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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Top 10 misconceptions about government
    #3245551 - 10/12/04 12:30 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

link

Top 10 misconceptions about government

? 2001 WorldNetDaily.com

When people argue for or against some new government program, a lot of what's said is based on assumptions about government that just aren't so.

Direct from the home office in the slums of Washington, D.C., here are the top 10 misconceptions commonly peddled about government today. ...

The budget and Social Security

Misconception No. 10: "The federal budget has been in surplus since 1998."

Not so. The federal debt increased by $109 billion in 1998, by $127 billion in 1999, and by $23 billion in 2000.

The politicians are taking excess Social Security receipts and using them to cover spending on foreign aid, corporate welfare, and thousands of other boondoggles. Lumping Social Security in with the general budget transforms a budget deficit into a surplus ? but the federal debt continues to get larger and will have to be repaid someday.

Misconception No. 9: "The politicians are keeping Social Security funds separate and safe."

See Misconception No. 10. Even as politicians posture that they're protecting Social Security, they're stealing from it in order to hide the budget deficits. So long as Republicans and Democrats continue to peddle this lie, they're demonstrating that you shouldn't believe anything they say.

Federal programs

Misconception No. 8: "The Republicans prevented a takeover of health care by the federal government in 1994."

The Republican Congress has already enacted a large part of HillaryCare. Today half of all health-care dollars in America are spent by government, and another 20 percent by health-care plans that might not exist if it weren't for the income tax code.

HillaryCare is a bogeyman raised by one party to persuade you it isn't as bad as the other party.

Misconception No. 7: "The federal highway system allows poor states to have roads as good as those of the richer states."

The truth is just the opposite. The federal highway program allows the richer, more powerful states to plunder the poor states.

A main recipient of highway funds is Pennsylvania. Why Pennsylvania? Because the chairman of the House Transportation Committee is Bud Shuster of Pennsylvania.

The people in states like Alabama or Montana are taxed so that congressmen and senators can reward friends with contracts for a $2-billion subway system in Miami that doesn't work, a "People Mover" in Detroit that hardly anyone uses because it goes hardly anywhere, a billion-dollar airport in Denver that no one but the Denver mayor wanted. These are "your highway dollars at work."

Intruding on your life

Misconception No. 6: "The defeat of the 'Know Your Customer' program in 1999 stopped banks from spying on you."

Not so. Banks have been required to report large or suspicious transactions since 1970. And the definition of "suspicious" has included more transactions every year.

Now the government has expanded the reporting to include private financial companies. And the Post Office has a surveillance program called "Under the Eagle's Eye." Big Brother is watching you.

Misconception No. 5: "The problems created by the drug war are necessary to hold down drug use."

To believe that, you have to believe that only the drug laws keep you and me and everyone you know from shooting up heroin. Otherwise, how could drug use be much greater than it is now?

Any teen-ager can get drugs just by asking around at school. Since 1972 the U.S. government's National Institute on Drug Abuse has surveyed teen-age drug use ? which in every major category has doubled, tripled, or quadrupled.

We have lost the Constitution and its Bill of Rights, innocent people have been sentenced to life imprisonment on the say-so of admitted drug dealers seeking reduced sentences, the drug business has been taken from legitimate pharmaceutical companies and turned over to criminal gangs, the politicians have played with hundreds of billions of dollars of our money. And all this has led to greater drug use ? not less.

Protection

Misconception No. 4: "The government keeps the environment clean."

A 1999 Boston Globe investigation concluded that the U.S. government is the worst polluter in America. And most of the rest of pollution occurs on government property ? in government lakes and rivers, and on government land.

Private owners worry about the future value of their property, so they're careful not to pollute their own assets. But the future is of no concern when they use government property. So there's tremendous pollution on government property, where bureaucrats have no personal stake in protecting it.

The best answer for pollution is to get as much property out of the hands of government as possible. Then the remaining pollution problems shouldn't require the oppressive regulatory nightmare being imposed today by politicians, bureaucrats and social reformers.

