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Offlinetheriddler
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Casing - top layer colonization
    #3213335 - 10/04/04 12:53 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

OK, so a friend of mine just did her first couple of casings a couple weeks back, it was definately a learning experience ;p She's confused because on two different sites on the shroomery, there are two completely different ideas being put forth. On Ryche Hawks 50/50 casing tek (http://www.shroomery.org/index/par/7977), it says that the top casing layer should become colonized while fruiting. However, on the Apprentice Casing Tek (http://www.shroomery.org/index/par/7975) it says that when the top layer is becoming colonized, that means that one is experiencing overlay due to too high humidity or not enough air exchange.

SO, the question she wants to know is, should she not freak out of the top layer is becoming colonized after incubation and while the casings are in the fruiting chamber (she read the apprentice casing tek when this happened and proceeded to deep scratch)? Will the myclical colony harden on the top and not allow shrooms to push through?

I've seen plenty of pics which show the contrary and the top layer should become colonized, she just wants to be sure before engaging in another 2-quart-jar-per-casing endeavor.

Thanks ;D


Edited by theriddler (10/04/04 01:19 PM)


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OfflineHamurabi
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Re: Casing - top layer colonization [Re: theriddler]
    #3213369 - 10/04/04 01:05 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

the top casing layer must NOT get colonised completely because then you'll have overlay and that's a big problem!
You should see the mycelium just to break through the top casing layer in a few spots around, not to cover it!!!
take a look at the grow log and pictures forum to a few grow logs to see photos of casings that were just put in the fruiting chamber!


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Offlinetheriddler
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Re: Casing - top layer colonization [Re: theriddler]
    #3213413 - 10/04/04 01:20 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

So did this guy just get lucky?

Gonna sift through some grow logs now.


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OfflineHamurabi
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Re: Casing - top layer colonization [Re: theriddler]
    #3213423 - 10/04/04 01:24 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

sorry i have a big headache to understand your question, but count what i told you. also if u have overlay i dont think that it's possible to have fruits


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OfflineZeroArmy27
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Re: Casing - top layer colonization [Re: theriddler]
    #3213432 - 10/04/04 01:29 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

if you have overlay it is possible to get fruits... just not where the overlay is at.

the top layer can get colonized. what you don't want is a really thick, dense mat of mycelium on there or yellowing of the mycelium, these show overlay, which is dead mycelium that won't fruit.

if it continues to colonize the top casing layer, you just have really aggressive mycelium. cold shocking the casing will slow down the mycelium's colonizing "momentum. as long as it's fluffy or you have rhizomorphic spikes coming out of it, it should be alright.

do you have any pictures of that casing? it would help so the shroomerites can tell you if you're going to be alright or have to worry.


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Offlinetheriddler
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Re: Casing - top layer colonization [Re: theriddler]
    #3213612 - 10/04/04 02:15 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Thank you for the help :smile:

She already ditched the casings since she had 4 more jars colonizing already, figured it'd be easier to just start over.  So unfortunately she cannot provide pics.  She's pretty sure she had overlay, however, because upon misting, the water would collect in pools. 

She just wanted to be sure that ANY top casing layer colonization was ok.  After looking through some grow logs, I see what you're talking about in terms of mycellium.  Methinks the strain is rather agressive and should be cold-shocked, or perhaps her fruiting chamber's temp is too high (it floats between 78-80 degrees F).  However this is all about the learning experience, and every casing is going to be better, thanks for the input, she's looking forward to making more mistakes :smile:


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: Casing - top layer colonization [Re: theriddler]
    #3213625 - 10/04/04 02:17 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

When it comes to overlay on cubes not all of it is  that bad. The stuff that looks like a doormat is what you want to avoid. The stuff that looks like white pudding will pin. This is for those of us who are to lazy to patch.

turns to then to

I'm not saying it's a good thing, but a lot of people overly panic over it.  :grin:


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Offlinetheriddler
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Re: Casing - top layer colonization [Re: theriddler]
    #3213654 - 10/04/04 02:22 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

*rimshot* ;P

Thanks guys, all of it is really helpful info.


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Casing - top layer colonization [Re: ZeroArmy27]
    #3214001 - 10/04/04 03:33 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ZeroArmy27 said:
if you have overlay it is possible to get fruits... just not where the overlay is at.

the top layer can get colonized. what  you don't want is a really thick, dense mat of mycelium on there or yellowing of the mycelium, these show overlay, which is dead mycelium that won't fruit.



Again Overlay is not dead mycelium, it is very much alive FYI. You know some people confuse fully colonized casings with overlay , they really need to familiarize themselves with the difference. The biggest culprit of overlay conditions IMO is direct spraying of the casing resulting in matting the second influence on overlay would be initiating way to later resulting in vegetative growth on the surface rather than generative growth into the surface. Mushrooms are a hearty breed and can flourish in a wide range as long as certain parameters are met, the biggest issue in this growers eyes is the the timing of initiation which can save valuable time so you can be harvesting while others are still waiting for their shroomies to mature :wink: GL guys


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Casing - top layer colonization [Re: theriddler]
    #3214381 - 10/04/04 04:59 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Hyphae said it perfect. I got some overlaid casings right now..I'm taking pics to see how they come out but these are HIGHLY overlaid. To much spraying and to late initation (even though only 3 days after I cased them) played parts. It's been happening with my GT's, its been a tough strain for me to get to pin for some reason. My overlaid casings are finally pinning now (day 15 after putting them in the chamber the pins are about half inch tall, day 18 after making them into casings) and it's looking fairly even. One is very bad and I'm not so sure about the eveness on that one yet, its like 18 hours behind. Not to bad looking though. We shall see how bad this overlay thing really is :smile:

There is a big difference between colonized and overlaid though. The casing layer should be fully and evenly colonized when fruiting.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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Offline4hodmt
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Re: Casing - top layer colonization [Re: theriddler]
    #3214613 - 10/04/04 05:49 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

the mushrooms dont push through. they form as tight super small bulbs oont he casing, which enlongate, then darken and grow heads, then formt he pins u kno and love, before maturing onto mushrooms.

and there shoudl eb some growth, but not a mycellinial mat covering all of the casing area, patch and u shoudl not hav this problem.


