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Offlinetomk
King of OTD

Registered: 09/22/04
Posts: 1,559
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Driving while stoned?
    #3261946 - 10/21/04 09:28 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Except that people who drive stoned are likely to be a.) driving slower, and b.) aware they are imparied and thus overcompensate for paying attention, yeilding the result that drivers who use marijuana are less likely then average to be involved in an accident, and also yeilding the result that those who are impaired and in an accident are in an accident at lower speeds.


--------------------
"I am eternally free"


Edited by trendal (10/21/04 11:02 PM)


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Help get Shroomism out of jail. [Re: tomk]
    #3262006 - 10/21/04 09:39 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Except that people who drive stoned are likely to be a.) driving slower, and b.) aware they are imparied and thus overcompensate for paying attention, yeilding the result that drivers who use marijuana are less likely then average to be involved in an accident,

Balony...

This argument can be used to justify driving while impaired by any substance including alcohol. People who argue otherwise usually change their mind when they lose a friend or relative to an impaired driver.

I'd buy this excuse if I hadn't personally witnessed stoned drivers constantly missing their exits off the highway.

It's irresponsible attitudes like this that fuel the anti-drug hysteria. I'm all for the responsible use of drugs, you have that right; but you do not have the right to endanger others by driving a car while impaired.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Help get Shroomism out of jail. [Re: Diploid]
    #3262032 - 10/21/04 09:47 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
This argument can be used to justify driving while impaired by any substance including alcohol. People who argue otherwise usually change their mind when they lose a friend or relative to an impaired driver.



Ya know, plenty of people get killed by sober drivers too.

Quote:

I'd buy this excuse if I hadn't personally witnessed stoned drivers constantly missing their exits off the highway.



That's more of an inconvenience than a safety hazard. If you miss the exit, you can just take the next exit and turn around.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Help get Shroomism out of jail. [Re: silversoul7]
    #3262038 - 10/21/04 09:49 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

That's more of an inconvenience than a safety hazard. If you miss the exit, you can just take the next exit and turn around.

You're missing my point.

If a stoned driver can miss an exit, he can also miss (hit) a guy crossing the street. :thumbdown:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Offlinetomk
King of OTD

Registered: 09/22/04
Posts: 1,559
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 9 months, 6 days
Re: Help get Shroomism out of jail. [Re: Diploid]
    #3262042 - 10/21/04 09:50 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

This is not an argument based on my personal experience.

Instead, the argument is based on what researchers found.

When they compared alcohol, marijuana and the control group, those on marijuana drove better compared to both the alcohol and control group.

Because this argument relies on evidence, it cannot be used by those on other substances.


--------------------
"I am eternally free"


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Help get Shroomism out of jail. [Re: Diploid]
    #3262045 - 10/21/04 09:51 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
If a stoned driver can miss an exit, he can also miss (hit) a guy crossing the street. :thumbdown:



As can a sober driver.  The one time I got in an accident, I was completely sober.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Help get Shroomism out of jail. [Re: silversoul7]
    #3262093 - 10/21/04 10:03 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

As can a sober driver. The one time I got in an accident, I was completely sober.

But a sober driver isn't putting other people at an *increased* risk without their consent. When I get in a car, I assume certain risks involved in driving a car. That risk doesn't include a risk placed on me unwillingly by a selfish stoner who can't be bothered to wait until he gets to his destination to start partying.

A stoner who can't be bothered to wait to get stoned until he gets to his destination is putting others at increased risk without their consent. It is selfish and wrong no matter how you try to justify and rationalize it.

And if I were a narrow-minded anti-drug zealot, this exact attitude would be a great source of firepower against the rest of us who chose to use drugs responsibly.

Do you advocate drunk driving too? :thumbdown:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Help get Shroomism out of jail. [Re: tomk]
    #3262103 - 10/21/04 10:06 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

When they compared alcohol, marijuana and the control group, those on marijuana drove better compared to both the alcohol and control group.

That was *one* study and the results have never been reproduced. All other studies have shown that stoned drivers are impaired and drive worse stoned than sober.

If you say otherwise, please provide a citation to the study.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Help get Shroomism out of jail. [Re: Diploid]
    #3262111 - 10/21/04 10:09 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
As can a sober driver. The one time I got in an accident, I was completely sober.

But a sober driver isn't putting other people at an *increased* risk without their consent. When I get in a car, I assume certain risks involved in driving a car. That risk doesn't include a risk placed on me unwillingly by a selfish stoner who can't be bothered to wait until he gets to his destination to start partying.

A stoner who can't be bothered to wait to get stoned until he gets to his destination is putting others at increased risk without their consent. It is selfish and wrong no matter how you try to justify and rationalize it.

