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Invisible2Experimental
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Registered: 01/15/03
Posts: 18,073
Defense Attornyes
    #3231648 - 10/08/04 02:57 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I wonder how often they know the TRUTH...

how many deffense lawyers actually think their client is innocent, and if the defendant admits to the crime , will they defend it the same? what if there is no way to present a case with out the lawyers knowing the exact details to build the counter plot, which would involve knowing the crime

has a lawyer ever turned on a client after finding the truth( maybe through conspiracy/indirectly?) hmm, too much law and order


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Defense Attornyes [Re: 2Experimental]
    #3231659 - 10/08/04 03:03 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Ahem. 

Let me elucidate on your poor mind.  :grin:

My client is ALWAYS innocent.  :grin:

However, there have been occasions that he hasn't been as innocent as I first was led to believe.  hehe.

There's always an out.  First, if he tells me, and maintains that initial story, that he is innocent, I will present that to the court to my utmost.  Of course, it will fail.  This is not really a country of "not guilty until proven guilty."  That's a bunch of shit.

Second, if he tells me he is innocent and then later says he is guilty, then we get the best deal possible from the D.A.  The sooner you plea bargain, the better.  Plus, you look for things in their childhood, etc., with which to obtain the court's good side.  Um, the court (judge) doesn't often have a good side.  But I once got a year knocked off a sentence by going back repeatedly and pounding on the fact that this 19-year old girl had a really bad childhood, which she did.

I've turned on a client, but without the client's knowledge.  Let's just say that when you find out that your client REALLY DOES abuse his children, you're not going to try too hard to get custody or visitation for him, ya know???


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleOldSpice Happy Birthday
Geritol Breath...
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Re: Defense Attornyes [Re: Frog]
    #3231700 - 10/08/04 03:28 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I was charged with assault by my girlfriend once ....she basically just wanted me chunked in jail because she was mad at me
I hired a woman lawyer because im not stupid.
The DA told her they had her in the back room ready to testify :shocked:
She was asleep back in the hotel room i had rented so i told my lawyer to tell them to bring it on and bring her out ...
charges were dropped pretty quick
My lawyer knew i was innocent anyway...Damn she was cute but she was married... :frown:


--------------------
So hard to be ....WDWGFH?
Texas is humongus compared to France
Our Gair, who art in Texas,
Paw Paw be thy Name....
My friends are thirsty


You never see a motorcycle parked outside a Psychiatrist office:biker:


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Defense Attornyes [Re: OldSpice]
    #3231722 - 10/08/04 03:42 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Last year, I put out a yellow pages ad that said "Attorney for Men" because of the reason that your post presents.  In general, women will lie in the most devious of ways.  I would rather go without the money I could earn from half the population than deal with that shit. 

Some guy called me from that ad, asking me if family law was different for men than it was for women.  I said no, I just didn't want to work for women.  :grin:

Good for you on how it all turned out.  You sound smart, and you had a smart attorney, too.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleOldSpice Happy Birthday
Geritol Breath...
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Posts: 59,080
Loc: Crankytown, Texas
Re: Defense Attornyes [Re: OldSpice]
    #3231731 - 10/08/04 03:48 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Oh i forgot to add that i was at her house about to go back up to the courtroom when she called me saying shit was dropped....
That was on 9-11 and we watched the second plane hit the World trade center tower so ill never forget that day


--------------------
So hard to be ....WDWGFH?
Texas is humongus compared to France
Our Gair, who art in Texas,
Paw Paw be thy Name....
My friends are thirsty


You never see a motorcycle parked outside a Psychiatrist office:biker:


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Offlinediscoabe
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Re: Defense Attornyes [Re: OldSpice]
    #3231819 - 10/08/04 04:40 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Lawyers can't legally turn on their clients. For one, it's part of the client-attorney privledge and second it's not ethical, hense the cannons of ethics. However, there is no way I would defend a child abuser.


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InvisibleOldSpice Happy Birthday
Geritol Breath...
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Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 59,080
Loc: Crankytown, Texas
Re: Defense Attornyes [Re: Frog]
    #3231884 - 10/08/04 05:27 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah thats pretty cool and smart of you to run a ad like that...

