Home | Community | Message Board


Avalon Magic Plants
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
Anonymous

growth of government continues in philly
    #3229073 - 10/07/04 06:41 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Philadelphia Considering Wireless Internet for All, With Transmitters Throughout City

PHILADELPHIA (AP) -- Forget finding an Internet cafe. For less than what it costs to build a small library, city officials believe they can turn all 135 square miles of Philadelphia into the world's largest wireless Internet hot spot.

The ambitious plan, now under discussion, would involve placing thousands of small transmitters around the city -- probably atop lampposts. Each of these wireless hot spots would be capable of communicating with the Wi-Fi network cards that now come standard with many computers.

Once complete, the $10 million network would deliver broadband Internet almost anywhere radio waves can travel -- including poor neighborhoods where high-speed Internet access is now rare.

The city would likely offer the service either for free, or at costs far lower than the $35 to $60 a month charged for broadband delivered over telephone and cable TV lines, said the city's chief information officer, Dianah Neff.

"If you're out on your front porch with a laptop, you could dial in, register at no charge, and be able to access a high speed connection," Neff said. "It's a technology whose time is here."

If the plan becomes a reality, Philadelphia would leap to the forefront of a growing number of cities already offering or mulling a wireless broadband network for their residents, workers and guests.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/040901/wireless_cities_10.html


pfffffffft. stuff like this leads me to wonder what isn't considered cause for government spending these days?

this just in: city of philadelphia offers "free" 500 channel satellite tv service throughout city...


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: growth of government continues in philly [Re: ]
    #3229091 - 10/07/04 06:43 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I can't wait to see their estimated costs skyrocket. I bet if they build it they will sell it to a private company within 5 years.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineunbeliever
Yo Daddy!
 User Gallery
Registered: 05/22/04
Posts: 5,158
Loc: Gallifrey
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: growth of government continues in philly [Re: ]
    #3229098 - 10/07/04 06:44 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Why do you hate the internet?


(kidding)


I can see how that would really chap the ass of a libertarian though. Meanwhile 17 year old guys with raging hormones masturbate furiously to city-wide streaming porn.

That said, if we could stop throwing away billions of dollars on tax cuts for the wealthy, pointless wars based on lies and corporate welfare, then relatively small social benefits such as this would be a small foot note in spending.


--------------------
Happiness is a warm gun...


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleAntiMeme
yankee doodledandy
Registered: 08/11/04
Posts: 208
Re: growth of government continues in philly [Re: ]
    #3229099 - 10/07/04 06:44 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Even the poor should have access to information.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: growth of government continues in philly [Re: AntiMeme]
    #3229125 - 10/07/04 06:48 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

and it is up to your rightous ass to force other people to provide them with free high-speed internet?

please. make a donation if you want.

you are aware that poor people (real ones that is) don't typically own computers, right?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleAntiMeme
yankee doodledandy
Registered: 08/11/04
Posts: 208
Re: growth of government continues in philly [Re: ]
    #3229159 - 10/07/04 06:53 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Well, they'll have to give them computers once the wireless network is up, or it'll be a waste of resources..


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: growth of government continues in philly [Re: AntiMeme]
    #3229213 - 10/07/04 07:02 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

who will have to give them?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleAntiMeme
yankee doodledandy
Registered: 08/11/04
Posts: 208
Re: growth of government continues in philly [Re: ]
    #3229283 - 10/07/04 07:20 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

There are some things that's worth cooperating on. Infrastructure being one of them.

I like the Free State project. All you libertarians could move to New Hampshire and live out your wet dream egoistic society there.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: growth of government continues in philly [Re: AntiMeme]
    #3229361 - 10/07/04 07:39 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

There are some things that's worth cooperating on.

i'm glad you feel that way. i agree. is it right to force some people to subsidize internet service for other people?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinecb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Loc: florida
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: growth of government continues in philly [Re: ]
    #3229377 - 10/07/04 07:43 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I believe it is.


--------------------
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: growth of government continues in philly [Re: cb9fl]
    #3229390 - 10/07/04 07:45 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

so you won't mind if i come to your house to seize some of your possessions so that i can pay my cable bill this month?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleAntiMeme
yankee doodledandy
Registered: 08/11/04
Posts: 208
Re: growth of government continues in philly [Re: ]
    #3229441 - 10/07/04 07:59 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Is it right to force some people to subsidize roads for other people?


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: growth of government continues in philly [Re: AntiMeme]
    #3229495 - 10/07/04 08:12 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

AntiMeme said:
Is it right to force some people to subsidize roads for other people?



No.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: growth of government continues in philly [Re: AntiMeme]
    #3229567 - 10/07/04 08:25 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

AntiMeme said:
Even the poor should have access to information.



To paraphrase Bastiat, you see only that which is seen, not that which is unseen. What you can physically see is that everyone in the city(with a computer with the required parts...) will now be able to access the internet from all over Philly. What you do NOT see is that had the money to build such infrastructure not been stolen from citizens of all classes, that money, via the wonders of capitalism, would have been allocated to private enterprises actively working to meet some consumer demand or another. This would have led to quite a bit of job creation for these poor and overall economic improvement for the city -- I think we can agree they need jobs more than they need broadband internet access. Nice to see such idiotic theft in the 'city of brotherly love.'


