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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
huge cache of explosives not secured by US
    #3275083 - 10/25/04 01:57 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

New York Times

Quote:



A 1996 photograph of a bunker where high-density explosives were stored at Al Qaqaa, an Iraqi military facility south of Baghdad.


TRACKING THE WEAPONS
Huge Cache of Explosives Vanished From Site in Iraq
By JAMES GLANZ, WILLIAM J. BROAD and DAVID E. SANGER

Published: October 25, 2004


his article was reported and written by James Glanz, William J. Broad and David E. Sanger.

BAGHDAD, Iraq, Oct. 24 - The Iraqi interim government has warned the United States and international nuclear inspectors that nearly 380 tons of powerful conventional explosives - used to demolish buildings, make missile warheads and detonate nuclear weapons - are missing from one of Iraq's most sensitive former military installations.

The huge facility, called Al Qaqaa, was supposed to be under American military control but is now a no man's land, still picked over by looters as recently as Sunday. United Nations weapons inspectors had monitored the explosives for many years, but White House and Pentagon officials acknowledge that the explosives vanished sometime after the American-led invasion last year.

The White House said President Bush's national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice, was informed within the past month that the explosives were missing. It is unclear whether President Bush was informed. American officials have never publicly announced the disappearance, but beginning last week they answered questions about it posed by The New York Times and the CBS News program "60 Minutes."

Administration officials said Sunday that the Iraq Survey Group, the C.I.A. task force that searched for unconventional weapons, has been ordered to investigate the disappearance of the explosives.

American weapons experts say their immediate concern is that the explosives could be used in major bombing attacks against American or Iraqi forces: the explosives, mainly HMX and RDX, could produce bombs strong enough to shatter airplanes or tear apart buildings.

The bomb that brought down Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, in 1988 used less than a pound of the same type of material, and larger amounts were apparently used in the bombing of a housing complex in November 2003 in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, and the blasts in a Moscow apartment complex in September 1999 that killed nearly 300 people.





see link for the full article.


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OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
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Re: huge cache of explosives not secured by US [Re: Vvellum]
    #3275306 - 10/25/04 03:00 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Did this happen over a year ago?


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OfflineLearyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Re: huge cache of explosives not secured by US [Re: Vvellum]
    #3275399 - 10/25/04 03:23 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

The oil wells are still secure, though, right?





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Mp3 of the month: The Loose Enz - The Black Door



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InvisibleXlea321
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Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: huge cache of explosives not secured by US [Re: Learyfan]
    #3275486 - 10/25/04 03:50 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Interesting peek into their real mindset. They must have been so confident there were no weapons anywhere in Iraq that they never thought about securing anything except the oilfields.


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InvisibleJonnyOnTheSpot
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Re: huge cache of explosives not secured by US [Re: Xlea321]
    #3275799 - 10/25/04 05:14 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

it was probably secured by the CIA and sold on the black market to fund black ops missions.




......... :shiftyeyes:......stranger things have happened...


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Anonymous

Re: huge cache of explosives not secured by US [Re: JonnyOnTheSpot]
    #3275807 - 10/25/04 05:17 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

actually i have it.


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InvisibleGabbaDj
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Re: huge cache of explosives not secured by US [Re: JonnyOnTheSpot]
    #3275832 - 10/25/04 05:21 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

JonnyOnTheSpot said:
it was probably secured by the CIA and sold on the black market to fund black ops missions.




......... :shiftyeyes:......stranger things have happened...




That might just be the sad truth...  :crazy:


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: huge cache of explosives not secured by US [Re: Vvellum]
    #3276041 - 10/25/04 06:26 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

oops


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: huge cache of explosives not secured by US [Re: Vvellum]
    #3276083 - 10/25/04 06:39 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

democracy marches on!


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: huge cache of explosives not secured by US [Re: afoaf]
    #3276359 - 10/25/04 07:51 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Those of you who actually read the whole article please raise your hand. That's what I thought.
First line of page 2,"the stockpile disappeared sometime after April 2003 because of "theft and looting... due to a lack of security." This from an unnamed senior official in the Ministry of Science and Technology. Funky source here if you ask me. If he's a senior official now, how would he know about the conditions then; and if he was a senior official then, who can believe him. He remains anonymous. In the next paragraph the Times says that the Minister himself confirms the facts but then only quotes him as saying, "Yes they are missing" and "We don't know what happened." That is not exactly a confirmation of the "facts" from the anonymous minister's mouth.

They then say the site was listed as a medium priority by the CIA, on a list of MORE THAN 500 SITES. Well, when you consider that Iraq had 600,000 tons of munitions, a site with 350 is worth watching but not a top priority.

Further on, "weapons inspectors determined that Iraq had purchased the explosives from France, China, and Yugoslavia."....."none of the explosives were destroyed ....because Iraq argued that it should be allowed to keep them for eventual use in mining and civilian construction." The inspectors went along with this. Doesn't exactly sound like the nuke triggers the earlier part of the article asserts. They themselves used it to blow up a Bio weapons plant.

