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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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some cosmic bullshit about bullshit...
    #3271115 - 10/24/04 01:02 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

we begin with a quote from PAL ..

Quote:

to be honest i think that a good 99%+ of people are truely ignorant, left and right lots try and see teh truth and do much research. but with so many lies, coverups and shit how can anyone know the facts? fbi dude comes out and tells "the truth" about iraqi
intelegence...how do we know hes not lieing? we say it on teh news, in journals newspapers. doesnt make it true, jsut accepted. im pretty far on the left but i think its far more 2 sided than many of us are willing to admit.

there is so much bias in this planet i think it would be extremely difficult to have anyone tell what they believe to be 100% truth without any tainting, slanting, implying and whatnot. sad truth but its certainly the way its seems.




so why is there so much bullshit??...oddly enough..there is actually an honest answer to that question...in mathematics..the "truth" only exists when something is "decidable"...and mathematicians have shown (link) that there are only "countably many" decidables..but there are "uncountably many" undecidables (ie cases which can neither be proven nor disproven)...what this means is that while both sets are infinite..the ratio of the size of the former to that of the latter is zero...what the PAL poster is observing directly follows...

and there is an even more amusing flip-side ..that being that it has also been proven impossible to prove that mathematics will not contradict itself at some point in the unforseeable future..in which case all of the above is just bullshit...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: some cosmic bullshit about bullshit... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #3271218 - 10/24/04 01:43 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I just wanted to make a quick comment about the mathamatics contradicting itself someday.

Math will be and serve the same purpose it always has. I have no doubt, a new math will emerge that will account for the unaccountables. I think this math will stem from PSI Calculous as it deals with multi dimensional math. I think that math will deal with odd multipliers and divisions of densities, wave pulse lengths, and geometrics combined.

The two maths will work together, the new math will just be additions to what we can do with the old math.

Any time you get into multi D's contradictions absolutely occur. I did a post on it a while back.

Tying this in the above, bullshit exists in large part because we are linear thinkers in general reared in linear math. Whatever falls out of linear thinking or math accountability is deemed "bullshit".

As more people open up to and become accustomed to multi D percpetion, they will grow comfortable with the contradicitons. As PSI calculous evolves and moves it's way into the picture, because it will be able to support contridcitions to both be true, we will experience far less "right" "wrong" bullshit.

Information transfer and processing will speed up at exponential rates because of the acceptance supported by the new math as well and that is another thing people will not be comfortable with at first, the fear filled ones just need to die off already LOL- they put up to much resistance to change while teaching the old ways and jamm the gears of progress.

I watch some squirm here LOL. It is amusing. Interesting post topic. I know I know, intuition based caution is good and Discernment is VITAL, but move forward with the two we can without fear paralysis type stiflement and regression.

Just my personal thoughts on this.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: some cosmic bullshit about bullshit... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #3273231 - 10/24/04 11:25 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I don't know about math (please don't show me any numbers or my brain will shut down!), but what I have learned in practicing law is that the "truth" is pretty arbitrary. 

One side takes the facts and distorts them to fit his position, and the other side takes the exact same set of facts and either omits or adds to fit his version. 

It's all a bunch of bullshit, and the person who argues best and has his shit together best is the winner.

I am frequently full of shit, and I argue my shit better than anyone else, so I am the Queen of Dung.  :grin:


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: some cosmic bullshit about bullshit... [Re: Frog]
    #3273352 - 10/24/04 11:57 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

^ that follows directly from |decidable| / |undecidable| = 0...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Invisiblechodamunky
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Re: some cosmic bullshit about bullshit... [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3273403 - 10/25/04 12:09 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I have no doubt, a new math will emerge that will account for the unaccountables

How are you so sure? check this out:

"In the early 1900s, the world of mathematics was engaged in a search for its own foundation, the fundamental principles from which all mathematical truth could logically be deduced. In 1931, G?del provided a definitive, if unexpected, conclusion to the quest by proving that it was impossible. He was able to demonstrate that any formal system (such as mathematics) is inherently incomplete. This means, in essence, that there are truths that exist within a system that are not provable using the rules of that system. If the system is a set of mathematical axioms, then there are mathematical truths which are not provable (or ?decidable?) using those axioms. Such an unprovable truth is known as a G?del Sentence (G) and all formal systems have them (each particular system having its own unique G). Needless to say, this came as quite a shock to the mathematicians and philosophers of the day: mathematics, that bedrock of truth and certainty, was inherently flawed. No matter how diligently one worked to construct an all-encompassing mathematical framework, G?del could come along with G and say, ?Ah, very nice, but you still can?t prove this.?

I have no idea what you are talking about with your PSI calculus, but that system too would be inherently limited and flawed.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: some cosmic bullshit about bullshit... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #3273537 - 10/25/04 12:36 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
^ that follows directly from |decidable| / |undecidable| = 0...




Huh???

(Just teasing, but if you want to explain, it would be much appreciated.)


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineTodcasil
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Re: some cosmic bullshit about bullshit... [Re: Frog]
    #3273604 - 10/25/04 12:56 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

he was saying, what you said what exactly what he said!

only in math lingo


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.


