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Offlineaural
Hola Amigos!
Registered: 05/04/00
Posts: 511
Loc: The Desert In The Spring
Last seen: 17 years, 8 months
Re: How to yield 35+ Dry Grams from 2 cakes [Re: Anonymous]
    #16987 - 05/18/00 07:53 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Pernoid-
The reason that the "1000 year-old Armillaria" is not "degenerate" is because it IS 1000 years old.It is not 1000's of successive generations,but one very old organism.(I think)
BTW-this has been a very interesting thread,and I compliment y'all for the abilty to conduct it politely (I'll conveniently ignore H3's allegation for now ;-} )


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OfflineDinoMyc
Ipsa scientiapotestas est
Registered: 11/14/99
Posts: 1,080
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Re: How to yield 35+ Dry Grams from 2 cakes [Re: Anonymous] * 1
    #16988 - 05/18/00 08:29 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

I have been quiet untill now.. and i dont want to incite anyone, but there are biomasses of mycelia which are extremely old.. yes strains can degenerate, through spore propagation, and yes mycelium can weaken through excessive expantion, but that isnt the end all..
staments states that the limit to expantion is one agar plate to 1000 jars (and these arnt the little half pinters many here use).. that is FAR beyond what the origional post was talking about.. far beyond what most of us will ever do..
anyway, i dont want to get into an agruement, camel is full of knowledge, but i think he simply misinterpreted what the poster was trying to say..
regardless..


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If I made affront, I apologize.
If I made affirmation, I apologize.
I merely came to listen, came to say.


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Offlinecamel
old hand

Registered: 04/03/99
Posts: 416
Last seen: 7 months, 5 days
Re: How to yield 35+ Dry Grams from 2 cakes [Re: Anonymous]
    #16989 - 05/18/00 11:53 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Hip: What did your post say? Are you sure it got posted up? Me nor link deleted it, so it must be on your end. Regardless... What proof do you want? I fingerpointed pages in TMC, and discussed psilocybin/cin analysis of flushes. Anyway...

Dino: One thing to realize with wild mycelial networks is that each year after a fairy ring (I'm using this example as a 600+ acre fairy ring exists in Green Bay county in my state) grows outwards expanding the radius of the ring, that mushrooms form in the ring and drop their spores thus generating hundreds of more strains and keeping the diversity constant. This doesnt happen in indoor cultivation (new strains added from spores of previous fruitings). That is why those networks work so well. However, my main argument lied in the fact that so little spawn could produce so much end product. It just isn't physically possible.

peace
camel



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Don't do drugs.


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Anonymous

Re: How to yield 35+ Dry Grams from 2 cakes [Re: Anonymous]
    #16990 - 05/18/00 11:58 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Food for thought! Thanx for the info guys.

------------------
Trying to rationalize with an irrational person, is in itself irrational!



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InvisibleHippie3
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Registered: 11/07/99
Posts: 3,090
Loc: mycotopia.net
Re: How to yield 35+ Dry Grams from 2 cakes [Re: Anonymous]
    #16991 - 05/19/00 08:10 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

how strange.
i saw it posted but it vanished.
my question concerned your figures from the lab analysis, could you post them ?

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Anonymous

Re: How to yield 35+ Dry Grams from 2 cakes [Re: Anonymous]
    #16992 - 05/19/00 02:22 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

So if the mushrooms grow, and the spores fall off to generate new mushrooms that then grow and the spores fall off those to grow more mushrooms, then, by camels statement, wouldn't the potency degenerate after a couple of generations?
-TETRA


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Offlinecamel
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Registered: 04/03/99
Posts: 416
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Re: How to yield 35+ Dry Grams from 2 cakes [Re: Anonymous]
    #16993 - 05/19/00 04:59 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Tetra: Not at all. Through spores come thousands of new strains keeping the entire culture very diverse and not leading to degeneration.

Hip: Let me look to see if I still have a copy of the analysis of the fungi. If not I'll get a photocopy of the original sent from the lab that participated in the analysis.

peace
camel



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Don't do drugs.


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Anonymous

Re: How to yield 35+ Dry Grams from 2 cakes [Re: Anonymous]
    #16994 - 05/19/00 11:52 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

What I think has been overlooked here is the original observation of this post.... Expansion of mycellium was not the purpose... Rehydration of the same mycellium was... And yes the potency would remain similar in as many flushes as you can squeeze out of the single cake, UNTIL the cake runs out of nutrients, at which time it will stop producing fruitbodies, not psilocybin..

Just thought I'd get this thread back on track.

