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deff
just love everyone
Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 9,425
Loc: clarity
Last seen: 1 hour, 59 minutes
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You mean, everyone closer to realizing we _are_ one?
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,063
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yeah EGO is another poorly understood word, same as VOIDNESS, so what can we all agree upon? I am calling habits and reactions just that, and I am not bringing in other concepts which don't help in understanding the core concept, they are secondary and hinge on the core concept which is still just hanging there loosely.
No big ideas are required to understand zen: in understanding it you are not acquiring new knowledge, you are instead seeing the immense need of sitting in the face of the unknown and creating a good relationship with that process.
the only knowledge is that there is a point to something which is not known, not taken away and held like a posession, not learned, but done for the sake of the connection (to the unknown). no need to over discuss it, enough key knowledge is already in you and relates to what you know about being as a child, and what you know about habits.
everything else really is pedantic, except for practice, and analysis of how habits form, engage, mutate, etc.
well there is another thing, hugely misunderstood, hugely overconceptualized. It emerges naturally in the quiet, and everyone wants it.
love
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: The Power of Zen. [Re: deff]
#3279272 - 10/26/04 12:04 PM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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Indeed, I've been off the ball all day....
Peace.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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deff
just love everyone
Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 9,425
Loc: clarity
Last seen: 1 hour, 59 minutes
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Yup, encrypting the void into perception blinds one from the underlying void
To truly experience it, we have to do away with our tendency to attempt understanding and rationality.
The moment has already passed, but how many people noticed?
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Hmmmmmmm creating defintive words? Isn't that how all world misunderstanding were created in the first place? They are evil!
The more we define, the more we serve to seperate and isolate ourselves from each other.
I don't know the answer other then using more words to build bridges of understanding, maybe we should move to a symbol system.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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deff
just love everyone
Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 9,425
Loc: clarity
Last seen: 1 hour, 59 minutes
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Words are symbols...?
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,063
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Re: The Power of Zen. [Re: deff]
#3279308 - 10/26/04 12:14 PM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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I like it better when you say "we are all one."
in computer terms: zen-mind is like full video and audio and habits-mind is like effective but stifling dialog boxes you watch the movie, but you interact with the forms
encryption and decryption is like communication and relationships with people.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: The Power of Zen. [Re: deff]
#3279314 - 10/26/04 12:14 PM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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I was thinking along the lines of symbols for concepts, but even those are subjective.
Lets face it, we are screwed from totally understanding each other all of the time. LOL
Maybe that is the mysterious force that moves things, the driving need to be understood.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,063
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I never know what your are going to say next! by for a while- gotta get back to wrk.
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deff
just love everyone
Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 9,425
Loc: clarity
Last seen: 1 hour, 59 minutes
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Yup, we are alone in our own existence so long as we are deluded away from Oneness.
Or something.
The need to overlap our experiences is the same as the urge towards rationailty and order. Validating our own 'truths' through the mutual perceptions of similar beings.
I don't find communication really accomplishes much, it's just a dance of sorts.
Of course, nothing accomplishments everything.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: The Power of Zen. [Re: deff]
#3279398 - 10/26/04 12:33 PM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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Dancing is fun. If thats the best we have to do with eachother, I can live with that.
By the way Red, not knowing what I am going to say next is my being ZEN. Like the water, the more you try to grasp it, it flows from your clutch. Water can fill any container and take on any form
Relating to the martial arts , as Bruce Lee taught, this unpredictability gives you an advantage if you come under attack.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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deff
just love everyone
Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 9,425
Loc: clarity
Last seen: 1 hour, 59 minutes
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Yeah, dancing is fun
But sometimes I'm curious as to the role of the DJ
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: The Power of Zen. [Re: deff]
#3279433 - 10/26/04 12:42 PM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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To keep us moving, to bring us closer together, to make us trip over our own damn feet when we fall out of tune and to make us get up again.
gettin jiggy with it!
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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deff
just love everyone
Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 9,425
Loc: clarity
Last seen: 1 hour, 59 minutes
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: The Power of Zen. [Re: deff]
#3279480 - 10/26/04 12:52 PM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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You forgot this one It's not a party unless some drunkard is there to make an ass of himself.
oh and this one and what we would humans do without the intro music into a drama???????????
Party On!
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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deff
just love everyone
Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 9,425
Loc: clarity
Last seen: 1 hour, 59 minutes
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And now for the DJ...
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Quote:
gettinjiggywithit said: Hmmmmmmm creating defintive words? Isn't that how all world misunderstanding were created in the first place? They are evil!
I wouldn't think so, it would seem to me that it would be the first step towards understanding. Communication is absolutely necessary, as it is interaction, and how can one understand another if they are not interacting? To establish a connection (which is key to becoming interconnected with all things on a variety of levels), one must communicate (interact). The only way we have of communicating abstract ideas and meanings - speech and writing. Pointing, gesturing, smiling, winking, etc. only take us so far.
Quote:
The more we define, the more we serve to seperate and isolate ourselves from each other.
This isn't true. I would prefer to seperate myself from a state of ignorant interconnectedness in order to learn and take on meaning and understanding, so that I can then re-enter the state of interconnectedness knowingly and purposely. This is essential to: growth and evolution.
Innerconnectedness doesn't mean a grey blob with no distinctions, it implies seperate individuals completely understanding and aware, but yet in a state of continous interaction with all other aspects and variables of the system they are a part of...
Just as the system has a structure (of course, one in a constant state of change), and consists of near unlimited, individual aspects, ones own mind should as well, as consciousness is to mirror reality. Obviously everything is impermanent and constantly changing as everything is constantly interacting with everything, and this is why it is important to have the appropriate thought structure that can process the incoming information effectively (when it is necessary to do so), so one is existing in the most real, complete state of being.
This requires distinctions to be made, definitions to be applied, etc. etc. etc., keeping in mind that these things need to be completely flexible as everything is in a constant state of flux. This is the nature of consciously interacting, regardless of how one consciously interacts....
Its like Markos once said, egoloss first requries a healthy, strong ego. (ego here, I believe, is referring to the main structure of the mind).
Peace.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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I've said the exact same things you just here before. I beleive it all too and the other stuff I just said. It all has validity somewhere in the mix of the big picture.
However, if you think you or anyone I going to be able to get everyone in the world to agree on a definitive meaning for concepts of abstracts like ZEN, EGO, LOVE, GOD etc. goodluck!
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,063
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jiggy you were closer before you got indignant just keep it simple today you really unlearned something important for a while that was significant.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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I still don't get it. I have "washed the dishes" while washing the dishes; i.e. being fully in the moment with no external or internal distractions. Yes, one is more likely to do a better job and not "accidentally" break a dish or miss a spot and this is a positive real-world effect which is its own reward. However, as I have stated, I use this mindset for several hours almost EVERY DAY when I play my sports. There has NEVER been an inkling of any other dimension or access to great wisdom; it is merely using more of one's focus on the task at hand. It is like running on 8 cylinders instead of 5. I see absolutely nothing spiritual about this; just greater efficiency.
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
Edited by Swami (10/26/04 03:30 PM)
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