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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Psychedelics and death.
    #3280961 - 10/26/04 06:54 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

My own experiences on psychedelics seem to suggest that death is "going home" permanently. ...That it is something to be welcomed with open arms when your time comes.

Now... I'm not saying we should all join Heaven's Gate.. but all signs seem to point to death being "the answer" we all seem to want to know. But.. at the same time I interpret it as being something that I am not supposed to know yet.

Death is like the ace up my sleeve in a game that never truly ends... I can either play it early and take the easy way out... (sure I might have "won", but at the cost of the faith in my abilities to play the game through without cheating.) or I can play the game fair and keep it in my sleeve until the day it falls out on it's own and I'm forcefully removed from the game by hired thugs.

This may seem like a strange metaphor, but think it through.

Did you see the movie K-Pax? At the end he dies.. but he dies at the same time that he repeatedly claimed his alien friends would be picking him up.

There is a boundary that we cannot cross without the commitment of truly letting go with no intent of ever coming back. To many, this means you're dead. You're buried in the ground, and you cease to exist mentally.

But no one truly knows, until it's their turn.

...I realize most of this is just rambling and somewhat inconsistent, but the basic thought I am trying to express here is that death could very well be massively mis-interpretted.

How can one claim a state of spiritual groundedness without acknowledging the mystery of death as being open-ended? How can anyone who goes around making statements on the assumed basis that death is a bad thing possibly be seeing things open-mindedly when it's one of the only things that is undeniably impossible for us to know for sure?

Would anyone care to share their own psychedelic experiences on the subject of death?

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Invisibledblaney
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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3281032 - 10/26/04 07:06 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I would agree, I find it too much of a coincidence that a large mass of cells suddenly finds itself with a consciousness, then lives with it for ~90 years, then dies and this consciousness dies too. There is a spark somewhere that creates the human conscious. To think that it dies when our bodies die is silly. K-Pax was a good movie, and this situation is similar to that of the book The Little Prince. I do believe that there is another plane of existence that we have access to when our time comes. Making your time come early...well I think that would be a tragedy. There is much to be learned and gained from life in this plane, even if it is that all people suck (I don't necessarily agree, but this is one possible mindset of a suicidal person).

But yes, I do think that there are other realms of existence.


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"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
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OfflineGomp
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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3281057 - 10/26/04 07:10 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

going to bead, so real short, but..
death is somewhat connected to the process of rotting?
as long as there are something to be conscious, a "intact shell" to return to, you live.
gona take on this tomorrow, love this topic

but for now, I'm gonna go die in by bed (just play along will ya :P)
exhale = dieing? mind??
inhale = living? body??

good night! hehe


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: dblaney]
    #3281122 - 10/26/04 07:22 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Ah, but I think it's important to clarify the difference in our beliefs.

You've stated that you believe our consciousness must continue on after death.

What I'm saying is that I entertain the possibility of this being true, but do not necessarily materialize a belief in it. Instead, I see death as a big surprise. Maybe I'll continue on, and maybe I won't... either way, the suspense is killing me. Har har.

But seriously.. to state a belief of continued consciousness is the same (to me) as stating a belief of end of life at 'death'. I find both foolish, because we cannot know yet. One day we will know, but not yet.

The acceptance of not knowing is what allows one to put down the emotional attachments to death.

All too often people associate acceptance of not knowing with a nihilistic attitude of not trying.. but on the contrary, by accepting I do not know and will not find out until it is my turn, I effectively relieve myself of the burden of wondering one way or another. This actually allows me to live life more freely... instead of wondering to myself, "What's the point?" I've uncovered an even better question: "What do I want to be the point?"

Life's meaning is found in the acknowledgement of our own ability to find our own meaning.. which is often overlooked when we are busy thinking that we are going to find the 'true' (illusory term) meaning.

...Just wanted to clarify the difference between our beliefs before any self-proclaimed skeptics come in and lump all "believers" together into a bunch of UFO-chasing alien-huggers...