Misconception No. 3: "Government regulation saves lives by making medicines safe."

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has routinely kept life-saving medicines off the market for years until its administrators were positive they couldn't be held responsible for a single death.

Robert Goldberg of Brandeis University has estimated that FDA delays in approving drugs already used safely in other countries have cost at least 200,000 American lives over the past 30 years. These delays killed Alzheimer patients who weren't allowed to take THA, people with high blood pressure who couldn't get beta-blockers, kidney-cancer patients deprived of Interleukin-2, and AIDS patients who died waiting for AZT.

For true safety, we rely on doctors, research labs, insurance companies and other private agencies to determine what's appropriate for each individual, not what is politically safe for the regulators. Doctors sometimes make mistakes, but they don't make decisions on a political basis.

Why we tolerate government

Misconception No. 2: "We have to tolerate the bad things government does in exchange for the protection it provides against violence ? domestic and foreign."

Far from protecting us from violence, the government seems to be the foremost cause of it. Its drug war has spawned inner-city chaos and gang warfare, and its SWAT teams kill innocent people during mistaken drug raids. Government doesn't protect our children in the schools, it doesn't protect adults on the streets, and depending on 911 for protection makes as much sense as relying on the lottery for your income.

Overseas it is our government that's roaming the world stirring up trouble. It has killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqi adults and children by forcibly preventing them from getting food and medicines. It subsidized the Afghan "freedom fighters" in the 1980s, but now claims those same "freedom fighters" are a main source of terrorism in the world. It bombed innocent people in Serbia to aid the Albanians ? the same Albanians it now wants NATO to attack.

Some protection. No wonder the U.S. is the main target of terrorists.

Here it comes ...

And by far the No. 1 misconception about government issssss ...

Misconception No. 1: "The next government program will work the way its sponsors promise."

The government's war on poverty has transformed poverty from a short-term misfortune into a career choice. Its war on drugs has escalated drug use. Medicare has made health care more expensive and less accessible for senior citizens. Nothing the politicians have enacted has turned out as promised, and most programs have made matters worse.

So do you really believe George Bush's voucher program will make education better ? or his "faith-based" charity plan will make welfare work? Do you think the Democrats' prescription-drug program will make medicines easier to obtain? Or John McCain's campaign-finance bill will make politics cleaner?

If you believe any of that, consider buying a marvelous bridge I own in Brooklyn.

The solution to today's problems isn't to pass more government programs ? or to reform government programs ? or to get better people to manage them. The answer is to end completely all these government programs that have caused so much misery, waste, corruption and tyranny. Get government entirely out of health care, education, welfare, drugs, policing the world, and anything else not specifically authorized in the Constitution.

The worst misconception of all is the idea that government will give you what you want.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: Top 10 misconceptions about government [Re: silversoul7]
    #3245914 - 10/12/04 01:53 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

A main recipient of highway funds is Pennsylvania. Why Pennsylvania? Because the chairman of the House Transportation Committee is Bud Shuster of Pennsylvania.




Actually.....
now, taking aside first of all how shittily poor my state SPENDS money for highways (some of the worst in the nation)..

Pennsylvania does have.. now I don't have the exact numbers.. but a lot of the interstate travel in this nation, passes through Pennsylvania.
Any goods needing to move in or out of the Northeast drive through Pennsylvania.
We've got a shitton of interstate highways in this state.. a shitton.
That's a large reason for that particular fact.. federal money is for states with interstate highways. That's why Hawaii has interstates.

Alabama doesn't get nearly as much because they've hardly got any interstate highways. In fact, I lived there for 3 years (hope to god i move back soon, Alabama > Pennsylvania), and I only ever was on 1.. I-65. Here in PA, to get ANYWHERE you'll probably take an interstate.


--------------------
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OfflineJesusChrist
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Re: Top 10 misconceptions about government [Re: silversoul7]
    #3247601 - 10/12/04 04:31 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I can't say that I disagree with any of that. Government tends to cause more problems than it cures. I think that interstate highways are needed, but they do turn into corrupt little boondoggles.

