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 Champion des Champignons
long standing member;)
Registered: 07/26/00
Posts: 2,680
Loc: Alba
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 mexicana won't pin 
#321105 - 05/19/01 05:55 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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I cased 2 pint jars of colonised rye 2 weeks ago, 1 straight rye, 1 mixed in with my nice manure. The casing layer has been fully infiltrated and is getting close to overlaying, but no sign of pins. I've coldshocked twice, plenty of light and fanning, yet still no sign of pins. Am I missing some vital step or just being impatient?
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Old Donkeys don't die, they go to:
Drool Donkey Island
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hmmm........
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Anonymous
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Might be a non-fruiting strain. Getting plenty of sclerotia though?
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Anonymous
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the best advice I can give you is to check AtomHearts Mexicana page if you haven't already.
http://www.igosky.com/mexicana
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Champion des Champignons
long standing member;)
Registered: 07/26/00
Posts: 2,680
Loc: Alba
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 Re: mexicana won't pin [Re: ]
#321181 - 05/19/01 07:27 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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No sign of sclerotia yet. It was a multispore innoculation, so I don't think it being a sterile strain is likely. Looks like the only thing to do is fan even more.
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Old Donkeys don't die, they go to:
Drool Donkey Island
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hmmm........
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Champion des Champignons
long standing member;)
Registered: 07/26/00
Posts: 2,680
Loc: Alba
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Hmm, this turned up in my inbox, but there's no sign of it here. I wonder why?
holographic mind replied to your post at the site: .
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=Forum4&Number=321165
I have never read or heard of rye being used as a fruiting substrate for mexicana and mexicana is a grass land species it does not grow on manure. You messed up. Also cold shocking does nothing for such species as psilocybe mexicanan and Psilocybe cubensis. In no literature have a i ever read of cold shocking being used on such species of mushroom. Cold shocking is for temperature species. When was the last time it got cold in mexico, during the ice age maybe?
Wuss.
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Old Donkeys don't die, they go to:
Drool Donkey Island
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hmmm........
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Anonymous
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First things first, ignore Holographic. These things grow at high altitudes, and it does get cold. Cold shocking isn't your problem though. Are you trying rye grain or rye grass seed? They grow on rye grass seed, though rye grain probably works too, it did for tampanensis and Pan. cyanescens.
My concern is that it did not produce sclerotia in the casing layer. All of the strains I have grown out at least do this!!!! Maybe you got a false mating going on in those casings. I have three that have not pinned yet, two are three weeks old already, but these are throwing up massive amounts of sclerotia. The strains I selected were ones that produced sclerotia on agar, so I don't know if they are gonna pin or not. But you should get either pins or sclerotia, a combination of both, or nothing at all. If it is the last, which a week or so more will tell, your strains were false matings and are false dikaryons. But time will tell. Just keep them at a constant temp. below 78 degrees Far. keep the humidity up and mist accordingly. AtomHeart said they dislike CO2, but UNA grew them without all the "fanning". Hope they pin soon, or at least throw up some sclerotia. I wish you luck, and I wish myself luck to.
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Champion des Champignons
long standing member;)
Registered: 07/26/00
Posts: 2,680
Loc: Alba
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 Re: mexicana won't pin [Re: ]
#321223 - 05/19/01 08:27 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Heh, don't worry, I knew holo was talking crap. He obviously realised this too, and deleted his post before anyone read it......except me:) I was just trying to embarrass him. I am so wicked:D
Workman says on the Sporeworks site:
"Substrate: Rye grass seed, rye grain, millet and wheat straw"
So I'm not worried about the substrate either. But misting.........? Ahhh. That's something I never do, seems to beat down the mycelium and make it grow slower, also I worry about getting the casing too wet and inviting ccontams. Maybe I should change my ways. ?
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Old Donkeys don't die, they go to:
Drool Donkey Island
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hmmm........
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 B.I.O.
old hand
 
Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 458
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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i crumbled my full grown through spawn (rye-grasseed) from the jars into trays...i used a sterile fork...then i covered and let recover for 48 hours....then i cased with peat/lime/oystershell...
i hafe now a few well-sized sclerotia in the casing...if there is sucsess with fruiting, i will post pics...
good luck for all others ....
BiO.
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Workman
1999 Spore War Veteran
Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 3,603
Loc: Oregon, USA
Last seen: 14 hours, 8 minutes
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Re: mexicana won't pin [Re: B.I.O.]
#321507 - 05/20/01 09:49 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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It is hard to say what the problem is but I first see pins at 2 weeks. Maybe it is just a bit too early. If your casing is drying at all, definately mist. Good luck.