Not that I'm pointing any fingers. :smile:

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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: Gomp]
    #3281126 - 10/26/04 07:22 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Nice post jacques :laugh:

Those are pretty much my view when it comes to death, in that we have to let go of the desire to come back in order to fully emerge into whatever 'truth' it enlightens our consciousness to.

However, the idea of reincarnation comes into play. It's one of the concepts that I'm basically completely on the fence about, as the idea of it seems to tie into my experiences, but I have no direct reason to assume reincarnation exists. If it does though, then I think the act of truly letting go at death will be what leads to nirvana/heaven/enlightenment/*other vague label of the undescribable*.

I think the same thing can be done prior to bodily death, but it would be that much harder to let go of the connection to the body as well as the desires for survival and continuing experiences ect. Kind of like 'the door' thread I posted.

What's funny is that as much as we theorize about death and whatnot, the experience is inevitable for all of us (besides the immortal swami of course :smile:). The transition IS going to happen. WE are going to experience it in all of it's wonder or lack thereof. No matter what we think the truth is, we will all experience the actual truth soon.

To be honest, I'm a little curious  :slider:


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Offlinelovelight
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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3281142 - 10/26/04 07:25 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

I realize most of this is just rambling and somewhat inconsistent, but the basic thought I am trying to express here is that death could very well be massively mis-interpretted




Death has deffinately got a bad reputation. Religions instill fear in us of the afterlife - judgement by a higher power or type of reincarnation, etc. on the other hand, science instills fear in us with its lack of afterlife, of ceasing to exist completely, and therefore the lack of purpose for living in the first place.

Quote:

My own experiences on psychedelics seem to suggest that death is "going home" permanently. ...That it is something to be welcomed with open arms when your time comes.




Mine too... Psychedelics and the notion of ego loss have helped me understand and accept the idea of physical death too...


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: deff]
    #3281179 - 10/26/04 07:31 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

deff said:
To be honest, I'm a little curious  :slider:




Me too man, me too. :smile:

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Invisiblechunder
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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: lovelight]
    #3281189 - 10/26/04 07:34 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I think it would be funny if when we died, it turned out to be a wild party of cosmic goodness. We'd die and then be all like, whoa, if I would have known it was this good I woulda got outta that damned body sooner! It would be like having a body and being alive was just some kind of short stage of experience, and it was almost a cosmic joke that we even took it seriously at all.

I get on this thought train a lot when tripping.

Good thread  :thumbup:


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: lovelight]
    #3281224 - 10/26/04 07:40 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Indeed lovelight... I think it's worth noting that science and religion have both such deeply instilled fear of death in most people that we tend to, without thought, tag death with a "bad" tag when taking previously-assumed facts for granted.

If that's unclear, what I mean is like.. in any given conversational situation, death is often "assumed" to be bad. It is only in the occasional very specific conversation (such as this one) that we tend to consider otherwise by specifically targetting death as the subject of discussion.

The rest of the time our egos kick in and automatically tag death as "bad" when it is encountered in a less direct and awareness-inducing way, such as it being the secondary content of a statement.

If I'm still being unclear, I'm speaking of the difference between, for instance, this statement:

"Death may or may not be the end of our consciousness."

and this statement:

"Hey, did you hear bob died?"

When our brains encounter the second statement, the death part is handled by our ego and is automatically deemed bad without us even bothering to think about it.

These kinds of "programmings" can be difficult to deal with, but at the same time you can learn a lot about moving awareness into different emotional states from this kind of thing.

Perhaps the next time we hear that someone died we will sit and ponder where they might have gone with wonder, instead of just allowing our egos to push emotions of sadness on us.

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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: chunder]
    #3281245 - 10/26/04 07:43 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Hahaha.. yeah, I've thought that kind of thing before too.

It's thoughts like that that lead me to discourage people from viewing suicide as necessarily a negative.

Edit: P.S. Does your avatar have any meaning? I've always liked it. The contrast between the background texturing and the foreground object just makes my brain smile. :smile:

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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3281249 - 10/26/04 07:44 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

To be honest, I don't consider death automatically a bad thing.

