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Offlinescatmanrav
Brainy Smurf

Registered: 05/08/04
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Bubbling water through lime
    #3233481 - 10/08/04 04:53 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Someone mentioned on another post that bubbling water through lime removes carbon dioxide. What I've found from what little I could is that water contains a balance of lime and carbon dioxide and if you throw off the balence of lime then the water will absorb more carbon dioxide.

Anyone know the scientifics behind this? Am I right it what I understand of it? Was tough to comprehend what I found on it. If this is true though and this removes carbon dioxide from air in anyway couldn't this be benificial to us? For fresh air you could have a small pump in your chamber bubbling into lime water, removing co2.

A couple problems I could see with this:

1) I could have some information or understanding of this concept completly wrong :smile:

2) If the water absorbs the co2 to balance it with the lime perhaps it could become saturated with co2 quickly

3) If mushies need more then just the co2 removed and need all the other gases in our air or if they need oxygen but use it up, removing co2 would create oxygen..

For small chambers this might not be so space efficient but I have room in mine for a pump and a jar filled with water+lime (or a few for that matter) however I'm afraid they don't get enough air. They do ok but perhaps this will help? Would love any thoughts into this..


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineMushBus
CURVEBALL MASTER

Registered: 09/09/04
Posts: 178
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
Re: Bubbling water through lime [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3233512 - 10/08/04 05:03 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

"Lime is simply CaO, which when added to water, reacts . with the water to form dissolved Ca2+ and (OH)- ions (CaO + H2O -. Ca2+ + 2OH-). If you add sufficient lime to the water, you will reach . a point at which the solution becomes "saturated" with the dissolved species and no more will dissolve. At this point, you will begin. forming solid Ca(OH)2. Not much Ca(OH)2 can dissolve in water, so it doesn't take much to saturate the solution. (If you start with "slacked lime" which is CaO that has already been reacted with water to form Ca(OH)2, then somewhat more will dissolve.) .

When you introduce CO2 to the system, some of the CO2 dissolves in the water. The dissolved CO2 also reacts with water to form several other dissolved species ( (CO3)2-, HCO3-, H2CO3). At some point, the carbon-bearing species will reach a sufficient concentration such that the solution will reach saturation with respect to CaCO3, which is the predominant mineral in limestone, and the compound that makes up most seashells.

That "saturation" concentration places a limit on the amount of CO2 that can be in solution (in any form). Although there are numerous intermediate reactions involved, the overall net reaction for the precipitation of CaCO3 from a solution saturated with Ca(OH)2 can be written as: CO2(gas) + Ca(OH)2(solid) <--> CaCO3(solid) + H2O(liquid) .

By using thermodynamics, one can calculate exactly how much CO2 can be present in a gas that is in equilibrium with both Ca(OH)2 and CaCO3. To do this, one calculates the free energy change of the above reaction. Using the data in my wife's freshman chem book (I'm at home and don't have access to the better compilations of thermodynamic data I have at work), I find that the free energy change at 25deg C and 1 bar pressure is -74.8kJ for one mole of Ca(OH)2 reacted. The free energy change, delta-G, of a reaction and the equilibrium constant, K, for any reaction are related by: delta-G = -R*T*ln(K) where R is a constant of nature known as the gas constant and T is the temperature measured in Kelvins. For this reaction, K = [CaCO3][H2O]/P(CO2)[Ca(OH)2], where the brackets mean "the . concentration of", and P(CO2) is the partial pressure of CO2 in the gas. (More properly, the equilibrium constant is defined in terms of "activities" and "fugacities", which are thermodynamic niceities that we can ignore for this calculation).

The concentration of a pure solid is by definition always = 1, and since the solution in this case is very dilute, we can assume that the concentration of water is also nearly 1 (i.e., it's almost pure water) in this case, we find that: 74,800 = 8.31 * 298.15 * ln(1/P(CO2)) -30.2 = ln (P(CO2) P(CO2) = 7.74x10^-14 The partial pressure of a gas in a mixture is simply the portion of the total pressure that is due to that gas. At 1 bar total pressure, then, the amount of CO2 in a gas in equilibrium with both Ca(OH)2 and CaCO3 is only one part in 1/(7.74x10^-14) = 1 part in ~1.3x10^13. a very tiny quantity.

