlinekoppie
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Re: Followed MJ's method of san pedro preparation with no avail [Re: runnerup]
    #3278244 - 10/26/04 06:14 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Very strange. Even a thin pedro that long should make your friend at least feel something, unless he's a mescaline hard-head.

How thick was the cactus? Was the drink bitter? Tell us more.


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
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Re: Followed MJ's method of san pedro preparation with no avail [Re: HidingInPlainSight]
    #3278485 - 10/26/04 08:58 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

You probably had a species of the genera cereus rather than Thricacereus pachanoi.

There are several look-a-like cacti which resemble San Pedro. There are over 13 varieties of san pedro or rather 13 varities of Thriococereus sp.

mj

Believe me when I say it works. And as noted above, even a 6-10 inch cacti would have given you some effects.

It is my belief that you ate a cactus which was something other than San Pedro.

I and dozens of my friends have used this method since the early 1970s when we were first turned onto san pedro. If it is a real cactus than you would have felt the effects.

mj


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InvisibleAyrios
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Re: Followed MJ's method of san pedro preparation with no avail [Re: HidingInPlainSight]
    #3278644 - 10/26/04 10:38 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

7" isn't much. I've done 16" with only dreamy thoughts and a horrible amphetamine comedown.

If san pedro is taken care of too well, it can come out very impotent.


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InvisibleKoala Koolio
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Re: Followed MJ's method of san pedro preparation with no avail [Re: Ayrios]
    #3278840 - 10/26/04 11:45 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

"My friend drank what was strained and got zero effects. "


His friend drank all 14" worth.


--------------------
You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
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Re: Followed MJ's method of san pedro preparation with no avail [Re: Ayrios]
    #3278904 - 10/26/04 12:12 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Ayrios siad,
Quote:

If san pedro is taken care of too well, it can come out very impotent.




That makes o no sense at all.

mj


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InvisibleKoala Koolio
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Re: Followed MJ's method of san pedro preparation with no avail [Re: mjshroomer]
    #3279123 - 10/26/04 01:23 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Perhaps he meant by weight. If a cactus is watered as frequently as you can without killing it, it will weigh more because of the water, even become thicker. 1 pound of this would not be equal to a pound of stressed cacti, which could possibly be 2 feet worth.


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InvisibleAyrios
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Re: Followed MJ's method of san pedro preparation with no avail [Re: mjshroomer]
    #3279298 - 10/26/04 02:11 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

You of all people should know the alkaloids are something of a self-defense mechanism. If a cactus is well cared for, it won't produce as many alkaloids and will be less potent. Come on now... It 'o' does make sense.

Quote:


His friend drank all 14" worth.





Very well. I can still believe it was san pedro. No one has asked him if he was on any meds. A med that can kill your roll can also kill your serotonergic trip.


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InvisibleKoala Koolio
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Re: Followed MJ's method of san pedro preparation with no avail [Re: Ayrios]
    #3279394 - 10/26/04 02:32 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Although the stressing/alkaloid theory is used quite a lot, it's also been bashed a lot, and I've never seen actual proof that its true besides the very obvious weight of the cactus dropping, so that ratio goes up.

And, sometimes people don't trip off 14". Like ayrios said, an SSRI could weaken the hell out of a trip on many many substances

http://forums.lycaeum.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=001445

But, probably not to the degree that it kills an MDMA trip.


--------------------
You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!


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InvisibleAyrios
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Re: Followed MJ's method of san pedro preparation with no avail [Re: Koala Koolio]
    #3279434 - 10/26/04 02:42 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

elgr said:But, probably not to the degree that it kills an MDMA trip.




True. It won't be as extreme with a true psychedelic like mescaline...

I don't think there's any argument that cactus potency varies wildly... We've seen too many examples here. The thickness was never mentioned also. I absolutely believe it's possible to not trip off of 14" though.


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InvisibleTeragon
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Re: Followed MJ's method of san pedro preparation with no avail [Re: HidingInPlainSight]
    #3279657 - 10/26/04 03:40 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Try this:

After boiling for a couple hrs (2), strain off the plant matter before you boil the solution down very much at all (add more water if you need, but I normally don't). I like to strain when there is still lotsa water.

Store the strained water in a container or start boiling it down in a separate pot if you want/have a lot.

Take the strained cactus matter and throw it back in the original pot with some more water. Boil for another hour/two. Strain this and collect the filtered cactus juice. Throw the filtered juice in with the other strained juice you have evap'ing/storing.

Do this one more time with the cactus matter again. More water and back in the pot for a while. By the time you have finished the third extract (remember to combine all three filtrated liquids into one pot/container for evap'ing), the plant matter should taste like spongy-cardboard with no bitter/alkaloid taste whatsoever. It also starts to lose some color.

So know you got a shitload of juice (that's why you start boiling one down while you do the next extract), that you can boil down to a few ounces. Yes that is right...a few ounces. I've heard some people say a shot but that is pushing it.

On Friday I did 23" of both Peruvians and Pachanoi (13" and 10" respectively) and was able to boil it down to about 4-5 ounces. It starts to get to a "heavy cream" consistency- you're definitely good by then. You can stop before then but don't need too. Depends on what you wanna do.