I recognize that most people do, such as in your example.

But I just view it as an inevitable surprise :laugh:


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3281252 - 10/26/04 07:45 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I agree...no one living on this planet can be entirely certain. In fact, what I said earlier is nothing more than a hunch, a speculation. But in all honesty no one will know until it happens to them.

The ego is a very powerful thing...hence the necessity to not let it get out of hand by 'killing' it every once in a while...putting it in its place.

This is an interesting thread that touches on existentialism...which of course I love discussing, so I'll be back!


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
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Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: deff]
    #3281273 - 10/26/04 07:48 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Well to be honest, neither do I..

but I'm also willing to admit that there are definitely times when my ego is kicking stronger than my awareness, and at those times I tend to react to death negatively.

Besides, nothing sounds more arrogant than acting as if I am beyond my own advice.

My advice is aimed at others and myself... a form of reassurance of the direction in which I should be moving.

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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3281290 - 10/26/04 07:52 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

:smile:

Even those who fear death still die, so what's the point?


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: deff]
    #3281309 - 10/26/04 07:56 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Why you askin' me? :wink:

Heheh.. I think we're on the same page...

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Offlinelovelight
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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3281347 - 10/26/04 08:01 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Perhaps the next time we hear that someone died we will sit and ponder where they might have gone with wonder, instead of just allowing our egos to push emotions of sadness on us.




Exactly...

Back to the psychedelics too: I think society would be better off in many ways if they explored these pearls of wisdom. Understanding death means understanding life better also... the negative notions and boundaries imposed on our culture would surely disappear.


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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3281367 - 10/26/04 08:05 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I thought in K-Pax it turned out that there really was an alien but it had been possessing robert parkers body, and then the alien left robert parkers body and took one of the mental patients back to kpax...

how otherwise could you explain the video camera distortion and missing mental patient?


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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: lovelight]
    #3281371 - 10/26/04 08:05 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

It was rhetorical :cool:

All this talk about death is making me hungry


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Offlinelovelight
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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: deff]
    #3281398 - 10/26/04 08:09 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

hahahha    eat some :mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2:

Edited by lovelight (10/26/04 08:10 PM)

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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: lovelight]
    #3281418 - 10/26/04 08:11 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

And at the same time get a new perspective on death!!


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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: MovingTarget]
    #3281445 - 10/26/04 08:15 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

My next fungus feast is on thursday :cool:

For now, it's cheese and crackers...


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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: deff]
    #3281530 - 10/26/04 08:27 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I worked hard to today so i can trip tomorow

gonna make some strong liberty cap brew, and go for a walk into tha wilderness :laugh:


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: deff]
    #3281545 - 10/26/04 08:29 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Heh.. my next journey won't be for a long while.. I've got some kind of stomach problem going on that's been an on-going problem for over a year.. and while mushrooms make me feel better mentally by the end, there is a lot of major discomfort for the first couple hours.

I'm looking forward to the day I can enjoy it again, though.

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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3281569 - 10/26/04 08:31 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Sorry to hear :/

Been a while since my last feast, and these are my first homegrown ones. 3g, lots of aborts, should fill me up :smile:

7 hours + pitch black + no movement + fungus = wow :cool:


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Offlinelovelight
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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: deff]
    #3281590 - 10/26/04 08:35 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Then deff, on thursday how about you add to the thread?  :grin:
you too movingtarget!

I feel for you jacques! I'm sure when you are better it will be an extra special experience! in the meantime, enjoy learning from life just the same!

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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: lovelight]
    #3281600 - 10/26/04 08:37 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

It'll have to be friday.

Thursday I'll be floating through oscillating frequencies of some higher mind within a slice of pie.

