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Offlinehills
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Registered: 10/24/04
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america does not understand desire
    #3271295 - 10/24/04 02:14 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

desire is caused by limitation
legalize pot..
lower drinking age to 18..
our govt wants too much hence the reason why so much is limited..
its all just a system of desire and we're far from mastering it
i  d o n t g e t i t. our chinese ancestors were way smarter than we will EVER be.  america may be the most powerful, but also the most corrupt. (HELLO??!?!!?) :rolleyes:


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I am the key to the lock in your house
That keeps your toys in the basement
And if you get too far inside
You'll only see my reflection


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OfflineGomp
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Re: america does not understand desire [Re: hills]
    #3271422 - 10/24/04 02:56 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

hello


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OfflineGinseng1
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Re: america does not understand desire [Re: Gomp]
    #3271856 - 10/24/04 04:58 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Sparta - America, same shit


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Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: america does not understand desire [Re: hills]
    #3271898 - 10/24/04 05:10 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

welcome and I think your being a bit harsh on america. I feel pretty freaking free to follow and obtain my hearts desires here. You can trip out without drugs. I don't use them and I trip out far.

Just take everything, put it out suspended in front of you and LET GO.
Don't be afraid to fall or fly and fall.

We already fell everyone and yes, we didn't like it. But are we to ground our asses from her forever on because of that?

Search to understand the orginal fall for yourself and reply it over and over again until you appreciate and enjoy it. Soon, you won't be afraid to fly and you won't need drugs to help you let go and lift off either.

Some times in life, when you can't work with a system, you have to get creative and work around it with your own.

You can be in this world and even be a product of it and still not be of it. There is a whole nother song and dance going on in between the beats. Feel for it.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: america does not understand desire [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3272152 - 10/24/04 06:25 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

"Sparta - America, same shit"

Neither were the people allowed any pampering of their appetites. The men and boys all ate at a common table; the women and girls usually at another in another building. The food supplied was plain but wholesome, consisting chiefly of a noted black broth called the Spartan broth. Only very rarely was even the father of a family allowed to dine or sleep in his own home. His real dwelling was with his countrymen. Even among these, conversation was not encouraged. Each Spartan studied to speak only when he must, and then to compress just as much of meaning and point as possible into the fewest words. Thus the Spartan race became noted for their abruptness and their pithy sayings. Phrases in their style, since the name of the country of Sparta was Laconia, are still called "laconic" speeches.
In the community life which men thus shared together, they devoted themselves to athletic sports. Every boy was regularly trained to take part in these; and it is even said that sickly babies were deliberately put to death, lest they grow up into weakly men and women and thus pull down the physical average of the race.
The Spartans did little work except this constant training for athletics and for war. There dwelt among them many of the Greeks of older race, and these tilled the farms and shared the produce with their Dorian rulers.
The youth were also trained in self-repression. They were encouraged to steal, since the practice of thieving developed keenness, quickness, caution, and other warlike qualities. But if caught in theft they were severely punished, not for the deed, but for the blundering which had left them open to detection. Thus we have the well-known story of the Spartan lad who, having stolen a fox, concealed it beneath his cloak; and when it began to bite and tear at his body, he endured the torture without a sign until it killed him, rather than betray himself by any move or outcry.
Naturally these Spartans became celebrated as warriors. The later Athenians used to say in sarcasm that of course the Spartans fought well, because any man would sooner be slain than driven back to endure the grim and narrow life in Sparta. A Spartan mother would give her son his shield as he went forth to battle, saying in laconic fashion, "Return with it or upon it." That is, he was not to throw away his shield in order to flee from a foe. He must keep moving forward and so preserve his shield. If he was slain his comrades carried him home upon that shield as proof that he had died fighting."

The Spartans were some tough bastards...that is a hell of an ideal to live up to.

I found this and added as an edit in fine counterpoint (or not) to the above:

"The manners of Spartan youth were universally admired in the ancient world and comparisons were often drawn to the rude, impudent youth of other cities. One anecdote describes an old man looking for a seat at the Olympic games. As he stumbled about from one section to the other, the spectators laughed him at. But when he came to the Spartan section, all the Spartans stood to offer him their places - and there was universal applause. The moral drawn by the commentator was: you see, all Greeks know how we ought to behave, but only the Spartans act on it."