"The stockpile went unmonitored from late 1998... until late 2002." At that time "35 tons of HMX were missing"

And now comes the strangest thing in this article of all. "He (ElBaradei)ordered his weapons inspectors to conduct an inventory, and publicly reported their findings to the Security Council on Jan 9, 2003." They DO NOT REPORT THE FINDINGS. Is this a newspaper or what? What were these publicly reported findings? Why do they quote anonymous sources and not tell us what ElBaradei's report said?

The article goes on but I think you get my drift here. Shoddy reporting of an hysterical non-issue, and old story at that, just before an election. Could these fuckers be more obvious??? Fuck 'em, they're gonna lose anyway.


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Registered: 11/02/03
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Re: huge cache of explosives not secured by US [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3276475 - 10/25/04 08:21 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Zappaisgod could be on to something. I am irritated that the US military apparently hasn't figure that if you're going to fight a war, you want to win it. Do they take their jobs seriously at all?


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1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: huge cache of explosives not secured by US [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3276628 - 10/25/04 09:09 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

They then say the site was listed as a medium priority by the CIA, on a list of MORE THAN 500 SITES. Well, when you consider that Iraq had 600,000 tons of munitions, a site with 350 is worth watching but not a top priority.




...and how many of those tons were HMX/RDX munitions - or in other words, highly portable, easily distributed, easily consealed as well as incredibly powerful? Shells are one thing - these explosives are another. These are the weapons the terrorists want and could utiltize quite effectively, no? Keep in mind that 1lb of this type of explosive took down Flight 103 - 380 tons is 760,000 possible terrorist attacks.

Quote:

Shoddy reporting of an hysterical non-issue, and old story at that, just before an election.




So, are you saying the 380 tons of these explosives gone missing is a "non-issue"? I'm sure the families of the future victims of these explosives will not agree.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: huge cache of explosives not secured by US [Re: Vvellum]
    #3276729 - 10/25/04 09:37 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

One part of the non-issue I was referring to was the hysterical reportage that they were nuclear triggers. They are also "in common use by militaries throughout the world." The CIA decided that it was a MEDIUM priority. When it was first inspected by the Army "American forces went through the bunkers but found no materials bearing the I.A.E.A. seal". Further, "I.A.E.A. experts say they assume that just before the invasion the Iraqis followed their standard practice of moving crucial explosives out of buildings." Once again, I have to point out that the Iraqis were allowed to keep these explosives by the I.A.E.A.

They could very well have disappeared before we invaded, in which case we couldn't possibly be blamed for not securing an empty facility. Who cares if the local dopes loot it for pipes and wires?

It's a non-story because they can't place the explosives there when we invaded and in fact quote experts as saying that they probably weren't (the "following usual practices" part). All they have is an anonymous official, they then cite the minister on record as confirming the anonymous official when he doesn't do that at all, and they do not provide ElBaradei's report.

And this story is at least 18 months old

Shoddy work, hysterical non-issue, old news, just before an election. Can you say Dan Rather forged these documents


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: huge cache of explosives not secured by US [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3277027 - 10/25/04 10:38 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

This isn't old news. It was printed today. They're just now realizing what happened.






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Mp3 of the month: The Loose Enz - The Black Door



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OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
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Re: huge cache of explosives not secured by US [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3277250 - 10/25/04 11:29 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I agree about the timing of this article Zappa. This happened last year, but it is important today because they don't have anything better to jam Bush with.


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InvisibleKrishna
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Re: huge cache of explosives not secured by US [Re: JesusChrist]
    #3277446 - 10/26/04 12:31 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

as i recall from reports on the BBC world this morning, it is just as of today that Iraqi intelligence has reported these munitions missing, and that the IAEA has made remarks that they could be used in the preliminary explosion leading up to a nuclear blast... unless the BBC is cycling old news and interviews, I think it is fairly recent...


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OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
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Re: huge cache of explosives not secured by US [Re: Krishna]
    #3277770 - 10/26/04 02:01 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

The news might report it today, but when did this theft happen? Over a year ago? Please. You people are sheep. Spoon fed by the man.


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OfflineLearyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Re: huge cache of explosives not secured by US [Re: JesusChrist]
    #3277829 - 10/26/04 02:34 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

JesusChrist said:
You people are sheep. Spoon fed by the man.




You gotta be kidding me.






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Mp3 of the month: The Loose Enz - The Black Door



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OfflineJesusChrist
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Re: huge cache of explosives not secured by US [Re: Learyfan]
    #3277839 - 10/26/04 02:39 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

baahhhh!


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: huge cache of explosives not secured by US [Re: Learyfan]
    #3278363 - 10/26/04 07:09 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
This isn't old news. It was printed today. They're just now realizing what happened.




Go to http://www.drudgereport.com/nbcw.htm
NBC News reports that the stuff was missing April 10 2003 when the troops first arrived. How do they know? They had a crew with the troops when they got there. Old story, non story, distorted story, dishonest story, Michael Moore story, Dan Rather story.

Really, if you read the whole Times article with a questioning eye you have to notice how thin and self-contradictory it was. They have become so disgracefully partisan in their NEWS REPORTAGE they should be sued for fraudulently calling themselves a newspaper. They can say whatever they want on their Op-Ed pages but they should not be making up news

You all should examine the stories you want to be true even closer than the ones you don't, and don't bother telling me that the Kerry goons didn't see this as good news.


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