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Champion des Champignons
long standing member;)
Registered: 07/26/00
Posts: 2,680
Loc: Alba
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Re: mexicana won't pin [Re: Workman]
#321829 - 05/20/01 05:02 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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It doesn't look dry, but I gave it a mist anyway.
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Old Donkeys don't die, they go to:
Drool Donkey Island
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hmmm........
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anima
dusty shelf
Registered: 04/30/01
Posts: 116
Loc: WAY out there.
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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from what I've read you should keep the humidity up(at least 97%), and the Co2 down for pinning and fruitbody production. It sounds like you have a problem with the latter (overlay) to fix this (if its not too bad already) just sprinkle on a little more casing (if its bad overlay you may want to scratch the surface w/ a fork) and focus on your air exchange. Either more fanning and misting, or you could add some sort of air exchange, such as a fish tank air pump hooked up to a bubbler type thing. I have had no success with germination on the old BRF & verm or millet...I guess its off to find some Rye grass seed for me.
I was here but now I'm not, I have gone to smoke some pot. Left this here to make a point, if you wanna get high all it takes is a joint
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It might be the early bird that gets the worm. But its the second mouse that gets the cheese
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holographic mind
veteran
Registered: 11/21/00
Posts: 387
Last seen: 22 years, 2 months
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im so embarrased... :rolleyes:
I deleted it initially because I didn't weant anything to do with this thread and I still don't. Your problem is substrate, rye grain is not a good fruiting substrate for mexicana and manure has no place in the cultivation of mexicana.
Teonan Psilocybe mexicana grows in mountainous regions, but it does not grow in the cold. You are so full of crap claiming you have grown mexicana and tampa. You haven't even grown cubensis. Cold shocking does nothing for such species.
Edited by holographic mind on 05/20/01 08:59 PM.
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holographic mind
veteran
Registered: 11/21/00
Posts: 387
Last seen: 22 years, 2 months
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Re: mexicana won't pin [Re: anima]
#321922 - 05/20/01 07:04 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Congradulations you have read "TMC" we are all proud, so has CdesC you are not telling him anything he doesn't already know. Everyone is full of shit in my eyes, maybe you should try germinating spores on agar then inoculating millet.
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Champion des Champignons
long standing member;)
Registered: 07/26/00
Posts: 2,680
Loc: Alba
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 Re: mexicana won't pin [Re: anima]
#321997 - 05/20/01 08:39 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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In reply to:
shit in my eyes
I'd love to Sean.;)
We'll see if manure is no good for mexicana soon enough hopefully.
I'll post some pics with a little addition to prove I've not just stolen someone else's pics, like some sort of wannabe poser retard. Wait and see....:)
Ralph, if Sean post anymore crap on this thread lock it. I hate to see flames on adv cult.
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Old Donkeys don't die, they go to:
Drool Donkey Island
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hmmm........
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Workman
1999 Spore War Veteran
Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 3,603
Loc: Oregon, USA
Last seen: 14 hours, 8 minutes
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Re: mexicana won't pin [Re: anima]
#322087 - 05/20/01 10:48 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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anima: You shouldn't be having any problems with germination on those substrates. Could you go into any details about what you are doing? Are you using a syringe or a print, substrate preparation, temps, etc? Feedback is helpful. You may want to drop either me or Psilocyber an email regarding your attempts as well. We want you to succeed (err, you too Champion ;-) )
The Spore Works
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mjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
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Mine are in a terarium and also not pinning. Of course it has been onlyt one week but the mycelium is not spreading very fast.
Mine are also on ryeberry seed and there is alittle white around each see but it is not spreading the way my cubies just did (Pictures forthcoming).
Anyway I wilkl keep in touch as tot he status of my P. mexicana.
Mj
I would like to mention I am going to Mexico this summer to collect sporeprints for P. mexicana from the wild. I will be with some shaman friends of Dr. Gaston Guzman and will be able to get hundreds if not thousands of prints of this species.
Which rarely leave sporesrints when grown indoors.
mj
Have a shroomy day and may all of your days be shroomy.
