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Offlinemurseh8r
freedumb

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 130
Loc: 12.3356 long./880.11 lat.
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
lets not forget the DRUG WAR
    #3270912 - 10/24/04 11:09 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

WE CANT FORGET THE ONGOING DRUG WAR.IRAQ ISN'T THE ONLY PLACE WHERE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS ARE BEING SPENT ON A POINTLESS WAR:
The Price Tag
Over the course of his eight years in office, Reagan spent $22.6 billion on his revived Drug War. Another major escalation was pushed through under George Bush, who spent $42.5 billion in a single term. Under Clinton, spending has continued to increase, with $16 billion for one year alone allocated in the 1998 fiscal budget. Those figures show federal spending only, not counting all unfunded mandates passed onto states.

Spending at other levels of government adds up to approximately the same as the federal budget, so in 1998 you can expect to see well over $30 billion spent on the Drug War.

In 1999, the federal Drug War budget alone is expected to rise again to $17 billion. Are we better off by wasting ever more money on the Drug War? Where will it end?

$$$ The average cost of incarcerating a federal inmate is $23,000 per year. (FAMM, Coalition for Federal Sentencing Reform, March, 1997.)

$$$ Almost 60% of federal inmates &emdash; 55,624 people! &emdash; are drug offenders. Half of these are first time, non-violent offenders. (Bureau of Prisons, 1997.)

$$$ To feed, clothe, house and guard these 55,624 prisoners costs taxpayers $3.5 million per day, or $1.27 billion annually.



And There's Lots More!
$$$ Public assistance or welfare for children of inmates who have lost a breadwinner,

$$$ Foster care for children who have lost their parents,

$$$ Unnecessary and inaccurate urine testing of employees, damaging both morale and job productivity,

$$$ Medical costs to treat people for diseases spread by sharing dirty needles due to bans on needle exchange programs,

$$$ Homes, property, cars, and savings forfeited from families of inmates,

$$$ Money, property stolen to support expensive illegal drug habits,

$$$ Money diverted from the open market to the underground market,

$$$ Tax dollars and untaxed incomes lost to the black market economy of drugs,

$$$ Tax dollars lost by giving tax-exempt status to Drug War propagandists such as: PRIDE, PDFA (Partnership for a Drug-Free America), Drug Watch International, DARE, etc.,

$$$ Other criminal justice system costs,

$$$ Hidden law enforcement budgets,

$$$ Paid informants,

$$$ Court costs,

$$$ Attorney fees,

$$$ Personal hardships


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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: lets not forget the DRUG WAR [Re: murseh8r]
    #3270951 - 10/24/04 11:32 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Libertarian Presidential Candidate Michael Badnarik's position on the War on Drugs:

In the 2000 campaign for president, George W. Bush said that the federal government should not interfere with the medical marijuana policies of the several states. Like so many other promises, he went back on his word and has closed down medical marijuana facilities permitted by state governments.

This is an outrage. The federal government has no constitutional authority to interfere with state drug policies. When the federal government outlawed alcohol, it required a constitutional amendment to do so. Nonetheless it has assumed the legal authority to wage its "War on Drugs."

According to nearly every scientific study on the subject, including ones conducted by the government, medical marijuana provides unique relief to patients suffering from cancer, AIDS, glaucoma and other illnesses, and the drug does not have the same addictive properties as alcohol.

The federally approved Marinol contains the psychoactive THC but lacks other cannabinoids crucial to marijuana as an effective medicine. This is one of the many insanities of federal drug policy, which categorizes a plant that has never been shown to kill anyone as more illegal than cocaine, and certainly more illegal than alcohol.

Though smoking marijuana just as smoking tobacco can cause harm to the lungs and respiratory system, the drug can also be ingested and vaporized so as to prevent such unwanted side effects.

On a fundamental level, Libertarians believe that it is the unalienable and constitutional right of individuals to medicate themselves and choose for themselves what to put into their bodies, as long as they live up to the consequences of their actions. The federal government has no proper say in the matter, and state governments violate the rights of the people in their own attempts to enforce morality. The decision to ingest, smoke or consume any drug should be up to the individual, under the advice of his or her physician, when appropriate. Locking people up for trying to relieve their pain is cruel and unusual punishment for an act that hurts no one.