You probably won't be able to achieve such low levels of CO2, however. . Because none of the chamical reactions involved happen . instantaneously. What you want to do to maximize the surface areas of . all the reactants involved and to maximize the amount of time that the reactants are in contact with one another. James' idea of using a. "bubbler" of some sort to break up your gas stream into a lot f small. bubbles in the limewater solution is a good one; this will greatly. increase the surface area of the gas in contact with the water. In addition, you want the lime to be finely divided, because for each atom of Ca that is removed from solution as CaCO3, another atom of Ca. must be provided to the solution by dissolving a bit of Ca(OH)2. Increasing the surface area of the solid will increase the rate at which the Ca(OH)2 can dissolve (the rate is proportional to the surface area)"

I would think you would still havto introduce fresh o2.


Edited by MushBus (10/08/04 05:07 PM)


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Offlinescatmanrav
Brainy Smurf

Registered: 05/08/04
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Re: Bubbling water through lime [Re: MushBus]
    #3233777 - 10/08/04 05:59 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I did a search on google too :smile: I read all that crap and I posted what I gathered from that. Quite hard for me to follow most of that. I am stoned but even on a sober mind that seems to blow it a bit.

I think you might be right..the idea just came to me and I was thinking as I typed the problems and thats what I thought of for number 3. I'm not positive though so I still want to hear whats thought by everyone (who cares anyway).


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineMushBus
CURVEBALL MASTER

Registered: 09/09/04
Posts: 178
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
Re: Bubbling water through lime [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3235617 - 10/09/04 04:44 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

yeah i dont know if anyone else cares, lol

but i really like the idea of a totally sealed growing chamber which a c02 absorbant would be able to offer.

I would think it would be easier to control most of the growing factors with a sealed chamber.

maybe this should goto the advanced section?


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Offlinescatmanrav
Brainy Smurf

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,483
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Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Bubbling water through lime [Re: MushBus]
    #3236945 - 10/09/04 06:11 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Well either not much knowledge is known on the subject or its such a stupid idea no one's going to bother to reply :smile:


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineEstario
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Registered: 05/01/08
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Re: Bubbling water through lime [Re: scatmanrav]
    #11661338 - 12/16/09 12:36 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

scatmanrav said:
Well either not much knowledge is known on the subject or its such a stupid idea no one's going to bother to reply :smile:



I know the topic is old, but I am doing a research on CO2 absorption now and soon I will post a pictorial on how to remove carbon dioxide from the fruiting chamber.
Here is an interesting wikipedia link talking about soda lime.
Quote:

Soda lime is a mixture of chemicals, used in granular form in closed breathing environments, such as general anaesthesia, submarines, rebreathers and recompression chambers, to remove carbon dioxide from breathing gases to prevent CO2 retention and carbon dioxide poisoning.[1][2]



This is exactly what I strive to make.


--------------------
All Of RR's Notes On Mushroom Cultivation Forum - a must read
:alert: Everything I post is completely fictitious, and for your amusement only. All the pictures I post are either photoshopped or ripped from the internet. Whenever i trade for spores it is for examining the spores under microscopes to see their characteristics. There is no reason why I would ever want to nor will I grow mushrooms containing psilocybin. :alert:


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Offlineboomsaway
F N G


Registered: 12/25/08
Posts: 124
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
Re: Bubbling water through lime [Re: Estario]
    #11661470 - 12/16/09 01:06 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

<MushBus: but i really like the idea of a totally sealed growing chamber which a c02 absorbant would be able to offer.>

i dont think a sealed fruiting chamber is a good idea.

fungus are more like animals than plants, even with plants its not good to have too high CO2 levels (not sure, but i think 3000ppm is best)

i mean you could try an O2 enriched enviroment, but you would still have to remove CO2 from the container.

and even then, im not sure its just O2 that they need.

we breathe O2 right? but if thats all we could breathe, we'd die...

22% O2 in air right? like 70% N so... im gonna stick with good FAE

BTW.... i care enough to post....heh

EDIT: HAHA, just noticed that post is 5 years old...


--------------------
So, smoking pot = "child endangerment." Storming a home with guns, then firing bullets into the family pets as a child looks on = necessary police procedures to ensure everyone's safety.  -Radley Balko


Edited by boomsaway (12/16/09 01:08 PM)


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