ThE JafF



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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: How to yield 35+ Dry Grams from 2 cakes [Re: camel]
    #326985 - 05/27/01 02:04 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

never posted those figures either.
i still think it was bullshit.

http://mycotopia.yage.net


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InvisibleBrownPastures
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Registered: 03/16/01
Posts: 968
Loc: here
Re: How to yield 35+ Dry Grams from 2 cakes [Re: camel]
    #327077 - 05/27/01 05:02 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

WhAA?? This thread went from rehydrating mycelium to hair growth! :laugh:... anyway... all that stuff about weakening mycelium and loss of potency - poppycok! Degeneration occurs when successive innoculations are made from fruits grown of an "ORIGINAL" culture... all the spores we use now are from "original" culutres which were fruited - spores were taken- then were fruited again, and again and again and again- does everyone think that these things just grow inside NATURALY?!!? these spores have been growing indoors for YEARS ... most of these strains are domesticated and are a result of indoor cultivation . This means alot of the cubie strains that you can get your hands on are no where near the potency that they used to be at... the only way that someone can actualy control this themselves is to make a "neo-original" culture from the first fruits that they get from a spore-vendor bought strain. This is the only way of controlling degeneration of potency. Unless you are growing in massive quantities and selecting cultures for their specific genetic quirks (which happens when doing what i have described before). A great example of this would be PF's albinos. As for the potency, potency in mushrooms can be affected 2 ways ... maybe 3... the 1st (and hardest) would be to try and cultivate a genetic defect in the culture you might have now by mass producing/inocculating it .. the 2nd is substrate... and you can find plenty of threads about this in the ADVANCED forum where every couple of months Tryptamine comes up in the conversation. .. the 3rd and most easiest way is dung... crap... poop ... put it however you want it ... this stuff makes our poor brown rice lovers smile grin and grow like we've never seeen... and yes it is possible to innoculate your dung from some old ass mycelium... you just have to be patient .. i know monkeys who dont use agar and have been using the same mycelium for about 3 years now! ... anyway .. just though i'd add something on this rather interesting thread.. peace

"like a Japanese Cowboy or a blind man on skates"Ween
"you must make sure that the lady's pure for the Funky Cold Medina"Tone Loc


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Offlinegratefulredhead
member

Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 488
Loc: Off the map....
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
Re: How to yield 35+ Dry Grams from 2 cakes [Re: BrownPastures]
    #327570 - 05/28/01 03:18 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

rock on, brown pastures!!

still curious about that 3rd flush tek with the black paper...



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Offlinedioze1
Satans minion inthe war onlaughter
Registered: 11/24/00
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Re: How to yield 35+ Dry Grams from 2 cakes [Re: Anonymous]
    #327678 - 05/28/01 08:41 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

I find it very odd that no one has mentioned the size of the cakes in question nor has the content of the cakes been revealed--both are the most important pieces of info to back your claims.
Dioze1



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InvisibleBrownPastures
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Registered: 03/16/01
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Loc: here
Re: How to yield 35+ Dry Grams from 2 cakes [Re: dioze1]
    #327878 - 05/28/01 03:51 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

I wish Mycofile or someone was still here and could answer the pepper tek thing... (myth - but dont believe me if you dont want to :laugh:) ... ok now ... you said you wanted some figures... well i dont know about the cakes in question - but here's a good way to make a cake stretch (if you patient enough).....

Cake Mix ( 1 pt wide mouth jars)
1part pearled barley
2part Whole Brown Rice
1part verm
(remember whole grains need to be steeped/cooked)

1.Sterilize to your liking (monkeys around here are too cheap for PC)

2.After your cakes are colonized... you can flush them once if you cant wait for  some fruits ...

3.Now cut each of your cakes into 4-6 slices

4.Innoculate 2lb dung to each slice....wait for it to colonize

5.Then use your colonized dung to colonize some more dung or some straw or some straw/worm poo....

6.This can be done over and over and over again... untill you have your desired ammount of substrate...

7.Once you have your desired ammount , fruit and enjoy!

The obvious advantage of this is your dealing with spawn/substrate rather than spores ... My monkeys have experienced significantly less contams when doing this... also the colonization of 1lb of a given substrate is qucker with mycelial transfer than colonizing 1lb with spores.... there are other advantages(and dis-advantages too :wink:) to this method but i'll let you imagine that .....

peace



"like a Japanese Cowboy or a blind man on skates"Ween
"you must make sure that the lady's pure for the Funky Cold Medina"Tone Loc

Edited by BrownPastures on 05/28/01 03:56 PM.



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