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Offlinericelicker
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Alternative for Oven Bags
    #3257512 - 10/20/04 07:56 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

So TD has everything, EVERYTHING, he needs to do the bulk double tub fruiting chamber tek - except oven bags and the hepa (going to Rite-Aid to get that, yes they do have one he already checked)

He wants to know if there are any alternates to heat-proof bags? He noticed EatUAlive used the turkey tin in the oven @ 185f to pasteurize the dung/verm so he'll do that for the poo. Could he do something similar with straw? Maybe in a ziplock container? 185 is not very high.

This is not a large amount of straw we're talking but it's the last peice to a puzzle he has been putting together for some time.

Thanks.

-ricelicker


--------------------
"my brain waves travel at half the speed afta we..." -del tha funkee

"Two men looked out through prison bars...one saw the mud, one saw the stars." -anonymous


Edited by ricelicker (10/21/04 04:49 AM)


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Offlineonetime
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Re: Alternate to bags [Re: ricelicker]
    #3257540 - 10/20/04 08:02 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

yeah the oven tek is kinda hard you could also use a pillow case and boil that at 170-180 for like and hr hold on i will find the link

"..Now we need a large stock pot (20qt+) to pasteurize the straw in. Fill the pot about half way full of hot tap-water and heat it till near boiling on a stove burner. Next, take your shredded straw and place it into a nylon mesh lingerie bag (from Wal-mart in the laundry section) and submerge it into the hot water. Place a heavy bowl (or something similar) on the bag to keep it completely under water. Put the lid on the pot and let the straw steep at about ~150deg.F~ for one full hour making sure that water doesn't boil dry. After 1 hour, take out the bag (wear rubber gloves) and place it into a large pasta strainer to cool and drain. If you want to be extra cautious you can take your pot and invert it over the strainer to prevent air-bourne contamination....But, this isn't really necessary because pasteurized straw is fairly resistant to contaminants....

....Once cool ('bout 45min-1hour), give the bag a good squeeze to get rid of the excess water. Now you are ready for inoculation. I like to dump the straw in a large clean rubbermaid container and then mix in some grain spawn by hand (wash with antibacterial soap or wear gloves). Now pack your straw+spawn into a suitable container. I like to use small rubbermaid containers. Cover the top with tinfoil and puncture with a clean needle several times. Proceed with the spawn-run. You should have about two weeks (plenty of time!) to establish the mycelium of choice. Well, thats about it....a little bit longer than I expected but o'well. Oh yea, straw is also good for cultivating Pan cyan, Ps. tampanensis, and Pleurotus ("oyster mushrooms") species. For using larger amounts, use a 55 gallon drum heated with a propane burner.....Good Luck!"


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Offlinericelicker
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Re: Alternate to bags [Re: onetime]
    #3257890 - 10/20/04 09:18 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Please explain why the oven tek is hard? TD plans on putting all the verm and dung in a big turkey tin and covering with heavy duty foil. Preheat to 185f and cook for 3 hours.

Is there a problem here or are you just saying it's harder with straw? Or just hard without oven bags or what?

When the oven bags get here (mycosupply) he is planning on just using those to do the straw in the oven and the . What can you suggest?

Thanks again


--------------------
"my brain waves travel at half the speed afta we..." -del tha funkee

"Two men looked out through prison bars...one saw the mud, one saw the stars." -anonymous


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Re: Alternate to bags [Re: ricelicker]
    #3257964 - 10/20/04 10:09 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

what would you need mycobags for? that is what the tin is for, a container to pasteruize. the bags are just to produce substrate to spawn the poo. There really wouldnt be a point in putting them in a bag then into a turkey tin.


--------------------
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Offlinericelicker
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Re: Alternate to bags [Re: derx]
    #3258348 - 10/20/04 11:40 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Derx!!! You saved a life.

OK maybe it's not that extreme, but let me get this right:

One could use 2 turkey tins, one with the dung/verm, one with the straw, cover both with heavy duty foil, preheat oven to 185f, cook for 3 hours and be good, right?

Things that come to mind:

About what onetime said regarding "yeah the oven tek is kinda hard"? What is hard? This sounds too easy....