Or something bizarre like that :laugh:

Hopefully I'll have learned some stuff to post on friday :thumbup:


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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: deff]
    #3281608 - 10/26/04 08:38 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

hahaha ok... good things come to those who wait... enjoy!!!  :eek:

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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: deff]
    #3281617 - 10/26/04 08:39 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I dunno if i really wanna be thinkin about death on ma next shroom trip though lol

we'll see :laugh:


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: lovelight]
    #3281625 - 10/26/04 08:41 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks for the positive reinforcement from each of you...

It is kind of a bummer to have to with-hold from my favorite substance, but I honestly feel like I put myself in this place in a way. I've had a dependancy on marijuana for a couple years that I'm just now shaking, and I know a part of me was secretly planning to replace my constant marijuana use with intermittent mushroom use... but at the same time another part of me knew that isn't much better.

So it's kind of like my body's doing exactly what it needs to to force me to go sober for a while.. which is what I think will be best for me anyway. :smile:

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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: MovingTarget]
    #3281627 - 10/26/04 08:41 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

It's inevitable :laugh:

Seriously, there's probably more things I think about than things I don't, heh.

It's like a year of hardcore thinking packed into a colourful six hour session :laugh:


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: deff]
    #3281749 - 10/26/04 09:08 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah man.. sounds like you know how to have a good time on psychedelics. :wink:

My favorite part of tripping is the increased brain abilities, by far.

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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3281842 - 10/26/04 09:24 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

hmm cool stuff

my own trips and life have led me to think the following about death

alrite... basically , the entirety of existance is a dream, dreamt by god, basically, the 'universal dreamer' the dream changes , it shifts, but it is basically eternal.

Even we, the individual dreamers, are still part of that larger dream, which springs continuously from the infiinite source or fountain that is god. When we are born, a tiny chunk of that infinite light (i use light because light is the carrier of information, and everything is information) the light of god, is solidified into matter and conciousness.

Thus we are given this chance to play this role in this part of this dream. At death, the vibrations of the light return to their original speed or frequency, and our bodies and minds desolidify and return to the source, to god.

This is indeed 'coming home'

Now, i dont know that we will be concious in this state as we think of it now, but that is because our current definition of conciousness is so limited. Maybe it will just be a mindless bliss, or eternal quiet, or maybe we will be concious in some other form.

I also think that we will dwell in this place of light, with god, for a certain span of time (but we will have transcended time, so it will be like a heartbeat AND an eternity) before returning again to manifest in another temporary part of the dream.

quotes

"you would know the secret of life, but how can you find it unless you seek it in the heart of life? if you would indeed behold the spirit of death, open your heart wide unto the body of life, for life and death are one, even as the river and sea are one"

"for what is to die but to stand naked in the wind and melt into the sun? and what is it to cease breathing but to free the breath from its restless tides, that it may rise and expand and seek god unencomperd?"

"a little while, and my longing shall gather dust and foam for another body. A little while, a moment of rest upon the wind, and another woman shall bear me"

-kahlil Gibran, the prophet


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3281884 - 10/26/04 09:36 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Damn man, have you been reading the Bhagavad Gita too? That is pretty much exactly what you just described.


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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3281948 - 10/26/04 09:56 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I love thinking about death. I spend most of my day contemplating on death, but in a positive "Hm..I wonder what's going to happen," type of way, not a negative way. I used to be really terrified of death until I started becoming interested in Buddhism and read the Tibetan Book of the Dead. I'm going to die, no way around it, so I might as well look at it as another adventure. I'm excited about the process of death. Meanwhile, I try to live my life as well and as throughly as I can.

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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: MOTH]
    #3282172 - 10/26/04 10:52 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

*takes a deep breath*

Thanks guys

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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: CrispyInfidel]
    #3283326 - 10/27/04 08:05 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Great responses everyone...

"mindless bliss, or eternal quiet" Honestly, it sounds like a relief from this busy world we now live in.

I think of it as a great wonderful sleep.. like we've been awake for 90 years straight and we finally get to go to bed.

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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: MOTH]
    #3283329 - 10/27/04 08:07 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Ellemysh.. hahaha.. "Shrooms: It's all fun and games until someone loses an "I.""

