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OfflineGomp
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Assume
    #3250978 - 10/19/04 11:37 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Assuming an assumption? On the other hand, is that like putting butter on bacon?
Say -If I assumed I, would it be the I it could ever be? Like ?the god??

I don?t know what this babbling is, something about assumptions not serving any purpose

Not that it was thought that any other thing do, or don?t do, just do not know? Do I? :P rhetorical?

Edit:
this post has been messed up.. the ? is a ' some places..
and it is  ... and it seems to be " "'s

:rolleyes:


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Edited by Gomp (05/07/06 11:03 AM)


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Assume [Re: Gomp]
    #3251327 - 10/19/04 01:51 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

He He He, I can only assume what you meant by this post on assuming.

Based on my assumption, assuming "the position" is a either a great way to becoming or making an ass of yourself?


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Edited by gettinjiggywithit (10/19/04 01:53 PM)


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Assume [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3251371 - 10/19/04 02:06 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

haha  :heart: 
:grin: :thumbup:


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Assume [Re: Gomp]
    #3251636 - 10/19/04 03:09 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

everythings an assumption when observed through specific perceptions.

i could say i know this post exist

or i could say i assume it does

i assume im not hallucinating this

and i assume that assumption to be almost fact

and yet

it's still an assumption like anything else


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Offlinerecalcitrant
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Re: Assume [Re: deff]
    #3251754 - 10/19/04 03:40 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

deff, don't you think that denying the truth of your perceptions is nihilistic?

Is it important whether our experiences are "real" in their self explanitory senses or some variant of "virtual?"


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Re: Assume [Re: recalcitrant]
    #3251804 - 10/19/04 03:53 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I'm not placing any importance on 'real' vs 'imaginary' in this sense.

Either way, it's just that, perception. And as far as we are considered, perception is reality, experience is fact. In almost a democratic sense, the most shared qualities are defined as objective and the less shared, unique aspects are called imaginary or delusional.

Either way, it's the same relative to the observer, me (and you assuming you exist outside of my own perception :wink:)

Maybe it is nihilistic, but it doesn't matter :smile:


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Re: Assume [Re: recalcitrant]
    #3251864 - 10/19/04 04:12 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

YES it can be only he and most who are into ego loss and detachment don't know it yet.

Going egoless and detachted and becoming just the observer is like the ultimate for a spiritualist-FREEDOM it harkens! Ppllllllbbbbbbbb

Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure, it's great when you get there. La lallalalala NOTHING bothers you. It's a process of becoming "sensitive" to other aspects and in that process you become DESENSITIZED to the body and world around you in many ways. Anhilation, killing the ego self and attachment to the phsyical.

(I don't think that was the final purpose here in life)

It's my understanding, we are to be raising the physic bodies ability to house faster light vibrations so we can pull more spirit essense into the physical body for greater self realisation experiences.

So, this is what i have been working on lately, pulling it all in and getting back in.

If the day ever comes, where you decided you want to get back in, create and run your own ego programs for a new experience and get attached to some stuff to feel again, redevelope a sensitivity to life then you will see.................

The closest I can come is to use castenadas description of having your asemblage point shifted out of the body. You can be there for years and not even know it until you work to get fully back in and realise, you havn't been in body as you go about the days.

This is a very strange feeling to encounter. I don't even have words for it right now. This probably makes little sense to those who are after the golden egg or who have been floatin around shifted out of themselves and don't even know they are.

Oh well! I jus wanted to share this because I know, others are soon to be dealing with this. Maybe someone already has and can relate.


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InvisibleNariusFractal
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Re: Assume [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3251879 - 10/19/04 04:18 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

at times I feel like that...


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Assume [Re: NariusFractal]
    #3251906 - 10/19/04 04:27 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Heh, I like how you assert your position above mine, and other "detached" individuals.

The art of detachment, or whatever you wish to call it, is not what you are obviosuly thinking it is.

It is not denial.

It is not blocking things out.

No desensitization.

It's simply the search for the true self. The search for self begins with the isolation and removal of aspects of non-true self, such as the old cliche, the 'ego'.

No lies, no deceptions.

From one inside the framework, the framework appears safe, fun, and generally 'correct'. Afterall this is the framework's constant effect, to keep it's host within itself, believing and thus manifesting these obstacles to a much clearer picture.

It's fine if your path deals with the way you are acting and dealing with life. If you don't want to give it up, then don't. Detachment is not some end-all spitiual destination, but rather just losing some excess and completely unnecessary baggage to make the flight that much easier.

There is no route, only a vague glimpse of the next stop. How you get there is up to you.

Sure detached awareness isn't 'fun' in the egoic sense of the word. But beyond this hunger for illusionary pleasure lies the still and awe of tranquil existence, something more valuable for me than any material possesions or artificial emotions.