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: growth of government continues in philly [Re: AntiMeme]
    #3229638 - 10/07/04 08:37 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Is it right to force some people to subsidize roads for other people?

yep. roads should be paid for by user fees.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleAntiMeme
yankee doodledandy
Registered: 08/11/04
Posts: 208
Re: growth of government continues in philly [Re: ]
    #3229703 - 10/07/04 08:48 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Heh. Well, come to think of it, I happen to agree with that. Bad example :smile:


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: growth of government continues in philly [Re: AntiMeme]
    #3230890 - 10/07/04 11:55 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

The thought of information being free to everyone is a great dream. In practice I think it will be a disaster.

I am a big fan of the public library. No doubt though that it imposes costs on people that don't use it.

If the government controlled my internet connection, I would probably be paying much more indirectly for internet than I pay now. I also would probably have more disruptions of service. Don't even talk to me about customer service issues. Waiting to have your connection installed and calling to complain would be similar to going to the BMV.

The worst part of it is, I conduct business on the net. When the governement internet goes down, where would I switch? Today if my connection is spotty and I am not satisfied I can switch providers. If the government starts giving away free connections they will gain a monopoly because nobody will be able to sell them anymore. Without competition, innovation and creativity will suffer.

The nightmare scenario is that the Government would then control the people's access to information. Compared to some of you shroomies I am not the biggest tin foil candidate, but I still really hate that idea.

The funny thing is, the internet is doing fine all by itself. Only the Government could monumentally fuck it up. Lets not give them the chance.

It is a great idea in dreamland. Reality would be a much different picture. The dream could quickly become a nightmare.


--------------------
Tastes just like chicken


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleRavus
Not an EggshellWalker
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
Re: growth of government continues in philly [Re: ]
    #3231152 - 10/08/04 12:39 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Are libertarians also against tax-payer funded libraries?

Assuming this doesn't cost relatively too much, it wouldn't seem too different to me than a free public library. Perhaps the free internet will help educate and provide information to the people

Not that I agree with it, but if it's going to happen anyway at least there are pros, unlike many more gov't sponsored things that are much more expensive and I see no pros in at all


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: growth of government continues in philly [Re: Ravus]
    #3231231 - 10/08/04 12:50 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Are libertarians also against tax-payer funded libraries?

only if they're funded with tax dollars.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineTao
Village Genius

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
Loc: San Diego
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
Re: growth of government continues in philly [Re: ]
    #3231973 - 10/08/04 06:10 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

That's funny that you would bring this up because I've been thinking about this recently about how this is an example of libertarianism being too principled.

Right now I'm studying in a city for a year where, as usual, one company has a monopoly on high speed internet connections. now if this city just set up some of those wi-fi hotspots, it would cost so much less than everyone buying these over-priced internet connections. I mean, $10 million is a drop in the fuckin pan. Philadephia has 1.5 million people. lets say just 25 percent use the internet. thats the equivalent of paying less than one months service $26 per person (i know this includes kids, but you get my basic point)! i guess people like comcast can't offer this because they're dealing with already existing infrastrucutre--i.e. cable lines. whereas you need the public to decide if they want to put these hotspots on public land.

and I know you were joking, but this is nothing like offering satellite tv. satellite tv requires, constant work and creation on part of the networks. this is just setting up a bit of infrastructure and then letting it be, apart from occasional maintenance work. im sorry, but i wholeheartedly agree with this policy and only wish that the city i end up in has it too. in the scheme of things, this is an awesome infrastructural service that will last for years to come and its relatively dirt cheap.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* US aid continues to flow to Colombian murderers EchoVortex 380 1 11/13/03 12:49 AM
by Evolving
* Government Hits $6.4 Trillion Debt Limit
( 1 2 all )
Ellis Dee 1,788 23 02/26/03 11:22 AM
by pattern
* For those that want safety from the government beatnicknick 777 16 02/27/06 09:42 PM
by wilshire
* Government Growth, the Party of Lincoln, and George W. Bush Ancalagon 739 2 01/17/14 03:34 AM
by theindianrepublic
* Government Concedes Vaccine-Autism Case in Federal Court - Now What? Visionary Tools 1,010 8 04/10/08 11:07 AM
by Visionary Tools
* U.S. Government to Pay Nearly Half of Health Tab by 2014
RandalFlagg
405 1 02/26/05 01:39 AM
by JesusChrist
* On size of government, geographically... moog 560 2 06/28/05 02:44 PM
by lonestar2004
* The chaotic future of economical growth exclusive58 656 11 02/07/05 01:56 PM
by RandalFlagg

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Prisoner#1, Enlil
1,462 topic views. 0 members, 1 guests and 6 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Myco Supply
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2016 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.07 seconds spending 0.004 seconds on 18 queries.