Why not go the extra step and mix the dung/straw/verm all togther in a turkey tin and do the oven tek? This would take out a step of mixing in the open air afterward, you would only have to add the spawn.....

PS, TD is using 3 ziplock containers of brf/verm fully colonized as spawn.

Feels like he's almost ready to do this shit, let's just iron out this last part ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ and he's ready for blast off.


--------------------
"my brain waves travel at half the speed afta we..." -del tha funkee

"Two men looked out through prison bars...one saw the mud, one saw the stars." -anonymous


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InvisibleGnuBobo
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Re: Alternate to bags [Re: ricelicker]
    #3258360 - 10/20/04 11:44 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Y'know, I'm wondering about bags in a different way.  I was planning to pasteurize some poo and straw in pillow sacks.  That wasn't the problem.  But what I wanted to try was spawning a quart of rye to about five quarts of poo/straw, using the oven bag deal with the ring of PVC, then tyvek on the opening.  I was going to let this colonize, then spawn this bag to a larger container.  Had some jars fail, don't have much spawn right now, so I'm trying to extend this.  Will this work?  And are there any alternatives to oven bags or should I just go with them as they're fairly durable?  Thanks! :grin:

GB


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Offlinericelicker
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Re: Alternate to bags [Re: GnuBobo]
    #3258529 - 10/21/04 12:14 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

help us someone!


--------------------
"my brain waves travel at half the speed afta we..." -del tha funkee

"Two men looked out through prison bars...one saw the mud, one saw the stars." -anonymous


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InvisibleGnuBobo
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Re: Alternate to bags [Re: ricelicker]
    #3258554 - 10/21/04 12:19 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Never mind.  I am dumb.  Found links. 
ricelicker:  Check out the archives at Mycotopia if you haven't.  Might help.  One way to pasteurize is to use bleach and hydrated lime in a water mix with the poo/straw and cook at ~175 for 90 minutes.  Check out Roger Rabbit's straw log tek for pasteurization tips at mycotopia.  It helped me.  Something to read, at least, until someone more knowledgeable posts.  :wink:


GB


--------------------
Jerry Garcia. JERRY GARCIA! JERRY GARCIA!!!!


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Offlinericelicker
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Re: Alternate to bags [Re: GnuBobo]
    #3258567 - 10/21/04 12:22 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Hmmmmm....no bleach or hydrated lime.....Where is EatUAlive when you need him?


--------------------
"my brain waves travel at half the speed afta we..." -del tha funkee

"Two men looked out through prison bars...one saw the mud, one saw the stars." -anonymous


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Re: Alternate to bags [Re: ricelicker]
    #3258588 - 10/21/04 12:28 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Pasteurization will work okay without those, they just help assure contams are outskie for about 2 weeks.


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OfflineGr0wer
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Re: Alternate to bags [Re: ricelicker]
    #3258592 - 10/21/04 12:30 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I would use doubled up tins if not baking trays for the oven tek. Also you really need straw compost to get the right water content, unless you have verm in the mix.

About the pre mixing of manure+ straw/verm, your better off mixing the manure in. You want the straw to be introduced to the beneficial bacteria for pasteurization.


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Offlinericelicker
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Re: Alternate to bags [Re: Gr0wer]
    #3258676 - 10/21/04 01:04 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

OK, one last thing and I swear that's it.

EatUAlive's double tub tek calls for soaking the straw and then PCing.

I have since been warned about PCing straw (don't sterilize, pasteurize) so TD made a modification - he is just going to pasteurize the straw but otherwise will follow that tek (double tub thread) to the T.

But he remember's hearing something about how a soak allows any endospores to germinate, which will allow the PC to kil them. So do you soak or not if you're just PASTEURIZING?

It seems if you soaked and then pasteurized the straw, you would end up with tons of endospores already germinated by the time you try to spawn. Sounds like disaster.

Please help!