But it's up to you, no way is better. Just don't think that your way is any more 'real' than anothers.

thanks. :smile:


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Offlinerecalcitrant
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Re: Assume [Re: deff]
    #3251943 - 10/19/04 04:36 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Granted.

But dwelling on the unimportance of interpersonally agreeing on things like existance and genesis seems, to me, destructive.

Telling somebody to think "it doesn't matter what everyone else thinks is true, your own perceptions and experiences and deductions have shown you the truth," as corollary to your own philosophical supposition is dangerous. If everyone thought like this we would all disregard learning that came before us. I mean, we created language to share knowledge, and writting to preserve it. Telling people that they should find their own truths about reality through their experiences and perceptions is like demoting them to being animals. Or worse, to being simply collections of atoms drifting through the universe on the course of their destiny.

Sure it would be great if we could share the true perception of reality on the scale of a collective conscience. We could move forward together toward what is truely better.

My argument seems to be leaning toward "in the democratic sense we are defining objective reality and extorting any forces to our gains in that reality." some examples, money buys things that make rich people happy so they enslave people to make them more money, and thus happier; Air pollution is making people in LA sick so they put emitions controls in place to make us all safer.

I understand that you want to make everybody happy. Maybe some people are happier with the knowledge you've given them. But I think that personal acceptance of reality without any other endorsement than perception is ultimatly self defeating. Maybe its reassuring to know that your perception is enough evidence for understanding, but it's stagnant. Everybody can't just agree to disagree about universal premises and live happily ever after AND expect advancement.


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Re: Assume [Re: recalcitrant]
    #3251966 - 10/19/04 04:43 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

"But dwelling on the unimportance of interpersonally agreeing on things like existance and genesis seems, to me, destructive."

It shouldn't seem like anything. It's you that adds the perception of 'destructive'.

"Telling people that they should find their own truths about reality through their experiences and perceptions is like demoting them to being animals. Or worse, to being simply collections of atoms drifting through the universe on the course of their destiny."

We ARE animals. We ARE collections of atoms drifting through space. Deluding yourself away from this isn't necessarily any better. I don't mind being the collective experience of billions of persptually inert cells, and further atoms, why is it that you attach a negative label to this? Hmm... l'ego yo ego :wink:

"money buys things that make rich people happy so they enslave people to make them more money, and thus happier"

poor people can be many times happier than the rich. it's all in interpreting and manifesting your own personal and unique reality. In this example, buying into what consensual "reality" - mainly society - says, which is that money is destiny, that time is money rather than money being time, poor individuals would feel a lack of self-worth and generally a 'bum' of society. Or, ignoring these delusional stances, the same person could be in manifested heaven experiencing bliss of the now, something which the rich person greeding for more physical and material pleasures will never experience.

"Everybody can't just agree to disagree about universal premises and live happily ever after AND expect advancement."

Why not?


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Re: Assume [Re: NariusFractal]
    #3251977 - 10/19/04 04:48 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

How do you handle it, that feeling of floating as you go about your day when you catch it? What do make of it? I go through the motions well and can chit chat with people and all "apears" normal, but I am hangin in awareness not in a place that is fully and soley present IN my physical body.

I didn't know this until I started making moves to break back in. It gets frustrating because I get tastes now of feeling what it is like again and I want that feeling back- Fuck this budha crap, thats why I have the attitude about that stuff that I do.

Yessssssssssum, it's great when you get to the point of where nothing of matter matters- ahhhhhh more freedom to be egoless and detached, just hanging as the observer is being able to go to life, "na na na na na, you can't hurt me because I don't exist." And def will tell you it's true.

How many of you who have successfuly desensitized yourselves found yourself being called insensitive dozens of times over when you say things like, " Oh, the starving children, it doesn't matter, they don't really exist, it's all an illusion and they created that experience for themselves."

I mean, damnnit, come people, is that how we want to be?

My husband and I were going back and forth the the other day about something and he said to me, "don't you care about what i think?" and I paused to think about it. I should care about what matters to him and yet, the things of matter don't carry the same weight with me they do for him." It was "social pretentious crap"

This concerns me. I mean, what I am here for? To go through the motions pretending to be human while floating around in la la land thinking I am present too? I want the full on engrossed experience. I also want to keep the connection I made with the observer and ethereal realms as I move back in.

I'm sharing all of this because I want to give people chasing the carrot or who may be stuck out side of themselves and not know it some stuff to think about. Annnnnnnd, it would be nice to know if anyone can relate.

It's really kind of funny and even though, it doesn't matter, I personal, want it to matter again. I'm tired of being like the living dead.