Having an advanced highway system has helped commerce in this country. Trucks go coast to coast and from Canada to the Mexican border every day. If you had a large enough tank of gass, you could go from the Great Lakes and the Motor City of Detroit all the way down to the Port of Miami uninterrupted. It is a straight shot. I think that has helped commerce.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Top 10 misconceptions about government [Re: silversoul7]
    #3247663 - 10/12/04 04:58 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Doctors sometimes make mistakes, but they don't make decisions on a political basis.

My dad works at a semi-private cancer research facility/clinic. Politics has everything to do with which research projects are promoted, what equipment is purchased, who's hired, etc. Everything is run by money and politics, and taking government out of it isn't going to alter human nature.

Businesses and private organizations are just as corrupt as the government.

I can certainly agree that these are all fine examples of government corruption, but stripping the government of its power isn't going to make it go away. You've got to find out how to stop people from being greedy.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Top 10 misconceptions about government [Re: Phluck]
    #3247739 - 10/12/04 05:26 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Aren't you in CANADA, the bastion of medical freedom?


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Top 10 misconceptions about government [Re: Phluck]
    #3247958 - 10/12/04 06:26 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
Doctors sometimes make mistakes, but they don't make decisions on a political basis.

My dad works at a semi-private cancer research facility/clinic. Politics has everything to do with which research projects are promoted, what equipment is purchased, who's hired, etc. Everything is run by money and politics, and taking government out of it isn't going to alter human nature.



Considering you're from Canada, that doesn't surprise me. However, under a free-market health care system, medicine and politics aren't so intimately interwoven(note: the corrupt HMO system in America was created by government legislation, so that couldn't accurately be called a "free market" system).

Quote:

Businesses and private organizations are just as corrupt as the government.



I don't doubt it. However, businesses and private organizations, at least in a free market, have to compete for your dollar, so even if their motives are completely selfish, it still ends up benefitting the consumer.

Quote:

I can certainly agree that these are all fine examples of government corruption, but stripping the government of its power isn't going to make it go away. You've got to find out how to stop people from being greedy.



Or how about just limiting the amount of power and control which greedy people can gain(i.e. Constitutionaly limited government)?


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Top 10 misconceptions about government [Re: silversoul7]
    #3248877 - 10/12/04 09:45 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Considering you're from Canada, that doesn't surprise me. However, under a free-market health care system, medicine and politics aren't so intimately interwoven(note: the corrupt HMO system in America was created by government legislation, so that couldn't accurately be called a "free market" system).

When I say politics, I'm not referring to the government. I'm referring to how the place is run, how people gather funding through private and public grants, and how people interact with one another, and how people are fighting for their own power and gain throughout the organization. The federal government has little or nothing to do with this.

I don't doubt it. However, businesses and private organizations, at least in a free market, have to compete for your dollar, so even if their motives are completely selfish, it still ends up benefitting the consumer.

I don't see why reducing the amount of control the government has over the market is going to stop corporations from forming monopolies and pushing their influence around. The major media is already owned by a small number of enormous companies, and that seems to be increasingly the case for many other industries.

Where's the real world evidence that a completely free market means equal opportunities for competition?

There are lots of ways in which corporate influence harms the consumer. Have the film or music industries created better products as they became more corporate? Is the media run more ethically with huge corporate control?

Assuming that the only thing that allows a company to thrive is how well they serve their customers is naive. Marketing and public image are key. It doesn't matter if you're selling the customer sugar water, if you can convince them that sugar water is cool, they'll pay premium prices on it. Even if there's a cheaper, and cleaner brand of sugar water available. Then there's ways of increasing profits by reducing costs. Many companies are known to eschew environmental regulations, even to consider fines as a yearly expense. If this happens now, how are you going to afford to investigate and enforce these laws with little or no government income? Put a private corporation in charge?

Or how about just limiting the amount of power and control which greedy people can gain(i.e. Constitutionaly limited government)?