The Drug War has led to some of the worst violations of the constitutional liberties of Americans, as well as to the worst wave of violent crime in American history since Alcohol Prohibition. It has been used to rationalize unlawful searches and seizures, corruption of the court system, no-knock raids, racial profiling, and "civil asset forfeiture" a policy whereby government officials can confiscate private property without even charging anyone with a crime. The War on Drugs, more than anything else, has served as a means of destroying the Bill of Rights. It has also led to excessive taxes and spending, costing more than 40 billion dollars a year to arrest, prosecute and imprison non-violent drug offenders.

Drug Prohibition has caused gang warfare and other violent crime by raising the prices of drugs so much that vicious criminals enter the market to make astronomical profits, and addicts rob and steal to get money to pay the inflated prices for their drugs. On average, drug prisoners spend more time in federal prison than rapists, who often get out on early release because of the over-crowding in prison caused by the Drug War. While violent criminals can usually have their sentences reduced, drug offenders are subject to "mandatory minimums," which strip away judicial discretion and force judges to put users and dealers in prison for decades. This has to stop.

The Drug War also has funded terrorists; providing them with opportunities for enormous profits, and even by giving foreign aid to such regimes as the Taliban as long as they promised to have "tough drug" policies.

The Drug War does not curb demand, it barely reduces supply, however it makes America much more dangerous and much less free.

A Libertarian president would order federal officials to cease and desist in harassing medical marijuana patients and would block federal spending on the War on Drugs. Nonviolent drug offenders would be released from federal prison, and each state would choose its own drug policy, just as each chose its own alcohol policy when alcohol Prohibition was repealed. Libertarians would hope and expect most states to come around and severely reform their policies to make them more humane and less at odds with the Constitution and the American way of life.


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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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Offlinemurseh8r
freedumb

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 130
Loc: 12.3356 long./880.11 lat.
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: lets not forget the DRUG WAR [Re: Ancalagon]
    #3270956 - 10/24/04 11:36 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

the chances of a lib. president being elected are zero.........so please vote for kerry even though he is a douche and help remove the dictator


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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: lets not forget the DRUG WAR [Re: murseh8r]
    #3270981 - 10/24/04 11:51 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

murseh8r said:
the chances of a lib. president being elected are zero.........so please vote for kerry even though he is a douche and help remove the dictator



The chances of a libertarian president in 2004, while not zero, are very small -- I will grant you that. However, if you continue to vote for the lesser of two evils the movement cannot possibly grow. Why do you want to be the LAST PERSON to vote for liberty? If you were on the Titanic would you be waiting for everybody else to test out the lifeboats first and make sure they can float(make sure libertarians can win...) before you decided it was time to hop on? Fuck no. You'd jump on a lifeboat as soon as the opportunity presented itself. Why is this scenario any different? You have to rid this false dichotomy from your thought process -- not only are George Bush and John Kerry not your only choices, but BOTH of them are completely illegitimate and it is unbelievable that people who can otherwise see through this charade of a system are being swindled into voting for one of these wastes. Murs, if you vote for John Kerry on November 2nd, the Democratic Party is not going to have any idea what you meant by your vote. They're not going to be sitting around saying, well Murs really dissaproves of the vast majority of John Kerry's policies but he's given us his vote this one time because we're the lesser of two evils. You're EXTREMELY naive if you think that's how it goes down. To the bosses in Washington your vote, regardless of its intentions, is a metaphorical checkmark for everything John Kerry represents: the perpetuation of the warfare state and it's neccesary militarism, the perpetuation of the erosion of liberty, the continual growth of the leviathan that is government, etc. -- the only thing your vote says to the people in Washington is, keep up the good work! Please take a stand and vote for a return to liberty in this nation.


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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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Offlineekomstop
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Registered: 03/31/01
Posts: 1,880
Loc: Canada Flag
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
Re: lets not forget the DRUG WAR [Re: murseh8r]
    #3270983 - 10/24/04 11:53 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

http://www.drugsense.org/wodclock.htm

http://www.drugwarfacts.org/

http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v99/n667/a01.html

WHAT DOES THE DRUG WAR COST?

Through its Office of National Drug Control Policy, the federal government spends $17 billion per year fighting drugs.

That's roughly the same thing it spends on the Food Stamp program, which feeds poor Americans, and on our country's entire General Sciences, Space, and Technology budget.

But the actual financial cost of the drug war is much higher, with many drug-reform advocacy groups quoting the cost at $50 billion, which is equal to the combined budgets for all of our country's agriculture, energy, and veteran's programs.

And still, a close examination shows that the total annual costs of the drug war probably exceed $50 billion.

State and local governments contributed $15.9 billion to the fight against drugs in 1991, the last year for which the federal government tallied that figure. At that time federal spending on drug eradication was half what it is today.