Thanks Shiester!


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Re: Assume [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3252008 - 10/19/04 04:57 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

"I mean, damnnit, come people, is that how we want to be?"

"I want the full on engrossed experience. I also want to keep the connection I made with the observer and ethereal realms as I move back in."

"it doesn't matter, I personal, want it to matter again. I'm tired of being like the living dead."

There lies your problem.

When one thinks they have controlled the ego, they have only temporarily put a halt to it. It will find it's way back so long as you are around the conditioning that first created it - "popular" culture, television, socail interactions of a subconscious level, ect.

So many people think they are living when really, consciously, they are merely sleep walking. Everything's auto-pilot to them, everything becomes 'routine', a subconscious initiation of pre-determined programs and scripts, with a little unexpected improv, and then sleep to bring them into a seemingly 'new' day.

I will go as far as to say that ego detachment makes a person even more conscious and aware of their existence.

It is not like what you are implying it is at all.

"but I am hangin in awareness not in a place that is fully and soley present IN my physical body."

Umm.. think this one over a bit :smile:


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Re: Assume [Re: deff]
    #3252038 - 10/19/04 05:04 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Deff, you keep posting as I do and slippin stuff in.

Other then your being an advocate for the YOu don't exist way of life, you may not relate to anything I am saying and in that, I may not be reffering to you at all. You're acting like i am so i must've hit a nerve. GOOD. You still have some egoic feeling, it's not to late! LOL

Just kidding. I could keep flying forever and a day. No way is better then another. I just decided to make a new choice for myself and I commented that others may be doing the same up the road.

I feel like that dude in the matrix who said, "Fuck it, I want to go back in, ONLY, I am dropping back in with memory and with myself as my own program designer. THIS appeals to me NOW. It's not a better way or choice, just a different and new one for me.

I had no idea just how out of it I was until I started making the shift back in. I would've never guessed how difficult it is. I think it's important to share tis for anyone who can relate or may who may find themselves making the same choice up the road.


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Re: Assume [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3252045 - 10/19/04 05:08 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Whatever floats your boat :smile:


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OfflineTodcasil
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Re: Assume [Re: deff]
    #3252096 - 10/19/04 05:20 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

arent you the program designer anyways?


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Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.


~Casil



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Re: Assume [Re: deff]
    #3252097 - 10/19/04 05:20 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Now I know you have no clue what I am talking about. I went off auto pilot about 10 years ago and was in have been in the awareness of the bigger picture that you are talking about.

You see the ego as being something that has control over you and you must conquer it and that it tries to trick you into keeping it alive. I find that funny. It's duality shit. The mere fact that you accredit it with those aspects goes to show, that it is alive for as long as you are like it or not. Thats what I was writing about in that other post of yours about consciousness.

Now, your ego is just an identity that "mastered egolessness" and it is still alive or you wouldn't be driven to find fault with my words wanting to keep the idea of being the egoless self "right" alive.

II have been thinking about all of this for the last year. Me and a handfull of friends have been moving to drop back in and it's been difficult.

This talk makes us really unpopular with the la la las too. Thats why I moved off the other boards and like it here.

Def, we've pretty much been on the same wavelength with everything cept for this topic. You can stay right about your beliefs. You know how this works.


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Re: Assume [Re: Todcasil]
    #3252115 - 10/19/04 05:26 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Todcasil,

When def talks abot the people on auto pilot, he is reffering to people running off the ego program they themselves have programmed thoughout their life.

YES, we are always the programmer via the beliefs we feed ourselves about ourselves.

The only difference is, once you become aware of yourself as the programmer, the observer, the validater, the one who chooses what to beleive and not, you know yourself as the minute to minute creater of your experiences.

I do know that def and many want to separate this relationship and beleive it can be. As you beleive so shall it be. What I wish to point out to them is that this separation is a duality and a part of the illusion itself.

I am realising just how difficult it is for one to comprehend once they have created the separation and beleive in it. Thats what makes it so difficult to rewrite the programm to merge that separation again while staying off auto pilot.

I'm doing it. It can't be any more wrong then right-just something different to experience.


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Re: Assume [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3252220 - 10/19/04 05:57 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I never said such things. :smile:

You can try and trick me into alluring to a connection with the ego, but what's the use of this to you?

I claim nothing.

I am not a master of anything, nor do I pretend to be.

I merely translate my experience as best I can into these words.

Clearly there's been a translation error between us :smile:


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OfflineTodcasil
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Re: Assume [Re: deff]
    #3252263 - 10/19/04 06:08 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

i understand.

but if you truly willed it, then so it would be. stop wishing perhaps? stop wanting. its the desire that may be prolonging this.

eat your desires.


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Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.


~Casil



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