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 HidingInPlainSight
 
Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 2,077
Loc: Oklahoma City , OK, USA 
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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 Entheogenic Plant Adoption 
#3208885 - 10/03/04 01:15 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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An Entheogenic Plant Adoption thread would be beneficial to those wanting to start their own ethnobotanical garden, or for those who are generous enough to give up a plant or two for a beginner to start their own...
Edited by HidingInPlainSight (10/03/04 01:29 AM)
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ChiefSS
Vote 4 Pedro
Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 80
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
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Ive got some Pedro cuttings i would trade for some P Torch cuttings.
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felixhigh
Scientist
Registered: 06/24/01
Posts: 7,565
Loc: Ly
Last seen: 4 days, 9 hours
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yes, why not plants if seeds are traded too?
FH
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 Lifenergy
Yo Mama
Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 766
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That is a splendid idea. I would be happy to contribute.
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Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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You mean a free plant thread like the free print and free seeds threads? That might work. What about national boundaries? It's a lot harder sending a live plant overseas than seeds. If I send someone a plant it usually has to be within usa because of the need for phytosanitary certificates and so on.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Hooty
Reality isRelative
Registered: 02/24/03
Posts: 2,467
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
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National boundaries would pose a problem in some cases.....though I think there would be much less of a problem if no soil was sent with the plants....
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Without love in the dream
It will never come true
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kadakuda
The Great"Green".......East
Registered: 05/21/04
Posts: 7,048
Loc: Asia
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Cactus are CITES, i doubt many are willing to pay, and many would be pissed if/when they get nabbed by the border nazi's.
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The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.
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HidingInPlainSight
Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 2,077
Loc: Oklahoma City , OK, USA
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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I would suggest something more structured than current free seeds threads.
I.E: Person with said plant makes a post giving their plant up for adoption. The creater if the post decides who gets it based on guidelines they set... (Requests for Plant via PM as one example)
Or a member on the board posting that he/she is looking for a certain plant, and then a person who has that plant sending them a PM about what they can do to adopt the plant.
^^^^
To keep that part of the system from getting too cluttered, we could encorporate some kind of post expiration on requests..
If you look at the results, 18 people have voted yes, while nobody voted no.
Edited by HidingInPlainSight (10/04/04 02:22 AM)
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kadakuda
The Great"Green".......East
Registered: 05/21/04
Posts: 7,048
Loc: Asia
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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i voted yes too, its a good thing to have. just be tons of grey areas that would need some deep thought and consideration.
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The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.
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HidingInPlainSight
Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 2,077
Loc: Oklahoma City , OK, USA
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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 Re: Entheogenic Plant Adoption [Re: kadakuda]
#3214132 - 10/04/04 02:03 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Kadakuda: I would love for you to help & pitch in ideas. We can make this work and be extremely helpful to the Ethno-community. Do you have AIM?? PM me with your screenname and we can discuss these grey areas and what we can do to prevent troubles.
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deff
just love everyone
Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 9,428
Loc: clarity 
Last seen: 1 hour, 17 minutes
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not to spam or nothing...
but www.ethnoseeds.com has a live plant trading section as well
 
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entheoindole
Seāð Wīdfarend
Registered: 04/04/04
Posts: 595
Loc: Eormensyll, Vīnland
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I think it's a great idea and would also be willing to contribute!
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HidingInPlainSight
Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 2,077
Loc: Oklahoma City , OK, USA
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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 Re: Entheogenic Plant Adoption [Re: entheoindole]
#3215573 - 10/04/04 07:40 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
entheoindole said:
I think it's a great idea and would also be willing to contribute!
 PM me.
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felixhigh
Scientist
Registered: 06/24/01
Posts: 7,565
Loc: Ly
Last seen: 4 days, 9 hours
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Re: Entheogenic Plant Adoption [Re: Hooty]
#3215691 - 10/04/04 08:04 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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i don't live in US, i think the thread could be worldwide, why not?
if the one whose picking the item takes the risk of having the plant seized by customs, which are tighter in some countries and looser in others...
a thought on sending plants and soil... of course the plant should not have any soil if possible (specially for INTL trades), at most some moist sphagnum if required...