Note: When the solution reaches a thick green color (losing lotsa water- maybe at like 12 ounces or so) it would be of benefit to set up a double boiler. This prevents the bottom heat source from "burning" mescaline molecules that are touching/resting at the bottom(since juice is so concentrated). Another way to avoid this is to just stir for like the last half hour to hour. Now while this is not necessary(double boiler/stirring), it probably helps to keep some extra mescaline in your sample.

I agree that 14" shoulda got you off, even with one extraction (it helps that it was such a long one). So maybe you do really have a different variety of Trich.

Either way, this syrup I refer to is called Nan's (from thenook.org) Pedro Syrup...

But they way I do it is like a replica of MJShroomer's tek, just re-worked to fit the syrup bill.

It's my blend of the two techniques...works wonders.

MJ- I wanted to thank you for making that pictorial, b/c I have referred to it multiple times. Thanks again man for the good contribution- people at the Shroomery really appreciate it!


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need that cash to feed them jones.


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OfflineHidingInPlainSight
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Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 2,076
Loc: Portland, OR
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: Followed MJ's method of san pedro preparation with no avail [Re: mjshroomer]
    #3282268 - 10/27/04 01:15 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

mjshroomer said:
You probably had a species of the genera cereus rather than Thricacereus pachanoi.

There are several look-a-like cacti which resemble San Pedro. There are over 13 varieties of san pedro or rather 13 varities of Thriococereus sp.

mj

Believe me when I say it works. And as noted above, even a 6-10 inch cacti would have given you some effects.

It is my belief that you ate a cactus which was something other than San Pedro.

I and dozens of my friends have used this method since the early 1970s when we were first turned onto san pedro. If it is a real cactus than you would have felt the effects.

mj




My Pedro was from BBB. Any other suggestions on what went wrong?


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: Followed MJ's method of san pedro preparation with no avail [Re: HidingInPlainSight]
    #3282703 - 10/27/04 03:23 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

I have also used BBB for san pedro. I have no idea what you did. But when I have prepared it for dozens of people over a thirty year period in the same way and no one ebver had a problem. And I get many emails form others ywho use my preaparation method.

I can say no more.

mj


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InvisibleKoala Koolio
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Re: Followed MJ's method of san pedro preparation with no avail [Re: mjshroomer]
    #3282730 - 10/27/04 03:38 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

I've heard a lot of success with MJ's method. Perhaps more than any other method I've read about. Thats probably because it seems pretty foolproof. However, there do seem to be a lot of less potent pedros out there, and whether its 14", 12", whatever, it simply might not be enough. Perhaps the particular cactus is too young, too skinny, lots of things.

I'll be giving 14" a shot of a few random pedro this friday. Some of it is from BBB and some is from an ebay vendor. Using MJ's method. Whether it works out or not I'll be sure to post back.

Edit: And MJ, I'd like to give you congrats on clearly having excellent sources of cacti for the past 30 years. You clearly have great source, and preperation if you've been preparing people with even 6"-10" doses and achieving effects. Perhaps its just your trippy charm that gets them tripping before the mesc even sets in? :wink:


Edited by elgr (10/27/04 03:41 AM)


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OfflineHidingInPlainSight
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Re: Followed MJ's method of san pedro preparation with no avail [Re: mjshroomer]
    #3284555 - 10/27/04 03:42 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

I'm not sugesting there is a flaw in your method, just asking you to analyze what I did :smile:


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InvisibleAyrios
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Re: Followed MJ's method of san pedro preparation with no avail [Re: Koala Koolio]
    #3284635 - 10/27/04 04:01 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Charm, bwahahaha... Wonder if he's ever heard that before? :P


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Offlineneuro
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Re: Followed MJ's method of san pedro preparation with no avail [Re: Ayrios]
    #3285656 - 10/27/04 07:21 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

I really wish people would give up this plant alkaloid theory shennaningans. The presence of alkaloids in plants seems to have a WIDE variety of usages, and times of no water increasing the alkaloid content of a pedro or peyote sounds plausible, but there's no studies that back it up, and there've been many eloquent refutations, some being that the biosynthetic pathway may require water, further reducing the the water retention of the cactus.

Asking any respected, and degree holding, plant enthuseist they'll say alkaloids are likely a plant protection mechanism with MANY exceptions. If someone were to ask me what I think the "purpose" of mescaline being in the cactus is, my (correct) response is, "I don't know." And regarding the alkaloid level based on drought conditions, the correct answer is "studies have not been done, so i don't know."


Regarding the SSRI theory, though we can't be completely sure that mescaline doesn't have some sort of Serotonin (and subtype) cross itnerference, i'd venture to say that an SSRI may not have a direct effect on the Mescaline. Since mescaline is more structurally similar to Dopamine and Noepinephrine (i'm basing this on the pharmaological structure to action theory), i'd say that it probably acts on those receptors and not on Serotonin receptors (though perhaps it might act on S3 which is well known for producing nausea). Any diminishing effect SSRI's might have may be due to secondary interference due to hightened serotonin receptor activity. MDMA has some interesting properties as it acts as a norepinephrine agonist and a serotonin agonist. And has some interesting mechanisms involved with reuptake "vaccuums" on neurons which explains the interference of SSRIs, but again we can't pin it down since SSRI's act globally on all Serotonin receptor types and subtypes.


blah blah blah blah blah.


regarding the cactus inefectiveness. The best answer is "who knows"


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