That's just assuming that government is the only institution that can have too much power. Take the power out of their hands, and you don't get a utopia, you get a power vacuum.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Top 10 misconceptions about government [Re: Phluck]
    #3249196 - 10/12/04 10:43 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Don't forget that corporations are entities created with special privileges, rights and immunities granted by governments. In a truly free market, there would be no special treatment for people deciding to incorporate, it would merely be a business partnership and all responsibilities and liabilites would be held by those composing the corporations instead of them being shielded by corporations.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Top 10 misconceptions about government [Re: Phluck]
    #3249466 - 10/12/04 11:27 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
When I say politics, I'm not referring to the government. I'm referring to how the place is run, how people gather funding through private and public grants, and how people interact with one another, and how people are fighting for their own power and gain throughout the organization. The federal government has little or nothing to do with this.



Ok, fair enough. But I'm not sure that's what the author meant when he was talking about doctors and political decisions.

Quote:

I don't see why reducing the amount of control the government has over the market is going to stop corporations from forming monopolies and pushing their influence around. The major media is already owned by a small number of enormous companies, and that seems to be increasingly the case for many other industries.



Evolving already said with part of what I was going to say, but on top of that, I'd like to point out that television and radio are not even remotely free markets. Hell, the Federal Communist Commission decided that the First Ammendment didn't even apply to these media formats. However, in print and online media, there is nothing even resembling a media monopoly. This is because these are truly free markets(at least for the time being), where free speech still exists, and regulations are virtually nil.

Quote:

Where's the real world evidence that a completely free market means equal opportunities for competition?



I see the term "equal opportunity" get thrown around so much, but its meaning is so ambiguous and up for interpretation that I'm not sure how to answer that question. I will say that a completely free market means no government favoritism. Without being able to fall back on government subsidies or special exemptions, companies will have to compete with one another based purely on the merit of their products and how well they market them. This at least makes for a more even playing field among competitors. No company can rely on the government bailing them out when they're in trouble or subsidizing their product so they can artificially lower their prices while making profits off of taxpayer dollars. In a free market, companies would have to compete with one another fair and square, and this allows more room for newcomers to stake out a place in the market.

Quote:

There are lots of ways in which corporate influence harms the consumer. Have the film or music industries created better products as they became more corporate? Is the media run more ethically with huge corporate control?



Like Evolving said, corporations are a legal fiction created by the government, and are not synonymous with free markets.

Quote:

Assuming that the only thing that allows a company to thrive is how well they serve their customers is naive. Marketing and public image are key. It doesn't matter if you're selling the customer sugar water, if you can convince them that sugar water is cool, they'll pay premium prices on it. Even if there's a cheaper, and cleaner brand of sugar water available. Then there's ways of increasing profits by reducing costs. Many companies are known to eschew environmental regulations, even to consider fines as a yearly expense. If this happens now, how are you going to afford to investigate and enforce these laws with little or no government income? Put a private corporation in charge?



Hey, I'm well aware of the fact that a beer company might get higher sales because of the hot chick in their commercials, but supply and demand still reigns supreme. A product is worth whatever people are willing to pay for it. If it wasn't worth the price to them, they wouldn't pay it. Now, you mention corporations writing off fines as yearly expenses. There are two reasons why that couldn't happen under a libertarian government. First of all, libertarians would get rid of income tax, so there'd be nothing to write off. Second, tax writeoffs=corporate welfare, and in case you didn't know, we're against that. Therefore, these corporations would not be able to dodge such fines so easily. It's amazing how much easier it is to enforce regulations when you have fewer of them.

Quote:

Or how about just limiting the amount of power and control which greedy people can gain(i.e. Constitutionaly limited government)?

That's just assuming that government is the only institution that can have too much power. Take the power out of their hands, and you don't get a utopia, you get a power vacuum.



Or self-government. The state's role is to ensure that people are free to govern themselves as they see fit.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: Top 10 misconceptions about government [Re: silversoul7]
    #3249862 - 10/13/04 12:34 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
link

Top 10 misconceptions about government

? 2001 WorldNetDaily.com

When people argue for or against some new government program, a lot of what's said is based on assumptions about government that just aren't so.