--------------------
"my brain waves travel at half the speed afta we..." -del tha funkee

"Two men looked out through prison bars...one saw the mud, one saw the stars." -anonymous


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Re: Alternate to bags [Re: ricelicker]
    #3258868 - 10/21/04 01:53 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I've never done bulk before, but i do believe the straw is mixed with dung, no verm. I'm pretty sure you'd still soak it. Whether you soak it or not arent the endospores still going to be there? Endospores are less suspectable to heat than the actual bacteria. That is why we let them germinate first. I plan on following the dub tub exact. Now I guess you wanted to put bulk in a bag and spawn it that way? it would take a lot longer. but if you're going the way of the dub tubs, follow it exactly. If things dont work out, modify it after you first try it.


--------------------
better living through chemistry

OVERGROW the government!!

it's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom, ok, thats what it is.


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Offlinericelicker
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Re: Alternate to bags [Re: derx]
    #3258907 - 10/21/04 02:03 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

>>>if you're going the way of the dub tubs, follow it exactly
Well following it exactly requires PCing the straw.

Every single other source I've found says NO MATTER WHAT: DO NOT STERILIZE STRAW

So wtf?

He wants to pasteurize it, but the oven bags have not arrived. Can he pasteurize the straw in a turkey tin just like EatUAlive does his dung/verm mix?

Anyone? Please? Gr0wer, thank you for recommending double tins, still soak or no?????


--------------------
"my brain waves travel at half the speed afta we..." -del tha funkee

"Two men looked out through prison bars...one saw the mud, one saw the stars." -anonymous


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Re: Alternate to bags [Re: ricelicker]
    #3258918 - 10/21/04 02:05 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

i'd go with soak and pastuerize mixed up with the poo.


--------------------
better living through chemistry

OVERGROW the government!!

it's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom, ok, thats what it is.


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OfflineGr0wer
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Re: Alternate to bags [Re: ricelicker]
    #3258919 - 10/21/04 02:06 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

He steralizes the straw and dosent even pasteurize the verm/castings. You introduce all the benificial bacteria on the sterile hay with the castings and cooking it brinsg up the water content.


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Offlinericelicker
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Re: Alternate to bags [Re: Gr0wer]
    #3258972 - 10/21/04 02:25 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Now you got me confused because the tek says this:
6. Now place the thick large tin foil over the tray so that it is air tight. Make sure the type of foil you use is very wide so that it fits directly over the turkey tin and keeps all the moisture in.

7. Now you have to pastuerize the dung/verm mix in the oven. Preheat your oven to 185 degrees.

8. Place the trays in your oven and cook them for 2-4 hours at 185.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

I know cooking the straw brings up the water content, but it is pretty clear that he pasteurized the dung/verm and STERILIZED the straw.

Will this work:

Pasteurize the dung and verm in a turkey tin covered with heavy duty foil a 185f for 3 hours
& Pasteurize the straw after soaking 24hrs in a smaller aluminum tray, also covered with foil, also at 185f for 3 hours.

Let cool, mix with crumbled spawn and let incubate.

Can anyone with more knowledge than me give this a quick thumbs up so he can get this bitch started?


--------------------
"my brain waves travel at half the speed afta we..." -del tha funkee

"Two men looked out through prison bars...one saw the mud, one saw the stars." -anonymous


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OfflineHamurabi
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Re: Alternate to bags [Re: ricelicker]
    #3259452 - 10/21/04 07:07 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

hey guys calm down it's not that hard!!!
just take your substrate (poo or poo/straw or poo/verm or anything) mix it in a bowl and water it and then add it in an oven bag and let it in the oven for 6-8 hours at 65C and then let it cool in there.
check how easy it is in my grow log:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3252395/an/0/page/0#3252395


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Offlinericelicker
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Re: Alternate to bags [Re: Hamurabi]
    #3260010 - 10/21/04 12:26 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Hamurabi, would you still recommend a soak of the straw before pasteurizing instead of sterilizing?


--------------------
"my brain waves travel at half the speed afta we..." -del tha funkee

"Two men looked out through prison bars...one saw the mud, one saw the stars." -anonymous


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OfflineHamurabi
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Re: Alternate to bags [Re: ricelicker]
    #3260029 - 10/21/04 12:30 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

sure why not

also, after pasteurization, when you will spawn you could add some sterile water to your pasteurized substrate...


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

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