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 newuser1492
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
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 Green and Socialist 
#3211514 - 10/03/04 09:36 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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After using the political compass a few times and reading party standings on vote-smart.org I noticed something.
The Green Party and Socialist Party have damn close ideoligies. Am I right in so thinking?
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Anonymous
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Re: Green and Socialist [Re: newuser1492]
#3211555 - 10/03/04 09:45 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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the green party's platform is socialism with a few extra bells and whistles.
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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Re: Green and Socialist [Re: ]
#3211577 - 10/03/04 09:48 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushmaster said:
the green party's platform is socialism with a few extra bells and whistles.
Indeed. I'd say those bells and whistles mainly involve the environment(Socialist countries have historically had an abysmal environmental record).
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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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newuser1492
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
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Re: Green and Socialist [Re: newuser1492]
#3211629 - 10/03/04 09:57 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Just as a note I placed well with in the left lower portin of the political compass. I will most likely be voting for Cobb since the Socialist party in this country has no chance of ever being even recognized.
I'll tell you what I'd like to see even though it's physically impossible. I'd like to see a debate with Guevara and Bush.
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AntiMeme
yankee doodledandy
Registered: 08/11/04
Posts: 208
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Re: Green and Socialist [Re: silversoul7]
#3212862 - 10/04/04 06:50 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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It's so funny hearing Americans talking about 'socialism'. You obviously don't have a clue to it's meaning other than 'some bad shit closely related to communism'. But I guess that means you passed 'Social Studies'.
So, silversoul, what socialist countries have had abysmal environmental records? The SU?
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Anonymous
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Re: Green and Socialist [Re: AntiMeme]
#3213061 - 10/04/04 09:01 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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But I guess that means you passed 'Social Studies'.
in my high school we were taught that socialism was a great idea and a goal to work towards. i'm not kidding.
So, silversoul, what socialist countries have had abysmal environmental records? The SU?
china, cuba, north korea, poland, romania, etc. etc.
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: Green and Socialist [Re: ]
#3213222 - 10/04/04 10:07 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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china, cuba, north korea, poland, romania
No, he said socialist not dictatorships. The UK, France and Germany are an awful lot closer to socialist democracy than North Korea.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Evolving
Resident Cynic
Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
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Re: Green and Socialist [Re: Xlea321]
#3213341 - 10/04/04 10:56 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Those countries are/were socialist.
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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.' Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence. Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains. Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.
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AntiMeme
yankee doodledandy
Registered: 08/11/04
Posts: 208
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Re: Green and Socialist [Re: Evolving]
#3213442 - 10/04/04 11:33 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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If socialism == communism, then I guess that's right. Things are much easier if you make them easier. Let's not bicker over words.
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Evolving
Resident Cynic
Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
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Re: Green and Socialist [Re: AntiMeme]
#3213486 - 10/04/04 11:43 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.' Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence. Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains. Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.
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AntiMeme
yankee doodledandy
Registered: 08/11/04
Posts: 208
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Re: Green and Socialist [Re: Evolving]
#3213525 - 10/04/04 11:53 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yes. For example " An economic system that stresses the varying degrees of government ownership and redistribution of wealth" or "Philosophical approach to government that allows for public ownership of businesses".
But again, let's not bicker over words. Just keep in mind that most of you yanks are taught "Better dead than red" and not "Socialism is.." or "Communism is..".
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Evolving
Resident Cynic
Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
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Re: Green and Socialist [Re: AntiMeme]
#3213542 - 10/04/04 11:59 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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WTF are you rambling about? Mushmaster listed socialist countries with abysmal environmental records. He was correct, case closed.
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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.' Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence. Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains. Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.
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AntiMeme
yankee doodledandy
Registered: 08/11/04
Posts: 208
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Re: Green and Socialist [Re: newuser1492]
#3213715 - 10/04/04 12:34 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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He listed communist countries. Socialism is a broad label which encompasses both communism and social democracy as well as several other ideologies. Socialist countries != communist countries.
But I conceed. Let's use your definition. Everything is much easier when you ignore the subtleties.
Oh, and the thread started by discussing socialism, so my bad.
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
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Re: Green and Socialist [Re: AntiMeme]
#3213741 - 10/04/04 12:42 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
But I conceed. Let's use your definition. Everything is much easier when you ignore the subtleties.
You're starting to sound like Doctor J. Please enlighten use backwoods folk to the meaning of socialism and communism. Lord knows us Americans aren't as smart as other nations citizens.... 
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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AntiMeme
yankee doodledandy
Registered: 08/11/04
Posts: 208
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Re: Green and Socialist [Re: newuser1492]
#3213761 - 10/04/04 12:47 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Lord knows us Americans aren't as smart as other nations citizens....
I've always believed that was just an anti-American slur, but I'm now starting to wonder...
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
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Re: Green and Socialist [Re: AntiMeme]
#3213777 - 10/04/04 12:53 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm waiting for your definition oh wise one.
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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AntiMeme
yankee doodledandy
Registered: 08/11/04
Posts: 208
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Re: Green and Socialist [Re: newuser1492]
#3213814 - 10/04/04 12:59 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hm? I just pointed out the difference between socialism, communism and socialist nations, didn't I?
To humour y'all and find common ground; Kill a commie for mommie!
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Evolving
Resident Cynic
Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
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Re: Green and Socialist [Re: AntiMeme]
#3213824 - 10/04/04 01:01 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
AntiMeme said:
Socialism is a broad label which encompasses both communism and social democracy as well as several other ideologies. Socialist countries != communist countries
Do you fail to see the contradiction in your own statements? Communist countries are in fact socialist countries, since communism falls under the broader definition of socialism. It has also been pointed out numerous times by apologists for the fuck ups of marxism that there never have been any true communist countries, that they were all various varieties of socialist countries in transition to pure communism. So either way, these countries were socialist.
Quote:
Let's use your definition.
It's not my defintion, it's the generally accepted definition, hence the link.
Quote:
Everything is much easier when you ignore the subtleties.
No, it's not about ignoring subleties, it's about using generally accepted terms in the manner which will communicate your point.
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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.' Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence. Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains. Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.
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AntiMeme
yankee doodledandy
Registered: 08/11/04
Posts: 208
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Re: Green and Socialist [Re: newuser1492]
#3213847 - 10/04/04 01:06 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Chill out dude. I already conceeded, didn't I?
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: Green and Socialist [Re: Innvertigo]
#3213859 - 10/04/04 01:08 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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The US under the New Deal was more truer to socialist democracy than Stalins Russia. Certainly the UK, France and Germany are all better examples of socialist democracies than Russia and North Korea.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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