Direct from the home office in the slums of Washington, D.C., here are the top 10 misconceptions commonly peddled about government today. ...

The budget and Social Security

Misconception No. 10: "The federal budget has been in surplus since 1998."

Not so. The federal debt increased by $109 billion in 1998, by $127 billion in 1999, and by $23 billion in 2000.

The politicians are taking excess Social Security receipts and using them to cover spending on foreign aid, corporate welfare, and thousands of other boondoggles. Lumping Social Security in with the general budget transforms a budget deficit into a surplus – but the federal debt continues to get larger and will have to be repaid someday.




which leaves a grand total of. 7 and one half TRILLION.
this money can never be paid back.
something like 1/3 is suposedly owed to forgein banks.

im going to laugh when they ask for it back.


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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Re: Top 10 misconceptions about government [Re: silversoul7]
    #3250156 - 10/13/04 01:42 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I'd like to point out that television and radio are not even remotely free markets. Hell, the Federal Communist Commission decided that the First Ammendment didn't even apply to these media formats. However, in print and online media, there is nothing even resembling a media monopoly. This is because these are truly free markets(at least for the time being), where free speech still exists, and regulations are virtually nil.

While I agree that the FCC is completely ridiculous, what the hell does it do to regulate free speech in journalism? I know they regulate profanity and whatnot, but do they have anything whatsoever to do with corporate monopolies? I don't see any logic at all in this argument.

Then you say that in print media there is nothing resembling a monopoly. Who do you think own the major newspapers around the world? Sure, there are existing small media outlets, but they don't have the circulation or readership the larger companies do, and don't really have the chance to get it. Since the companies with the ability to distribute are all associated with major corporations, they are able to impose their own censorship by choosing what to promote and what to publish.

On the internet there are certain places that are seen far more than others. Sites like Google and Yahoo, as well as CNN.com, etc... all get more traffic than many of the smaller sites. The internet does provide us with a chance to match the big players in accessibility, but who knows how much it will change in the future?


Like Evolving said, corporations are a legal fiction created by the government, and are not synonymous with free markets.

Why not? Corporations exist now, and I'm not sure how you plan on destroying them. You could completely redefine the legal definition, but what's to stop them from operating outside the country?


In a free market, companies would have to compete with one another fair and square, and this allows more room for newcomers to stake out a place in the market.

I'm not seeing the logic here. First of all, what is it about a free market that would force the companies to compete fair and square? What's stopping things like corporate espionage, backroom dealings, and power grabbing? By privatising everything, and letting the corporations loose, you're basically handing the power to them. You act like corporate welfare is what's causing corporations to get too big and powerful, but I think that only plays a small part.

Then, how does this make it easier for small companies to get started?

A product is worth whatever people are willing to pay for it. If it wasn't worth the price to them, they wouldn't pay it.

Value can be manufactured and controlled. In a perfect world, what we can be most easily persuaded to buy would be sold by the most honest businesses, but I don't think this is the case in real life.

Now, you mention corporations writing off fines as yearly expenses.

That's not what I meant, I don't know if this is even possible, but I doubt it is. What I meant was, they factor them into their budget, they figure out how much they can get away with and break even. My comment had nothing to do with taxes.

Sorry if I rambled, I'm half asleep.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Offlinewutang
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Re: Top 10 misconceptions about government [Re: Phluck]
    #7189309 - 07/17/07 07:53 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

DOWN WITH THE FUCKING GOVERNMENT
DOWN WITH BUSH
BURN THEM DOWN TO THE FUCKING GROUND
GET THE FUCK OUT OF IRAQ


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Top 10 misconceptions about government [Re: wutang]
    #7189515 - 07/17/07 08:40 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Ban. Just ban it. It has no redeeming social value and probably never will.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Top 10 misconceptions about government [Re: silversoul7]
    #7189544 - 07/17/07 08:46 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

This thread has been closed.

Reason:
If you're going to indulge in necroposting, at least bring something of substance to the table.



Phred


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