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solidstate
journeyman
Registered: 04/08/00
Posts: 56
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Re: mexicana won't pin [Re: mjshroomer]
#322341 - 05/21/01 10:28 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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MJ, thats great news, been waiting to hear something like that for a long time...dont limit yourself strictly to mexicana, lots of interesting species down there as of course you know...keep us updated & have a shroomy expedition...as for the mexicana, a friend has some grass seed casings that are a little over 2 weeks old, no pins, little sign of sclerotia, starting to massively overlay...but hes working w/ isolated strains, so all bets are off...looks like hes setting up the old drawing board AGAIN, lol...his one piece of advice is to definately case deeper than 1/4", evidently mexicana loves to overlay
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Anonymous
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Re: mexicana won't pin [Re: solidstate]
#322477 - 05/21/01 01:58 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Solidstate if overlay is the problem, how would adding more casing help this. Overlay is a result of the mycelium starving for oxygen, adding more casing would limit oxygen even more, right?
None of my casings of mexicana have pinned either, all show surface growth, mild overlay, but they are producing large sclerotia. They start as early as one week after casing. My concern for me is that my cultures I selected for casing were intended to produce sclerotia. They were cultures that did this invitro on agar. So maybe mine won't pin. I really think these prints have alot of variability to them. I don't think all of them fruit, produce sclerotia, or do both. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for everyone. At least I will have a shit load of sclerotia, which was my intention with this species anyway. But it sure would be nice to see a few fruits too.
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Champion des Champignons
long standing member;)
Registered: 07/26/00
Posts: 2,680
Loc: Alba
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 Re: mexicana won't pin [Re: ]
#322646 - 05/21/01 05:12 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Heehee! What I thought was a rye grain not properly covered by casing has turned out to be a sclerotium! Not sure how big it is cos it would be a bit silly to dig it out just to measure it, but what I can see of it is~10mm across. So now I know I've not got a sterile strain. Phew:)
btw, this is the plain rye casing.
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Old Donkeys don't die, they go to:
Drool Donkey IslandEdited by Champion des Champignons on 05/21/01 08:57 PM.
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hmmm........
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Anonymous
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Congrats!!!!!! Let them grow. Well if you get no pins, your effort will be rewarded. I certainly will not be sorry if these casings only produce sclerotia.
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Champion des Champignons
long standing member;)
Registered: 07/26/00
Posts: 2,680
Loc: Alba
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Re: mexicana won't pin [Re: ]
#322822 - 05/21/01 08:25 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Thanks Teonan. I've never grow a sclerotium forming species before. I'm all excited!:D I was really just growing them for the fruits, and maybe prints if I'm lucky.
Is a sclerotium from a casing suitable for cloning, or will compost and shit stuck to it make it too prone to contams?
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Old Donkeys don't die, they go to:
Drool Donkey Island
--------------------
---------------------------------------------------
hmmm........
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Anonymous
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Just clean them real good with water before drying. I think it is the best way to store a STRAIN long term. I wish all species grew sclerotia. Remember you can always surface sterilize them later before cloning.
Edited by Teonan on 05/21/01 10:39 PM.
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Triple_3
member
Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 99
Last seen: 22 years, 9 months
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Re: mexicana won't pin [Re: ]
#322840 - 05/21/01 08:46 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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is sclerotia produced best in jars
or in casings?
seems like it would be more sterile in jars, no mushies though...
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Anonymous
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Re: mexicana won't pin [Re: Triple_3]
#322870 - 05/21/01 09:12 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Both P. mexicana and P. tampanensis form sclerotia invitro on ryegrass seed or in casing layers. No one on this BBoard has had any success with Invitro production with P. mexicana. Apparently not all spore races of P. mexicana form invitro sclerotia. Paul Stametes described growing P. mexicana sclerotia invitro, but he was using a strain that was known to produce. The spore race in circulation from one of the vendors here, does not do this. But it does produce heavily in a casing layer. This same spore vendor has P. tampanensis, and this species does both. It produces heavily invitro on rye grass seed, in the casing layer, and it fruits.
To answer your question, as of now, only the tampanensis produce invitro on ryegrass seed. But the mexicana produces exceptionally well in a casing layer.
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Workman
1999 Spore War Veteran
Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 3,603
Loc: Oregon, USA
Last seen: 14 hours, 8 minutes
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Re: mexicana won't pin [Re: ]
#322957 - 05/21/01 10:59 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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I think that is about to change. A new strain from a different collection has proven to be a superior invitro sclerotia producer. Well its not really new, I just didn't do as much initial work with it because it fruited so poorly. I guess you can blame it on SVS (Spore Vendor Syndrome), the tendency to select strains for their superior spore production at the expense of other more desirable traits.
For now I am calling it strain "A". There are pictures of it fruiting in the gallery and those large sclerotia in my hand are strain "A". I'll try to squeeze out a few syringes in a couple of weeks. If you are planning on growing the mexicana for invitro sclerotia, it might be worth the wait. I will make the distinction clear on the Spore Works site between the two strains when they are available. For now strain "B" fruits nicely or gives you casing sclerotia if your grow chamber isn't to its liking. Invitro production for strain "B" is typically rapid initially then soon stalls with sclerotia around rice grain sized.