And if I were a narrow-minded anti-drug zealot, this exact attitude would be a great source of firepower against the rest of us who chose to use drugs responsibly

Do you advocate drunk driving too? :thumbdown:



Only if you can handle it(I can't).


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinetomk
King of OTD

Registered: 09/22/04
Posts: 1,559
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 9 months, 6 days
Re: Help get Shroomism out of jail. [Re: Diploid]
    #3262112 - 10/21/04 10:09 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I think this thread has been driven off topic by stoners.


--------------------
"I am eternally free"


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Help get Shroomism out of jail. [Re: silversoul7]
    #3262143 - 10/21/04 10:14 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

So, tell me something...

If you kill someone's sister while driving stoned, what would you say to the fammily?

"Uhm... sorry.  But you know, chances are I would have accidentally run her over any way even if I'd been sober."

I can't believe I'm in S&P of all places arguing against a proponent of driving impaired.  :sad:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
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Re: Help get Shroomism out of jail. [Re: Diploid]
    #3262156 - 10/21/04 10:17 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
So, tell me something...

If you kill someone's sister while driving stoned, what would you say to the fammily?



I would sincerely apologize for my wreckless driving, and would take full accountability for it, instead of blaming it on the drug.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

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Re: Help get Shroomism out of jail. [Re: silversoul7]
    #3262163 - 10/21/04 10:19 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I would sincerely apologize for my wreckless driving, and would take full accountability for it, instead of blaming it on the drug.

I see. So you're immune to the effects of drugs.

Hmm...


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Invisiblepsyka
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Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 1,652
Re: Help get Shroomism out of jail. [Re: silversoul7]
    #3262169 - 10/21/04 10:20 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Driving impaired on any substance other than serotonin is just plain foolish.  :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,329
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Re: Help get Shroomism out of jail. [Re: silversoul7]
    #3262176 - 10/21/04 10:21 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

It could be said that driving on LSD is safer than drunk driving, and marijuana is not as much of an impairment as alcohol, BUT any impairment is too much in that situation, though, this now seems somewhat off topic.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Help get Shroomism out of jail. [Re: Diploid]
    #3262182 - 10/21/04 10:22 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

No, I take the effects of drugs into account. I wouldn't drive after taking 5 shots of Tequila, but I know that I can still drive after 2 beers. Similarly, I wouldn't get in the driver's seat right after taking gravity bong hits, but I know I can handle a bowl or two and still drive ok. It's called knowing your limits.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Help get Shroomism out of jail. [Re: psyka]
    #3262200 - 10/21/04 10:25 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

"This argument can be used to justify driving while impaired by any substance including alcohol. People who argue otherwise usually change their mind when they lose a friend or relative to an impaired driver."

What about all of the people killed due to 'unimpared' driving? Does this mean that we should always impair ourselves before we drive? :laugh:

Maybe there is no relationship between impairment (due to being high) and the actual cause of the accidents, and rather they are based on the probability of the two premises: a) many accidents occur and b) many people smoke marijuana occruing in the same case.

I've actually read of a study where high drivers recorded slower driving speeds and more cautious habits, and while their reaction time was slightly less, this slowness and cautiousness more than made up for it in less accidents than sober drivers. I don't know the source unfortunately :frown:


--------------------



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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

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Re: Help get Shroomism out of jail. [Re: silversoul7]
    #3262209 - 10/21/04 10:26 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I can still drive after 2 beers.

So can I, but we'd both be impaired and selfishly inflicting an increased risk of injury and death on others who have nothing to do with our partying.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Help get Shroomism out of jail. [Re: deff]
    #3262228 - 10/21/04 10:29 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I've actually read of a study where high drivers recorded slower driving speeds and more cautious habits, and while their reaction time was slightly less, this slowness and cautiousness more than made up for it in less accidents than sober drivers. I don't know the source unfortunately

For those with short attention spans, I'll repeat what I said above:

That was *one* study and the results have never been reproduced. All other studies have shown that stoned drivers are impaired and drive worse stoned than sober.

If you say otherwise, please provide a citation to the study.


This discussion is absurd. I'm arguing with people who advocate driving a car while impaired.

I'm done with this discussion.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
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Re: Help get Shroomism out of jail. [Re: Diploid]
    #3262235 - 10/21/04 10:31 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
I can still drive after 2 beers.

So can I, but we'd both be impaired and selfishly inflicting an increased risk of injury and death on others who have nothing to do with our partying.



I know what I can handle, and if I have consumed something, I watch my driving more carefully. It's recklessness that's most likely to cause an accident, sober or not.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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