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OfflineMixomatosis
great ape

Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
Loc: cipherland
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
This post is a pre-emptive strike
    #3220883 - 10/06/04 12:33 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

So is it going to have an effect if I tell you all to never post something I disagree with again? Are you going to continue posting ideas I brush off as inconsequential and stupid?

Is it any more effective to attack people who haven't attacked you? Avoiding a fight with people by.. fighting them? Is this any more intelligent than me demanding that none of you post logically flawed arguments again?


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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: This post is a pre-emptive strike [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3220950 - 10/06/04 12:46 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

SOmetimes they go hand in hand... so what can you say?

Whether you agree with my ideas or not is of no importance until I try to understand a question you may ask me about my logical construction of an argument.

If for some reason the user cannot supply a logical proof, the burden is upon THEM, right? Isnt that what we have learned... what we have been told time and again... by swami... and whoever else... maybe you! Lol. I dont know man. Even if you wanted people to not post illogical ideas, it wouldnt really make a difference... unless you decided to go to everyones house and lecture them fully on constructing logical arguments... and even then you would have to somehow convince them that it was more important for them respond to your posts with such care, and not do that to anyone elses posts.


So i think my final answer is... (X) No. It isnt anymore intelligent.


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OfflineFrog
Warrior
Female User Gallery

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 4,284
Loc: The Zero Point Field
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
Re: This post is a pre-emptive strike [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3220986 - 10/06/04 12:53 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Mixomatosis said:
So is it going to have an effect if I tell you all to never post something I disagree with again? Are you going to continue posting ideas I brush off as inconsequential and stupid?

Is it any more effective to attack people who haven't attacked you? Avoiding a fight with people by.. fighting them? Is this any more intelligent than me demanding that none of you post logically flawed arguments again?




The gloves are off.  *dances around Mix with arms raised up, looking for a way to deliver an upper hook and knock the bastard out*

You can say anything you want.  Just don't complain when the upper hook lands its blow.  :grin:


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Stranger
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Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,344
Loc: On the Border
Re: This post is a pre-emptive strike [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3221269 - 10/06/04 01:57 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Unfortunately, even the most logical person can deliver a flawed argument when their judgement becomes obscured by their personal prejudices and preferences. There is no avoiding it...EVERYONE finds themselves arguing a losing point at some time or other. It can't often be avoided.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Invisible2Experimental
Male User Gallery
Registered: 01/15/03
Posts: 18,073
Re: This post is a pre-emptive strike [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3221289 - 10/06/04 02:00 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

what you call logic I call ludacris... it is a matter of perspective.. with such an egotistical veiwpoint how can anyones ideas be unbiased? get used to it.. it is the information age, no one is wrong, because wrong can not exist itself


except within ANY system humans employ.. kinda ironic


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Stranger
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Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,344
Loc: On the Border
Re: This post is a pre-emptive strike [Re: 2Experimental]
    #3221318 - 10/06/04 02:05 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

"it is a matter of perspective"

No, logic is independant of viewpoint. Go to a University and take Philosophy 101...Introductory Logic. Refusing to acknowledge deductively valid ideas is a flaw in one's logic.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleMoonshoe
Blue Mantis
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Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 26,818
Loc: Iceland
Re: This post is a pre-emptive strike [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3222660 - 10/06/04 02:31 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

actually logic is not independent of viewpoint. Even my philosophy teacher admits that the whole idea of a valid logical point is only usefull at the beginning stages of philosophical exploration. later on it gets more metaphysical and we realize that their is nothing that can be called truly universal.

Once im done my work and stuff for the day ill come back and talk some more about this.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Stranger
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Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,344
Loc: On the Border
Re: This post is a pre-emptive strike [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3222869 - 10/06/04 03:13 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Well, of course there are logical points that are dependant on cultural perspective which would not be independant. Is there anyone around here with a degree or related degree to philosophy to add perspective to this notion?


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


Edited by Huehuecoyotl (10/06/04 03:22 PM)


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Offlinedeff
lovelightbliss
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Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 8,414
Loc: all this Flag
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Re: This post is a pre-emptive strike [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3222948 - 10/06/04 03:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

anyone want pie?

:smile:


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OfflineMAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)
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Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 7,276
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Re: This post is a pre-emptive strike [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3222951 - 10/06/04 03:34 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I think logic is independent of viewpoint. It gives you a result because it's an objective process. The problem is, results can be manipulated, therefore loosing its independence :wink:

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: This post is a pre-emptive strike [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3222967 - 10/06/04 03:37 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Humans are illogical creatures by default.  Some of us strive for logic, but it takes effort and as soon as we relax, we revert back to humble, illogical, emotional, biological people again. To demand that no illogical positions ever be put forth is futile and therefore itself illogical.

Besides, even illogical positions sometimes hold a grain of truth and if you carefully pick apart the ideas involved, you find that truth buried like a nugget of gold deep in human illogic. :thumbup:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflinePed
Interested In Your Brain
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Registered: 08/31/99
Posts: 5,494
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Re: This post is a pre-emptive strike [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3223105 - 10/06/04 04:20 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

>> Is it any more effective to attack people who haven't attacked you?

What if I told you we have solid intelligence which proves he has secret bunkers filled with weapons of mass destruction, even the materials to produce a nuclear bomb, and has definite working ties with Al Quaeda?


--------------------


:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace


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InvisibleMoonshoe
Blue Mantis
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Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 26,818
Loc: Iceland
Re: This post is a pre-emptive strike [Re: Ped]
    #3223121 - 10/06/04 04:25 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

the way my teacher defined it, oh shit lets see if i can remember, she said a logical truth is something that would be agreed upon by all rational beings. The problem is , their is literally NOTHING that can be agreed upon by ALL rational beings, unless you define rationality in a selective, ego centric way, and then you end up with reason or rationality being nothing more than 'thinking like me'

thus, at best, a logical truth is something that is agreed upon by everyone who thinks like me. Thus a logical truth is really just an individual belief, arrived at by an individual form of reasoning or thinking


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Everything I post is fiction.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: This post is a pre-emptive strike [Re: Ped]
    #3223191 - 10/06/04 04:44 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Ped said:
>> Is it any more effective to attack people who haven't attacked you?

What if I told you we have solid intelligence which proves he has secret bunkers filled with weapons of mass destruction, even the materials to produce a nuclear bomb, and has definite working ties with Al Quaeda?



That would only justify a pre-emptive strike if you could prove he had plans to attack us.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineAlan Stone
Corpus

Registered: 11/23/02
Posts: 986
Loc: Ten feet up
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: This post is a pre-emptive strike [Re: MAIA]
    #3223198 - 10/06/04 04:46 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I think logic is independent of viewpoint. It gives you a result because it's an objective process. The problem is, results can be manipulated, therefore loosing its independence




A focus on reason (where philosophy is concerned) is a typically Western thing. Regardless, logic isn't independant of viewpoint: even in logical statements one will use axioms.
Objectivity is an entirely different issue, but I suppose there is such a thing if you accept the axiom of undistorted perception - which I personally don't.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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OfflineZekebomb
sociophagus

Registered: 08/24/03
Posts: 1,164
Loc: BC province
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
Re: This post is a pre-emptive strike [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3241919 - 10/11/04 05:25 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said: thus, at best, a logical truth is something that is agreed upon by everyone who thinks like me.




a logical truth is something that is agreed upon by everyone who looks like me. This includes Justin Timberlake.


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