FH
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neuro
Phytophiliac
Registered: 08/10/99
Posts: 6,633
Loc: Rigel 7
Last seen: 5 months, 1 day
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Quote:
its a good thing to have. just be tons of grey areas that would need some deep thought and consideration.
I too share these sentiments; this is why I haven't voted or posted yet. It seems like the thread could be prone to chaos and perhaps fights, rip-off artistss, perhaps law breaking, and more. Though trying to run some thought experiments on these scenarios has been a little hard, and I must admit I haven't had much time to devote to pondering the nuances of such a working thread. One thought that comes to mind almost immediately would be, would the thread be lasse-faire or require some maintenance?
Quote:
not to spam or nothing...
but www.ethnoseeds.com has a live plant trading section as well
If one already exists there, why not use it? Perhaps try to contribute to it or give it ideas. And help evolve that thread, policy-wise, quality-wise, and in ease of use. I'm sure deff, though i'm not putting words in his mouth, may be interested in some help.
Quote:
if the one whose picking the item takes the risk of having the plant seized by customs, which are tighter in some countries and looser in others...
Whose responsibility would it be to make sure one isn't violating the laws of another country? Both parties, moderator, or other? Would having a plant seized by coustoms technically constitute breaking a law? Would we want to technically condone that or maintenance that by sustaining such a thread?
Some ad hoc ideas.
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Alsius
Non-photo Blue
Registered: 07/21/04
Posts: 123
Last seen: 19 years, 26 days
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Re: Entheogenic Plant Adoption [Re: neuro]
#3216325 - 10/04/04 10:38 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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I am willing to give anyone who is interested in Rivea Corymbrosa cuttings a free one. PM if interested. Let's kick this off. Spread the love!
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felixhigh
Scientist
Registered: 06/24/01
Posts: 7,565
Loc: Ly
Last seen: 4 days, 9 hours
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Re: Entheogenic Plant Adoption [Re: neuro]
#3216404 - 10/04/04 10:55 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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responsabillity in case of illegal plant (which should be avoided of course) relies on the receiver only... (should, i believe).
i think this is a good rule. no illegal plants... but then again laws are different in many countries (_jurisdiction_ is a key word here) but i believe no one here would grow illegal plants...
FH
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kadakuda
The Great"Green".......East
Registered: 05/21/04
Posts: 7,048
Loc: Asia
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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i dont think whether the plant is illegal or not is teh real issue. the problem to me is that NO plant/animal can legally cross a border without paperwork. im willing to bet not many, if any, are willing to do so making all plant trades technically illegal. i would personalyl just rather wing it and send 3 day reg mail and hope for the best. the idea of trading to me is to save money, but once you need to pay for paperwork and possibly inspections it is no longer cheaper.
also it is, in the govs eyes, the responsibility of the sender to get all this shit taken care of. which means teh reciever is gonna have to send money to the person. many will have a problem with this. many will most liekly get ripped off. i think it could work, but it would be an honour system. i personally think it would have to be a pm bases to avoid any legal issues being linked to the shroomery.
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The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.
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neuro
Phytophiliac
Registered: 08/10/99
Posts: 6,633
Loc: Rigel 7
Last seen: 5 months, 1 day
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Re: Entheogenic Plant Adoption [Re: kadakuda]
#3217528 - 10/05/04 09:09 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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>>be a pm bases to avoid any legal issues being linked to the shroomery.
Which can be done at any time, especially in the marketplace or on deff's site.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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I'd say rather than a thread like the free seed thread, just have individual plants offered for trade. The two parties would then be responsible for working out issues. The way it is now with seeds, you have no choice over who takes your seeds and you have to send them to whoever. Although, someone set a precedent by turning down a newbie in the seed thread recently. That's another problem, with newbies you are taking a chance.