What a wonderful little tidbit.

At my place of work (where I am right now) there are a couple magnets in some peoples' areas that say:

"I must be a mushroom, because everyone likes to feed me bullshit and keep me in the dark."

:smile:

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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3283353 - 10/27/04 08:19 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

""I think of it as a great wonderful sleep.. ""

ya, think of dreaming, where does that happen? same "plane" as where you would be "stuck" if your body rottens?


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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3283382 - 10/27/04 08:30 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I haven't had a lot of psychadelic experiences relating to death, but I've come to regard death in a natural, passing sort of way - we are able to connect to a pure awareness, a light, but this awareness, this consciousness, transcends this physical body, and that any sort of identification with it or with "me" will pass along with myself... the awareness will forever be there, this body merely accesses it. When the radio is broken, the radio signals it received, translated, and amplified will forever continue to be there.... as if the radio never even existed... :grin:

I don't feel that my mind and all that it identifies with will continue after the death of this physical body in some other realm, or that I have some sort of spirit that can be identified as me, or will continue on my thoughts and my memories... perhaps this pure awareness, this silent observer will store such, but it doesn't effect it..... the body is of nature and the mind just a result of the connection of it to this pure awareness, energy, consciousness, whatever...

I don't see this view as bleak, or pessimistic... Of course, there are unlimited possibillites for what death brings, as we will never know until it arrives (if we, even then, know), but this is what I feel at the time. Nothing to fear, nothing to cherish... just the last chemical reaction this body will take a part of as a living body. :wink:

:mushroom2:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


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:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3283397 - 10/27/04 08:36 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

when i wake up in the moring, my dreams die right away :P
I could do first aid and keep it alive, but it wil eventually die, jst like i will when i one day enter that relm, whitouth a body to return to? :P if im repetetive? well, dont read me? :P hehe

"There may even be puritan fanatics of the conscience who prefer to lie down and die on a certain nothing than on an unknown something."
-unknown


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Edited by Gomp (10/27/04 08:41 AM)

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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: Gomp]
    #3283441 - 10/27/04 08:55 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

pretty posts...


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Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.


~Casil



:cactus:

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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3283443 - 10/27/04 08:56 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

the only death I experienced was a mental or egotistical death.

there's still physical death that we have no idea of yet.

and there's still the death of awareness that we haven't experienced yet.

metal death for me was all about silence.  being quiet, being still, and not having a judgemental attitude with everything that is.

the death I experienced showed me the beauty it a lot of silence and the beauty of not knowing.

my label had completly vanished, but my existence was still here. I didn't know where i was, nor who I was, but I was still here for some reason :wink:

and for some reason, I didn't care either.  my mind was so quiet from this experience, I couldn't think of a thing.  i noticed how often my mind was chattering and it felt calming and soothing to lessen the input and let go.

now I can only realate this to physical death by the same things that went away from mental or ego death, but it pales in comparison

the where is gone
the input is gone

what are you left with?

you could have awareness, and with no physical input, and there's nothing for the awareness to experience but silence.

silence on a level we know not of because there's  always noise and there's always input.


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: kaiowas]
    #3283452 - 10/27/04 09:00 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

my own deaths have lead me to believe that i will die again, and it will be as comfortable of an experience as i make it.

you may not see me smile when i die, but that is only because ill be paying attention to whats going on.

peace


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.


~Casil



:cactus:

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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: Todcasil]
    #3283576 - 10/27/04 09:40 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I still mainly believe that once you die thats the end.  You wont realise it, but it doesnt matter as the next human born could be YOU!!

Thats a strange thoguht to think about, as soon as you die there will be a conciousness born somewhere and instantly one of us will be created anew :laugh:


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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: MovingTarget]
    #3284644 - 10/27/04 02:03 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Death occurs in "linear time" transition infinitely. There, you just died, and so did I :smile:

The problem arises when we (or dundunduuuun... the 'ego') relates its sense of self back to previous moments of the organism. When we think that we are the "person" that sat down at the chair that 'we' are sitting at right now. Really, that person is "dead" in our sense of the word, lost 'behind' this frame in time and inaccesable by our known means.