Of the $17 billion the federal government directly spends each year to control drug use, 61 percent goes for criminal justice and interdiction, while 30 percent goes for treatment and prevention programs.

Yet the cost of fighting drugs continues beyond the high-profile drug busts and spirited DARE rallies.

The California Department of Corrections has an annual budget of $3.9 billion to deal with 161,000 inmates, 46,655 of whom are being incarcerated for drug offenses at a cost of about $1.1 billion each year.

Nationwide, federal government figures show there are more than 1.7 million people in prisons and jails, 22 to 33 percent of those for drug offenses. At an average annual cost of about $20,000 per inmate, that adds nearly $7.8 billion to the drug war price tag.

And then there are the soft costs of the drug war, which may be impossible to calculate. How much have we paid in welfare and social service costs to families once supported by drug profits? How much have we paid in foreign aid to countries that fight drugs at our insistence? How much money have we removed from the underground economy, especially in drug-growing regions like Humbolt County, by destroying million of pounds of illegal product each year? How many police and court officers could we eliminate if there were no drug laws?

Such questions need to be taken into account during any serious debate over whether the drug war is worth its costs.


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
Exposer of Truth
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/13/03
Posts: 13,673
Loc: Smokey Mtns. TN Flag
Last seen: 4 months, 10 days
Re: lets not forget the DRUG WAR [Re: murseh8r]
    #3271472 - 10/24/04 03:11 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Kerry isnt gonna do anything to fix the drug war.All politicians wanna seem like they are crusaders for justice.


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Invisiblepsilomonkey
Twisted brainwrong of a oneoff man mental

Registered: 08/08/03
Posts: 812
Loc: Airstrip One
Re: lets not forget the DRUG WAR [Re: murseh8r]
    #3271482 - 10/24/04 03:14 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

What makes you think Kerry is going to end the drug war? He may in fact be more hawkish regarding the drug war.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...rue#Post3038980

And this shit about not voting for a 3rd candidate is utter bullshit, although it not very likely they will win. A shift in votes will get political attention, and bring 'fringe' issues into the mainstream.

This had happened in the UK with the BNP and Immigration, although I don't agree with the BNP the hate they BNP spout, it does show how the political landscape can be altered by the fringe party.


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OfflineBleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 1,583
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
Re: lets not forget the DRUG WAR [Re: murseh8r]
    #3271841 - 10/24/04 04:54 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

murseh8r said:
the chances of a lib. president being elected are zero.........so please vote for kerry even though he is a douche and help remove the dictator




if u want to remove a dictator, kill the bitch.
if u want to participate in democracy, vote for whoever the fuck u want.


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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Offlinemurseh8r
freedumb

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 130
Loc: 12.3356 long./880.11 lat.
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: lets not forget the DRUG WAR [Re: Ancalagon]
    #3272127 - 10/24/04 06:19 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

but this day and age a vote for a lib. is actually going towards keeping bush in office.
next week my main concern is that dubya gets sent back to Texas.
if you oppose bush and your a voter you will need to vote Kerry to accomplish the anti-bush movement, as far as getting him out of control of the whole world goes.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: lets not forget the DRUG WAR [Re: murseh8r]
    #3272141 - 10/24/04 06:22 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

murseh8r said:
if you oppose bush and your a voter you will need to vote Kerry to accomplish the anti-bush movement, as far as getting him out of control of the whole world goes.



What if I'm with the anti-Bush-and-Kerry movement?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinemurseh8r
freedumb

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 130
Loc: 12.3356 long./880.11 lat.
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: lets not forget the DRUG WAR [Re: silversoul7]
    #3272157 - 10/24/04 06:27 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

well so far Kerry hasn't order anyone to take the life of any innocent human beings!


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: lets not forget the DRUG WAR [Re: murseh8r]
    #3272163 - 10/24/04 06:28 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

murseh8r said:
well so far Kerry hasn't order anyone to take the life of any innocent human beings!



No, but he voted to give Bush that authority.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineRoseM
Devil's Advocate
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Registered: 09/24/03
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Re: lets not forget the DRUG WAR [Re: BleaK]
    #3272171 - 10/24/04 06:31 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Everybody who can vote gets to vote for whoever they choose.

3rd party voters shouldn't vote for Kerry unless Kerry compells them to vote for him.

Their votes are not stolen from Kerry. They were never meant for him.

Libbies need to understand this simple fact of voting.


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Fiddlesticks.



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