Black shadows dance beyond the neon glow
There's rumours in your head that just won't let go
They hold on so tight, it makes your blood run cold
?Nailed as the night? trying to save your soul
Don't ?...? pray, it's just a cry from the street


--------------------
So hard to be ....WDWGFH?
Texas is humongus compared to France
Our Gair, who art in Texas,
Paw Paw be thy Name....
My friends are thirsty


You never see a motorcycle parked outside a Psychiatrist office:biker:


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Offlinehound
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Re: Defense Attornyes [Re: 2Experimental]
    #3232022 - 10/08/04 07:35 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

If I was a lawyer I would have no problems at all defending someone who I knew to be guilty, especialy if a much larger constitutional issue was at stake.

Lets say a person gets busted on evidence that was obtained through an illegal search. In a case like this the clients guilt should no longer make a difference to his /her attorney and the case must be fought to the fullest to protect the constitution.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Defense Attornyes [Re: discoabe]
    #3232426 - 10/08/04 11:29 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

discoabe said:
Lawyers can't legally turn on their clients. For one, it's part of the client-attorney privledge and second it's not ethical, hense the cannons of ethics. However, there is no way I would defend a child abuser.




There's ways of turning on your client without turning on your client. Also, it depends on whether someone else will be hurt by my intervention in getting him/her what they want. Should someone who just got busted for his 4th DUI in 2 years be out on the street?

But there are other reasons to defend people, too, besides getting them off. LIke someone else said, there are sometimes important constitutional rights at issue. Police lie, and I hate to see them get away with that shit. Sometimes the time they have to serve is just too long.

Like once I defended a 19- or 20-year old girl for shoplifting $50 worth of sweat pants. She had been tackled by the security guard when she was running across the parking lot, and when he knocked her to the ground, she initially fought back because she didn't know who it was.

Because she fought back with the security guard, a midemeanor was bumped up to a felony and she was looking at 6 years in prison, over a few pairs of sweat pants. And she was guilty.

When I came into the case, the public defender had gotten the # of years down to 4. It took 3 appearances, but I was able to get the judge to knock one more year off.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineKidShelleen
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Registered: 09/20/04
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Re: Defense Attornyes [Re: 2Experimental]
    #3232439 - 10/08/04 11:32 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Just because you actually committed the crime doesn't mean you are guilty. Guilt is a legal concept. To be guilty, the government needs to PROVE you committed the crime. And just because you are not guilty doesn't mean you are innocent. All it means is the government failed to prove its case in a system that intentionally stacks the deck against the government. This is why both the criminal and civil juries in the OJ case were correct and consistent with each other. The criminal jury concluded that the government failed to prove the case so OJ is not guilty. The civil jury, which is not concerned with deciding guilt, concluded that OJ actually did the bad act, so he was liable for the damages. They are different standards.

So even if a criminal defense attorney is certain that their client actually committed the crime, they can still put the government to the test of proving it. That is the defense attorney's function in our justice system. It is not their job to defend the innocent. It is their job to require the government to prove guilt.

KS


--------------------
"Who would be free themselves must strike the blow" -Lord Byron


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Defense Attornyes [Re: KidShelleen]
    #3242374 - 10/11/04 11:40 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

And that's why you find attorneys not putting their clients on the stand.  Not supposed to lie.  :grin:

If you put your client on the stand, knowing he did it, and knowing he's going to lie, then it's an ethical violation.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineTheShroomHermit
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Re: Defense Attornyes [Re: 2Experimental]
    #3243345 - 10/11/04 03:56 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

In theory, the two sides argue the case and the truth prevails. This is the philosophy of how our judicial system works. But in practise...


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Defense Attornyes [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #3243368 - 10/11/04 04:03 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

No, I disagree. I have been in court a lot. I don't ever lie. I would say that the truth tends to prevail. I rarely see liars win. The judges are pretty smart, and they see through the bull pretty well.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleOldSpice Happy Birthday
Geritol Breath...
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Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 59,080
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Re: Defense Attornyes [Re: Frog]
    #3243564 - 10/11/04 04:49 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Did you catch that Attourneys was mispelled in this thread?


--------------------
So hard to be ....WDWGFH?
Texas is humongus compared to France
Our Gair, who art in Texas,
Paw Paw be thy Name....
My friends are thirsty


You never see a motorcycle parked outside a Psychiatrist office:biker:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
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