That person still exists in spacetime though, which is another thing which is often forgotten and makes death seem much more 'permanent'. We've already died and we haven't been born, and yet we're here simuntaneously. Everything, not just spatial happenings in a single moment, but in all momemts and all "dimensions" - exists as one singular "thing". Even after other's 'linear' consciousness flows past the event of our bodily death, the 'us' that 'once' lived is still alive, here :smile:

We die infinitely in the sense that us (which is constantly changing - both on the atomic level and on levels more relative to our perceptions - personality, appearance, ect ect).

And yet we are never 'dead' in the sense that all always exists forever as one.

Or something :smile:


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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: deff]
    #3284727 - 10/27/04 02:23 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

i think we're talkin death when like our heart stops beating lol


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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: MovingTarget]
    #3284787 - 10/27/04 02:34 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

it stopped just there...
oh, it went again (i think)
:smile:

I realize what 'death' is, heh, but I was saying why the concept of it one usually associates with the word is sort of misleading. The seperation between your body and the not-body is not absolute like most assume, but is infinitely interchanged, grey, and always changing through time.

It is our precision of awareness which leads to this black/white model of self. Really, the structure of the body is always changing, and thus always dying to it's next timeframe, its next form. You can say that when the body stops functioning in the way we associate life with, then death occurs, but this is just an external observation.

The atoms that make up our bodies are thought to never die. It is only the mutual organism that arises out of the complex structure of them that ceases to 'function'.

I dunno, I don't think life and death is black and white like it seems :smile:


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InvisibleMovingTarget

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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: deff]
    #3284814 - 10/27/04 02:38 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Ok i totaly understand what your saying!

BUT

Maybe this thread shoulda have been titled

'Psychedelics and our perception of the death of our mind'  to avoid confusion

:laugh:


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Psychedelics and our perception of the death of our mind. [Re: MovingTarget]
    #3284829 - 10/27/04 02:40 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Heh, probably :cool: ^


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Psychedelics and our perception of the death of our mind. [Re: deff]
    #3284900 - 10/27/04 02:56 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

so, if linear time is an illusion, and all things happen simultaneously, how can we die? but then, how can we be born? unless, we are constantly being born and dieing every illusonary instant!

:eek:


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Everything I post is fiction.

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InvisibleMovingTarget

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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: MovingTarget]
    #3284904 - 10/27/04 02:56 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MovingTarget said:
I worked hard to today so i can trip tomorow

gonna make some strong liberty cap brew, and go for a walk into tha wilderness :laugh:




Its almost time  :laugh:

although i met be better stayin inside as its pitch black outside  :smirk:


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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: MovingTarget]
    #3284926 - 10/27/04 03:01 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Good 'luck' :cool:
Hope you have an insightful journey :thumbup:

And moonshoe - Yes :smile:. But keep in mind you're trying to condition these experiences around the faulty logic of absolute life/death. It sounds absurd, but you're absolutely right :smile:


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InvisibleMovingTarget

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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: deff]
    #3285146 - 10/27/04 03:34 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

thanks man, its brewing this very moment


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: MovingTarget]
    #3285313 - 10/27/04 04:06 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

""so, if linear time is an illusion""

or linear time is a meschure metode inverted by man? and all things happen simultaneously only changing? :P


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Disclaimer!?