If someone sent their end and didn't receive a plant for whatever reason, they will be pissed and likely to give a bad rating no matter if it was customs or not. Many plants can't survive a long journey and even in usa might need priority mail. International mail usually takes a couple weeks or longer for a package. Letters go fast but it took over 7 weeks for me to get a plant from africa one time. It was a cactus and survived but most plants will not live that long in a box. Small plants and cuttings can be sent first class and go fairly fast.
One possible solution is to have a thread for usa, one for europe and perhaps other threads for other areas. That would eliminate the need for paperwork and shorten the journey considerably. It seems like it's either that or make it all one on one where they both have to agree to the details. What about the newbie factor? Someone with no rating and few posts is a risk. Should the person sending be allowed to approve or disapprove of who takes his item? If a newbie takes an item and you know you will have to spend some money sending a plant, you are not going to want to take a chance on the newbie sending to you. When it's seeds, you are out just a stamp and some seeds. With a plant you are out a lot more. Requiring at least one trade feedback would be a solution but when I suggested it before, a few said it was a good idea but it never got off the ground. Otherwise, the thread will just end when a newbie is the last person.
Stoney
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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deff
just love everyone
Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 9,428
Loc: clarity
Last seen: 1 hour, 17 minutes
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Neuro's right, that anyone who wants to help in anyway with the ethnoseeds project is more than welcome, and in fact very appreciated.
I've been working on a site design that's been taking up a lot of my free time, so I haven't had a lot of time to monitor the forums, post a lot, and try to populate the place.
If anyone is interested in helping in anyway (even being a moderator  ) then pm me. I'm verrry open to all suggestions and ideas too, as this project is intended to be 100% community based
take care,
deff
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walterbrinkley
Stranger
Registered: 10/07/04
Posts: 1
Last seen: 19 years, 5 months
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Re: Entheogenic Plant Adoption [Re: deff]
#3228713 - 10/07/04 03:33 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think it's a crappy idea. I voted no. PM me ledzepln86 with the answer to this question: why? What if we get caught? can't we get in trouble? Wouldn't it be easier to grow our own?
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kadakuda
The Great"Green".......East
Registered: 05/21/04
Posts: 7,048
Loc: Asia
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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the idea is to grow your own. its trading plants. almost all ethnos are legal worldwide. only a few are illegal to own and posses. peyote in the states, pot in most places, and i think salvia in australia is too? think there is a couple others that im not 100% on. ephedra i think is ok fo rthe plant but not purified, and i cant remember what the deal is with khat.
but ya most are just as legal as a rose bush, its not the ethno use that makes this a bitch its the fact it is a plant and crossing a border. we would have the same problems if we wanted to ship tree plugs, or petunias or whatever. the only other thing on top of those are cacti require cites documents for international trade. and i think there are state specific laws regarding agriculture. like in cali. but i am not 100%.
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The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.
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neuro
Phytophiliac
Registered: 08/10/99
Posts: 6,633
Loc: Rigel 7
Last seen: 5 months, 1 day
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Re: Entheogenic Plant Adoption [Re: kadakuda]
#3230709 - 10/07/04 09:29 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah some states, Georgia and California have no spore laws not beacuse of the same reasons as Ohio but because they don't want to risk contamination. If you've ever driven into Cali the boarder guy says "you got any fruit in the car?" my normal response is, "just my brother."
Anyway, i still think this would be a better thing to hold on Deff's site since he's already tried to get this off the ground. I think we're running a fine line with this site as the way it is, and a trackable record in public of what we're sending, and most often won't receive isn't a good idea in my opinion. I think the logistics are just too great. Customs, allowing Non-us customers or not, the rip off factor, illegal vs non illegal items stuff like that. As much as I'd like to do it here, i just really forsee too many headaches with it.
But that's just my opinion.
Also regarding that precident thing...i'll post in another thread about that.
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