Edited by Huehuecoyotl (10/24/04 10:33 PM)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: america does not understand desire [Re: hills]
    #3272467 - 10/24/04 08:03 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

The year I left for college, the NJ legislature reduced the drinking age from 21 to 18. The same year, my former high school allowed seniors to leave campus for lunch. Result: high school kids got drunk at the local pub, and then drove drunk back to school. Bad idea. So, they returned the drinking age to 21. Better idea. When I was 18 and drunk, I just became stupid, but stupid plus motor vehicals usually means tragedy. You must be 18 (or less) yourself.

I also used cannabis for a dozen years beginning at age 15. Had I not done so, and had I taken school more seriously, I might have entered a much better college, which in turn would've enriched my life more than the college experience that I had, and sent me on to better graduate schools to hobnob with profound thinkers. I remember only one great mind from college (Dr. Bob Brier who makes mummies and opens crypts on TLC), and only two from both graduate schools. Hell, I might have gotten into Princeton had I taken school more seriously, and eventually gotten to work with Dr. Elaine Pagels who wrote 'The Gnostic Gospels' and other way cool scholarly books (which are rather important to me). So, I am in favor of low penalties (like fines) for small amounts of cannabis products, but I am not in favor of legalization. It makes one stupid and I am all about getting and staying smart at this time of my life. If you live long enough, this might become one of your own values.

You haven't seen corruption til you've visited a place like Nigeria (for example) or any other third world country. You have no idea. Count your blessings and give thanks to GOD.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: america does not understand desire [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #3272882 - 10/24/04 09:49 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Rock and roll!!! America rocks. Many people don't know how good they got it. Even to live in poverty here (an experience I had for a few years a good while back) is a vacation in Hawaii compared to poverty in most countries.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: america does not understand desire [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3273005 - 10/24/04 10:20 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

America! Fuck yeah! Commin to save the muthafuckin' day yeah!


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1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: america does not understand desire [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #3280940 - 10/26/04 08:50 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

The year I left for college, the NJ legislature reduced the drinking age from 21 to 18. The same year, my former high school allowed seniors to leave campus for lunch. Result: high school kids got drunk at the local pub, and then drove drunk back to school. Bad idea. So, they returned the drinking age to 21. Better idea. When I was 18 and drunk, I just became stupid, but stupid plus motor vehicals usually means tragedy. You must be 18 (or less) yourself.



The responsibility to drink and possibly hurt yourself is one thing, but the responsibility for the lives of others is an entirely different thing.
I rather like the way driving and drinking are handled here (Belgium), as I see more sense in learning to deal with alcohol before you learn how to drive rather than the other way around.
Driving is a bigger responsibility than drinking, because you're personally responsible for every single life in the car. Hence, it makes more sense to me to leave the driving up to the adults (as arbitrary as the age limit of 18 might be) and to allow drinking at age 16, so you have time to get used to the drug and appreciate its utter worthlesness by the time you'll be driving.

Quote:

I also used cannabis for a dozen years beginning at age 15. Had I not done so, and had I taken school more seriously, I might have entered a much better college, which in turn would've enriched my life more than the college experience that I had, and sent me on to better graduate schools to hobnob with profound thinkers. I remember only one great mind from college (Dr. Bob Brier who makes mummies and opens crypts on TLC), and only two from both graduate schools. Hell, I might have gotten into Princeton had I taken school more seriously, and eventually gotten to work with Dr. Elaine Pagels who wrote 'The Gnostic Gospels' and other way cool scholarly books (which are rather important to me). So, I am in favor of low penalties (like fines) for small amounts of cannabis products, but I am not in favor of legalization. It makes one stupid and I am all about getting and staying smart at this time of my life. If you live long enough, this might become one of your own values.



Might it not be an oversimplification to blame it all on cannabis? There are many other distractions from school besides drugs, and if at that time of your life you sought an excuse not to do any school work, those other options could have fit the bill just perfectly.

On the original topic: if the U.S. government doesn't understand desire, then why aren't fastfood chains, guns, sex shops and travel agencies illegal?


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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OfflineFrog
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Re: america does not understand desire [Re: Alan Stone]
    #3281203 - 10/26/04 09:36 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I kind of agree with Markos.