Edited by Gomp (10/27/04 04:07 PM)

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Offlinedeff
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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: Gomp]
    #3285317 - 10/27/04 04:07 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

same difference :laugh:


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: deff]
    #3285331 - 10/27/04 04:09 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

illusion is man made?
is it not only man made letters making a word? :P hihi not arguing you statment. just adding a wiev.. :wink:
dont mind this off-topic post, got caried away a bit there ;P


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Edited by Gomp (10/27/04 04:10 PM)

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InvisibleMovingTarget

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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: Gomp]
    #3285350 - 10/27/04 04:13 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

of cause illusion is a man made word, see past that if you can and use the meaning that we know applies to the word,  stop trying to confuse everyone!

or maybe its just me lol, a can never understand you :smile:


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: MovingTarget]
    #3285383 - 10/27/04 04:22 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

""the meaning that we know applies to the word""

i don't know the meaning, i know there are meanings to all words and we apply the individually? those "consept" seem upside down to me?


""or maybe its just me lol, a can never understand you ""


no, joine the club :P
only place i found response not about me beeing un -understandable is this forum, infact this is the first time i have noticed :wink:  :thumbup:

""stop trying to confuse everyone""
how can you ever do, before you stop trying to do, and do instead?


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Disclaimer!?

Edited by Gomp (10/27/04 04:22 PM)

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InvisibleMovingTarget

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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: Gomp]
    #3285443 - 10/27/04 04:34 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

understood up to that last sentence :smile:

the concepts seem upside down to you? how do you mean?


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: MovingTarget]
    #3285466 - 10/27/04 04:37 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I assure you he's not trying to confuse everyone... he just doesn't speak english very fluently..

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OfflineGomp
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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3285557 - 10/27/04 05:01 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

""the concepts seem upside down to you? how do you mean? ""

exactly.. i did not mean anything in spesific it up to you to deside?

I have no desire to neither prove nor disprove my views and philosophies. It doesn?t matter as you may be think you understand the words I have just said to you but, what you may fail to realize is, what you may have thought I said is not what I actually may have meant by saying what I said, when I said it? im just confused atm bear whit me i feel im changing alsow atwm :wink:


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Offlinelovelight
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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: Gomp]
    #3285596 - 10/27/04 05:12 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

you make me think in new ways  :thumbup:

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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: Gomp]
    #3285882 - 10/27/04 05:59 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

haha.. you sound like you're trying to say what it says in my signature.... :P

Edit: To be more specific, this part: "Due to the limitations of the English language, the words I use may or may not mean to me what you interpret them to mean."

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OfflineGomp
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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3285911 - 10/27/04 06:03 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

haha, and if you read my sign
and compare taht to the "trying to say" you shure know what im doing dont you? haha not meant as if you were, i asked :P


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: Gomp]
    #3285926 - 10/27/04 06:05 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Heh.. no, I'm still pretty confused by what you say most of the time..  :wink:

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OfflineGomp
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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3285965 - 10/27/04 06:13 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

""I'm still pretty confused by what you say most of the time..""

hehe me to, I say alot of uncomprehensable shit, but i put it out ther still, some might get it even if i did not :P i said stuff bakfirirng years after :P hehe it is fun indeed i kinda feel dead! :P


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: Gomp]
    #3286121 - 10/27/04 06:41 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

gomp is a great addition to S and P but you got to realize where he fits in. If you try to make 'sense' of him, youll get pissed off and confused. the key is to just let his nonsensical speach saturate the board, for purposes of hand relief


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Everything I post is fiction.

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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3286141 - 10/27/04 06:45 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

"you got to realize where he fits in"

hehe thats what im thinking "where DO i fit in?"
..


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3286195 - 10/27/04 06:53 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I concur. heh.

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InvisibleMovingTarget

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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: Gomp]
    #3286199 - 10/27/04 06:54 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

well ive returned from LALA land

And am beginning to understand what I try to type....

Thoughts about death eluded me :laugh:


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: MovingTarget]
    #3286229 - 10/27/04 06:58 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MovingTarget said:
Thoughts about death eluded me :laugh:




What a shame.. you would have learned something from it...

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InvisibleNariusFractal
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Re: Psychedelics and death. [Re: Gomp]
    #3287353 - 10/27/04 10:19 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Gomp said:
"you got to realize where he fits in"

hehe thats what im thinking "where DO i fit in?"
..




in the role of Gomp


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You are the microcosm of the macrocosm.

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