~Casil



:cactus:


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: some cosmic bullshit about bullshit... [Re: chodamunky]
    #3273680 - 10/25/04 01:16 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

It simply says that you can not use the rules of the system that you wish to prove truths of. I agree with that based on my understanding.

The math I am talking about does not follow the rules of this system- it'll defy it hardely! It'll break every fuckin law of physics. LOL Once the new math is formulated, it will prove how THIS system works, but not the one that THAT math comes from.

Once we master one level, there will be another and another.

I have no doubt because I see stuff when I go into altered states, stuff I can't come close to putting into words. You can have all the doubt you wish too. Realise, your doubt will just put more space and time between you and your eventual realisation of whats beyond it. There is always something beyond the appearant and more to see and know. I don't see how doubt serves anyone, cept for to keep them cozy where they are and we are entitled to it.

I fall into doubt sometimes for comfort. Nothing wrong with it. Then I get restless with comfort and start pushing myself again.

here's an analogy to visualise.

See yourself in a bubble. The bubble is the world as you know it. See your ability to break that bubble open and watch the membrane of that bubble mesh with a bubble it was in. Now you are in a bigger bubble and your conscious awareness is expanded with the info in the new membrane.

Then you can break through that one and there is another bubble it was in and the membrane of that one holds more. Each membrane holds info for the bubble it was containing. I can't see how we will get ahead of it let alone even steven or there would be no room for growth and expansion along the lines of more self realisation to occur.

To break these membranes (aka veils) and expand consciousness, you have to push at them or put them under pressure or allow someone to pull at yours and break it. Thats another topic.

During times when you feel like you are mentally cracking, get giddy or feel nuts, you are making a break through. Fear feelings, anxiety, excitability or tension ussually precede a break through. They are ussually followed with a mild to intense euphoria and then a crashing of sorts as you mesh and integrate with the new bubbles membrane.

I can see into the next bubbles before I actually break through and mesh with the new membrance of consciousness. Those visions are like carot teasers.

I just realised how comfortable I am talking about this and how absolutely nuts I may be sounding to a reader right now. LOL I don't care. I wish more people talked about this stuff for me.

It is fun to find groups of people you can push and pull each other with.

I'm talking about pushing limitations of the mind. Everyone who pushed passed duality has gotten comfortable or thinks, its as far as we can go.

I just gave myself a lot to think about. Off to bed.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: some cosmic bullshit about bullshit... [Re: Frog]
    #3274764 - 10/25/04 11:37 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Frog said:
Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
^ that follows directly from |decidable| / |undecidable| = 0...




Huh???

(Just teasing, but if you want to explain, it would be much appreciated.)




that just means that the subset of cases where provability ("truth") exists is infinitessimally small compared the set of cases which are not provable..which is what your seeing in the court...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Invisiblechodamunky
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Re: some cosmic bullshit about bullshit... [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3276822 - 10/25/04 09:58 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

The math I am talking about does not follow the rules of this system- it'll defy it hardely! It'll break every fuckin law of physics

you can't have a mathematical model of a world that doesn't exist, math is a model to help understand the world around us. The type of math you are referring to can only come into being when only when 'every fucking law of physics' is actually broken by the universe itself.

I have no doubt because I see stuff when I go into altered states, stuff I can't come close to putting into words

how does that convince you, let alone others, that what you're saying is true?

Realise, your doubt will just put more space and time between you and your eventual realisation of whats beyond it. I don't see how doubt serves anyone, cept for to keep them cozy where they are and we are entitled to it.

doubt keeps your mind thinking alternatively, blind faith keeps you cozy.

I fall into doubt sometimes for comfort. Nothing wrong with it. Then I get restless with comfort and start pushing myself again.

huh? are you saying that when you are unsure about something, you are comforted by it? and then you push yourself to believe again and to feel uncomfortable...  I'm confused.. :frown:


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OfflineFrog
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Re: some cosmic bullshit about bullshit... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #3276932 - 10/25/04 10:17 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Are you saying that there is no truth? That it's all about arguing facts in the best light based on one's position, and that rarely do you find truth, which might be where both sides agree on the truth?


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineGomp
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Re: some cosmic bullshit about bullshit... [Re: Frog]
    #3276947 - 10/25/04 10:19 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

"agree on the truth"
is that possible really? :smile:


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: some cosmic bullshit about bullshit... [Re: Frog]
    #3277245 - 10/25/04 11:28 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Frog said:
Are you saying that there is no truth? That it's all about arguing facts in the best light based on one's position, and that rarely do you find truth, which might be where both sides agree on the truth?




well there is truth..because the set of decidables is still infinite..although not nearly as infinite as the set of undecidables..which is why the truth is hard to find...its not possible to "agree" on the truth..since in the decidable case..truth or falsity is determined strictly by mathematical logic.. whereas in the undecidable case..it doesnt exist...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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OfflineFrog
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Re: some cosmic bullshit about bullshit... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #3277657 - 10/26/04 01:27 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

You are making an excellent point.  What one might consider to be the truth is just really a fact or set of facts that are subject to interpretation.  One comes to the truth when all sees the same facts in the same light?  Interprets them in the same light, so to speak?

Is a court room just another place for philosophical discussion over whether something is true or not?  :grin:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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