The Spore Works
Exotic Spore Supply
--------------------
Research funded by the patrons of
The Spore Works
Exotic Spore Supply
My Instagram
Reinvesting 25% of Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification
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Triple_3
member
Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 99
Last seen: 22 years, 9 months
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Re: mexicana won't pin [Re: Workman]
#322992 - 05/21/01 11:49 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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thanx
can't wait...
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solidstate
journeyman
Registered: 04/08/00
Posts: 56
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Re: mexicana won't pin [Re: Triple_3]
#323200 - 05/22/01 10:01 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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hmmm...friend said he was fanning 4x per day, misting 2-3x per day, around 75f, 4-8 hrs light per day (long involved story)...this has worked fine for his pan & cubensis experiments, what should he change to favor mexicana pin initiation? last I heard, he was now seeing a bunch of sclerotia on several strains but no pins...btw looking forward to the A strain Workman
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Workman
1999 Spore War Veteran
Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 3,603
Loc: Oregon, USA
Last seen: 14 hours, 8 minutes
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Re: mexicana won't pin [Re: solidstate]
#323227 - 05/22/01 10:32 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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That sounds like it should work. But sclerotia formation in the casing either means it is a poor fruiting strain or the conditions are not quite right and the mycelium is experiencing stress. It is kinda cool that even if conditions are not ideal you can still get a harvest of sorts. How long has your friend been waiting so far?
The Spore Works
Exotic Spore Supply
--------------------
Research funded by the patrons of
The Spore Works
Exotic Spore Supply
My Instagram
Reinvesting 25% of Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification
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Anonymous
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Re: mexicana won't pin [Re: Workman]
#323770 - 05/22/01 09:35 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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I think it's genetics not environment.
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solidstate
journeyman
Registered: 04/08/00
Posts: 56
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Re: mexicana won't pin [Re: ]
#324098 - 05/23/01 10:18 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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day 17, we are not alone...impatience is the workshop of the devil...friend reports that out of 8 isolated strains, some have produced a small number of large sclerotia, others a large amount of small sclerotia, and one a fair number of pins...lots of variability w/ this species...perhaps the lack of light slowed things down a bit
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Champion des Champignons
long standing member;)
Registered: 07/26/00
Posts: 2,680
Loc: Alba
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Re: mexicana won't pin [Re: solidstate]
#327578 - 05/28/01 01:27 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Still no pins, but the spawned manure is producing plenty of fat sclerotia. What's the best way to go about cloning a good sclerotium producing strain? Agar I suppose?
------------------------------------
Old Donkeys don't die, they go to:
Drool Donkey Island
--------------------
---------------------------------------------------
hmmm........
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paddoholland
addict
Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 317
Loc: the Netherlands
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You must have a mexicana strain wich is grown from cloned sclerotia. When cloned several times (I heard) they won't form shrooms anymore.
I suggest you order a mexicana print from mush mush!!
Grow the spores from the print and you will have mexicana shrooms!!
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 First home-grown big mamma.
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Champion des Champignons
long standing member;)
Registered: 07/26/00
Posts: 2,680
Loc: Alba
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Re: mexicana won't pin [Re: paddoholland]
#328121 - 05/28/01 06:32 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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In reply to:
You must have a mexicana strain wich is grown from cloned sclerotia.
I don't think so, it's Sporeworks "B" strain, which seems to produce fruit well enough. I'm obviously doing something wrong, though I can't work out what it is. Patience........
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Old Donkeys don't die, they go to:
Drool Donkey Island
--------------------
---------------------------------------------------
hmmm........
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paddoholland
addict
Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 317
Loc: the Netherlands
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Okay, your right, someone expert should know it!
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First home-grown big mamma.
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Visit & Support Free Spore Ring Europe
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Una
controlleddemolition
Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 970
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In my opinion your substrate is the problem. We never had any fruiting problems on grass seed (and boy can those mexicana fruit abundantly!. Other grains such as rye, millet and birdseed didn't produce any mushrooms.
I suggest you try the whole thing again with sterilised grass seed as a substrate.
check this post for some nice pics
Una
Need spores? We got spores!
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Anonymous
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Re: mexicana won't pin [Re: Una]
#329273 - 05/29/01 10:17 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Growing them on rye grass seed, but only have one casing with TWO large pins and a whole lot of sclerotia. The other two casings only have sclerotia so far.
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