Maybe there are people who can use drugs and live a successful life, but I see too many people who can't handle drugs + life. Sure, go ahead and legalize it, but that doesn't mean that drugs are a good idea.

I am not saying I am knocking anyone who uses drugs. If you can use drugs without them interfering with your ability to have a successful life, go for it. I just haven't seen, yet, evidence of this possibility yet.

And long live America, for better or for worse. I like living here. Just about any where else pales in comparison.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineNorthernsoul
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Re: america does not understand desire [Re: hills]
    #3282080 - 10/27/04 12:30 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Society is based on "control." But this "control" is meerly a conceptual invention braught upon by our desire to make the world a "better" place.
3000 years of this modern society later, literaly thousands of years just trying to "control" , and I wonder if we as a human race, let alone someone worrying about the legal drinking age, will survive.

Stop trying to control, and try seeing.


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InvisibleDirtMcgirt
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Registered: 10/20/04
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Re: america does not understand desire [Re: Northernsoul]
    #3282394 - 10/27/04 01:51 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I totally agree with Alan Stone. For anybody to blame cannibus or any other drug as the sole reason they didn't accomplish something is projecting faults on something else. Sure substances cause problems from tobacco to crack but to blame a plant/substance for your shortcomings of the past isn't constructive. You can make up for lost time now but your just making excuses. I suscribe to the fact that people are responsible for themselves and a successful life is completely relative to the individual. I smoked glass for a long time and in hindsight I wish i had spent that time/money on more productive things but with he absence of glass I probably would have wasted that productive opportunity in other ways. At that time i didn't feel I was at all unsuccessful at anything. Its a choice. I smoked the shit, the shit didn't smoke me. I would still lobby for legalization across the board and education of substances instead of vilification...thats how people blame objects for themselves


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"And we, inhabitants of the great coral of the Cosmos, believe the atom (which still we cannot see) to be full matter, whereas, it too, like everything else, is but an embroidery of voids in the Void, and we give the name of being, dense and even eternal, to that dance of inconsistencies, that infinite extension that is identified with absolute Nothingness and that spins from its own non-being the illusion of everything."


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: america does not understand desire [Re: DirtMcgirt]
    #3283494 - 10/27/04 11:15 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

DirtMcgirt said:
I would still lobby for legalization across the board and education of substances instead of vilification




Exactly. :wink:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinedeff
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Re: america does not understand desire [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3284651 - 10/27/04 04:06 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I wish everyone would just laugh at themselves

and then party

and then die on schedule

for the next party crew

:smile:


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: america does not understand desire [Re: deff]
    #3284940 - 10/27/04 05:03 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

man Deff your the shit. Im pretty sure if i met you in person wed be good friends.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: america does not understand desire [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3284948 - 10/27/04 05:05 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

:laugh: probably

I'm only a few provinces away...


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Offlinezahudulallah
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Re: america does not understand desire [Re: deff]
    #3285572 - 10/27/04 07:06 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I don't think weed should be legalized either. Where I live the drinking age is 18, I believe it should be raised to 21 as well... all and all, I am for the "war on drugs"...

As for the sacred psychedelic, the masses cant handle it. If one gets caught with it by the authorities, they are taking one for the team.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: america does not understand desire [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3285585 - 10/27/04 07:08 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Umm... ok :smile:

Care to elaborate on your justifications for this 'war'?


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Offlinezahudulallah
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Re: america does not understand desire [Re: deff]
    #3285715 - 10/27/04 07:31 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I have seen first hand the evil that hedonistic drugs can do to a person. The illegalization of drugs is designed to protect the masses. I am aware that some people can handle drug use recreationally without having it interfere with their lives - good for them, but as long as there are people who cannot handle it as they do, they must be protected by the government.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: america does not understand desire [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3285733 - 10/27/04 07:34 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Protection should never include persecution.

Protection in the case of drugs would involve proper education, and this isn't like a drug user cliche. People are going to use drugs even if they are illegal. The "evil" you saw from their use probably occured while they were illegal, and thus this did nothing to stop it. Really, a hammer to the side of my head could be considered "evil", but rather than hunt down hammer owners, it is common sense to use them for nails.

We should shift focus from fear and prosecution to compassion and education.



How does the war on drugs protect anyone?


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