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Offlinenanananotehead
The Will or TheWay

Registered: 03/23/04
Posts: 450
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Court Day
    #3248197 - 10/12/04 07:17 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Does anyone know what happened in Arizona Court this morning involving Badnarik and the debate tomorrow? This is all i could find

(http://badnarik.org/newsfromthetrail.php?p=1360)


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CEPHALIC CARNAGE__ CEPHALICCARNAGE.NET


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Offlineunbeliever
Yo Daddy!
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Registered: 05/22/04
Posts: 5,158
Loc: Gallifrey
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Court Day [Re: nanananotehead]
    #3248222 - 10/12/04 07:21 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)



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Happiness is a warm gun...


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Offlinenanananotehead
The Will or TheWay

Registered: 03/23/04
Posts: 450
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: Court Day [Re: unbeliever]
    #3248238 - 10/12/04 07:26 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I still could not find the outcome of the hearing, is anything going to be stopped?


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Offlineunbeliever
Yo Daddy!
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Registered: 05/22/04
Posts: 5,158
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Re: Court Day [Re: nanananotehead]
    #3248277 - 10/12/04 07:33 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

nanananotehead said:
I still could not find the outcome of the hearing, is anything going to be stopped?




Oh I have no idea, didn't read any of those articles, haha. Now I'm sorta more motivated to try to go see the debates though. I'm still sick though, I'll probably puss out and watch them on the idiot box.


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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Court Day [Re: nanananotehead]
    #3248283 - 10/12/04 07:35 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

The Arizona Libertarian Party and co-plaintiff Warren Severin were represented by attorney David Euchner.

Arizona State University was represented by Carrie Brennan of the Attorney General?s office.

Commission on Presidential Debates was represented by Glen Hallman of the firm of Gallagher & Kennedy, physically in court, as well as Lewis Loss, General Counsel for the CPD by phone.

The judge started by ruling that the service was sufficient for purpose of notice of this hearing. Then, each side was given 30 minutes to argue the issue.

Euchner reserved 15 minutes of his argument for rebuttal, and argued the case based on the violation of Arizona?s Constitution, Art. 9, Sec. 7, which prohibit gifts to private entities. He presented additional arguments based on the 1st Amendment, the 14th Amendment equal protection clause, and case law which was on point.

Carrie Brennan argued the doctrine of latches (that the delay in bringing this suit worked an unfairness against the defendants). She further argued that the funding was provided by private parties, that there is great value to the University in hosting this, and that case law provides that such expenditures are allowed as long as they are not excessive or unreasonable.

Finally, she stated that there is an adequate remedy for any violations of the constitutional gift clause, therefore injunction is not appropriate.

Glen Hallman argued that Libertarians are not a special protected class, thus only a rational basis test applies to the equal protection argument, and using that test, the Libertarians were not discriminated against.

Lewis Loss argued that the CPD is non-partisan, and that Bush & Kerry would not proceed if Badnarik were admitted to the debate.

Euchner then rebutted, arguing that nobody remembers the location of the debates, and thus there is no value to the University in this expenditure, in other words, it is a gift to these two parties. As an example, Euchner argued that the only way debates are even remembered for any time is if they are parodied, such as on Saturday Night Live, and then rerun repeatedly. Further, even with a rational basis test on the equal protection clause, the judge should find for the Libertarians, because the discrimination is so blatant.

At the conclusion of the arguement, the judge issued his ruling from the bench:

1. No restraining order, because of the doctrine of latches, and that there appears to be sufficient public purpose for this debate.

2. The Plaintiffs may continue to pursue damages for any violations of the constitutional provisions.


In summary, we couldn?t stop the debates or get Badnarik in, but we may still be able to hold them accountable through damages.
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We are still waiting for the written order, but a few things are clear.

I clearly disagree with the ruling with respect to the doctrine of latches is incorrect for several reasons. To begin, we filed initially on October 1, and not the October 7 date the judge mentioned. The Washington Post reported that Bush did not even agree to debate until September 20. The CPD did not announce who would be excluded until October 6. It takes time for a pattern of illegal spending to occur, and for Libertarians to be able to document the pattern and respond. We did this in the most timely manner possible. Additionally, we filed in enough time that the hearing could have occurred earlier than the day before the debate.

Apparently the American public disagrees with the judge in regard to sufficient public purpose. Depending upon the poll cited, between 57% and 68% believe that the debates should be open, at least to those having a mathematical possibility of obtaining enough electoral votes to win an election.

Contrary to the ruling, public purpose is clearly not being served - as Americans will be unable to hear a voice for smaller government, opposition to civil liberties violations, or damnation of the war in Iraq. Just yesterday, it was reported that another soldier from Arizona had died in Iraq. If acting politically in order to stop the deaths of more Arizonans does not serve a compelling public purpose, I truly wonder what does.

There is a bright side, however. The judge has left open avenues to seek compensation for damage. We are still discussing the possibilities, but it seems likely that we will be adding the city of Tempe to the list of defendants, and probably suing for a very considerable amount of money. If Bush and Kerry are obtaining millions of dollars of PR value at taxpayer expense, there is a fair basis for Libertarians to receive the same benefit.

It has been made clear that taxpayer money obtained in a suit will somehow be returned to them - although the mechanism has not been determined.
However, CPD money is fair game, in my opinion. We are considering all of our options, at this moment, and it is safe to assume that you may expect more actions from us over the next day or so.


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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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