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Casing - top layer colonization [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3214629 - 10/04/04 05:52 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

>The casing layer should be fully and evenly colonized when fruiting.


I tend to disagree, but this is just me.


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OfflineGr8fulJ420
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Re: Casing - top layer colonization [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3214892 - 10/04/04 06:59 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

scatman.... hate to hear that about your GTs. I have 4 small GT casings in my chamber right now. Cold shocked them over the weekend and hoping they'll start to pin quicker than your batch. My top layer looks to be very well colonized. I'd hate for it to overlay before pinning. My chamber is at 92% RH and around 73F.


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Offlinediscman1
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Re: Casing - top layer colonization [Re: theriddler]
    #3215060 - 10/04/04 07:43 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I'm going to be trying both casings and cakes on my first fruiting try, and this aspect has me the most worried.


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Casing - top layer colonization [Re: Anno]
    #3215169 - 10/04/04 08:01 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Anno said:
>The casing layer should be fully and evenly colonized when fruiting.


I tend to disagree, but this is just me.



How about a properly timed initiation will give you your best chance at an evenly colonized casing as long as those other factor are meet (level substrate and even casing thickness).
Or how about your initial initiation creates all your pin sites (knots) for all upcoming flushes.
Or by the time the myc switches from vegetative growth to generative growth it should ideally be evenly and fully colonized throughout the casings surface. :wink:


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"


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OfflineGr8fulJ420
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Re: Casing - top layer colonization [Re: hyphae]
    #3215649 - 10/04/04 09:54 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

What do you think of these casings? Coir/verm on top of rye. Put them into the fruiting chamber this weekend. Rye grain is fantastic!





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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Casing - top layer colonization [Re: Gr8fulJ420]
    #3215771 - 10/04/04 10:32 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

They're still in veg mode, Ideally they should look like this after 5-7 days in the fruiting chamber, maybe even slightly less colonized. Next time initiate sooner and compare :wink: Looks like you'll do alright too fine tuning your skills comes with time, for now you'll still do just fine. GL


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Casing - top layer colonization [Re: hyphae]
    #3215910 - 10/04/04 11:09 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

hyphae said:
They're still in veg mode, Ideally they should look like this after 5-7 days in the fruiting chamber, maybe even slightly less colonized. Next time initiate sooner and compare :wink: Looks like you'll do alright too fine tuning your skills comes with time, for now you'll still do just fine. GL




:thumbup:


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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Offlinediscman1
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Re: Casing - top layer colonization [Re: hyphae]
    #3217201 - 10/05/04 06:27 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

hyphae said:
Quote:

Anno said:
>The casing layer should be fully and evenly colonized when fruiting.


I tend to disagree, but this is just me.



How about a properly timed initiation will give you your best chance at an evenly colonized casing as long as those other factor are meet (level substrate and even casing thickness).
Or how about your initial initiation creates all your pin sites (knots) for all upcoming flushes.
Or by the time the myc switches from vegetative growth to generative growth it should ideally be evenly and fully colonized throughout the casings surface. :wink:




When you say "evenly and fully colonized throghout the casing surface", do you mean evenly visable on the top?

Since this is my first time, I plan on waiting 3 days for the Cambodian and 4 days for the Ecuador before putting them in my fruiting chamber.... I guess depending on what they look like.


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Casing - top layer colonization [Re: theriddler]
    #3217903 - 10/05/04 01:32 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

When fruiting I mean when the pinning starts, not when you start fruiting it, I read it and I worded it wrong. When the pinning starts IMO the casing layer should be evenly and fully colonized. And by fully I dont mean all white. These aren't perfect but theyre the best pics I have of what a casing should look like right around time for it to pin:


Discman, they should look something like above to be evenly and fully colonized. Not completly white but that is "fully" colonized (at least by the definition I'm using, though its not fully, its spotted). 3 Day's is good, thats uaully when I start fruting them. When patches come in about 5-6 places (generally 2-4 days after casing) I throw a little casing mix on top of all the white to cover it and let the rest of the myc catch up in the places it hasnt come up yet. Then immediatly after patching mist it well and put it in the fruiting chamber. So when it goes in you shouldnt see any myc, just a casing layer at near saturation. In a few days you should see even myc coverage come in and then 3-10 days later you should have even and full coverage and then primodia should be forming and pins 1-3 days after.

Timing is important as to when you put it in so you have just the right amount of myc on the surface when pinning needs to start. If you wait to long in the incubator you could end up with a little to much. Even before you get the timing down though you'll do fine. I dont have it down so hot yet but I still manage pretty good flushes.

Good luck with your GT's, could just be my substrain too..the one I coldshocked though pinned quickly..however it committed suicide off the top of my shelve upside down into both my humidifiers about a day after forming pins. The 8 that I didn't cold shock took about 3 times as long but at looking ok now. I'll go grab some pics actually of my nicely overlaid casings and some GT's I harvested off of the first 6 of the 8 (not as bad overlaid but bad pinset's on all of them).


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

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