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OfflineSpiritualAtheist
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Registered: 09/28/04
Posts: 25
Loc: Washington State
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
FIrst Hunt ever - descriptions and pics
    #3206819 - 10/02/04 03:13 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

(Looking for help with identification of samples below. Sample one are possibly cubensis but need help!)

I went on my first shroom hunt ever two days ago. Chose a river plain with mixed tree patches and field here in Thurston county, Washington state. PM me if you want details. Walked about a mile. Came back with alot of pictures and specimens of about 11-12 different species.

My approach was to not and try to identify the species in the field nor worry about whether they were active or not. Rather I just took notes on location and field photographs, and then took samples to analyse later. Yes, I'm interested in actives, but I also figure I am more likely to gain better rounded knowledge by looking at many types.

I have put together my own standard list of id criteria which I am using below. I filled in as much observational data as I could. I'm still trying to learn the lingo. I have tried to bring as much to the table as I could before asking for identification help.

I've posted three of the species below. First observational data and then pictures. Any input on the data (organisation or accuracy in terminology) is greatly appreciated. I tried to put ? marks where I was unsure of nomenclature or accuracy of my observation.

I am using one id book (Mushrooms of Northwest North America, by Helene M.E. Schallwijk-Barendsen) This book uses color hand drawings for picture ident much in the tradition of the Roger Tory Peterson bird ident books. I don't see many actives listed in this book and I think that was probably on purpose, although I can't find any mention of omission in the text. Its a library book, so the pages could have been kiped too, like some other tomes I found in the library. Shame.

This is my first shot at this, so please don't assume I know anything at all :smile:

And by the way, the hunt was a lot of fun, in and of itself. Haven't crawled around on my hands and knees that much since I was a kid....

Three species follow:
---------------------------------------------------

Sample 1

Date: 9/31/2004
Location: River Plain, underneath fir tree in pine needles

Gills:
-Type: Close with ?intermediates? (some gills do not appear to travel fully between rim of cap and stalk)
-Color: off white

Cap:
-Dimensions: 3-4 cm diameter
-Shape: Conical?
-Color: light orangeish brown.
-Note: Sticky at harvest.

Stalk:
-Dimensions: 0.75 - 2.0 cm diameter, up to 8-11 cm tall.
-Shape: tapering up
-Consturction: fibrous
-Color: off white same as gills

Ring/Annulus: Superior. Veil was present when harvested but had broken within an hour or so.

Smell: None

Other: Shape of the cap was much more rounded at time of harvesting (see field pic), over 48 hours they have now become very flat.Both specimens were found all by themselves under different trees.

Picture Notes: Taken at 24 hours after harvest, excepting field pics. The only field pic included here is blurry, but provided to show shape of cap at harvest. I have a better captivity pic to of the caps but I ran out of space.

Possible Idents: I can't find a match in the field guide I am using.  Could these possibly be young cubes?




----------------------------------------------------------------
Sample 2

Date: 9/31/2004
Location: River Plain, under deciduous tree, in moss

Gills:
-Type: Close
-Color: white in younger specimens, muddy brown in mature (Note I am making an assumption that these are not separate species based on the fact that these were all found in the same patch, and other marked similarities. This is a rookies analysis however)

Cap:
-Dimensions: 1.0 - 3.0 cm diameter varying with age.
-Shape: Cone shaped when young, knobbed when mature
-Color: White


Stalk:
-Dimensions: 0.3 - 0.75 cm diameter, up to 6-7 cm tall. 
-Shape: equal.
-Construction: Fibrous
-Color: white same as cap.

Ring/Annulus: There is a cobwebby veil (cortina?) in young specimens connecting the cap rim tot he stalk. Older specs don't show any rings however. Veil connection is where a superior ring would be

Smell: very slight off-radish

Other:

Picture Notes: non-field pics at 24 hours

Possible Idents:
Unknown, cannot find a match
Little white Inocybe (Inocybe geophylla) is a close match in shapes and is also noted for the gill color differrence from youth to mature HOWEVER size is all wrong here, these specimens are consistently bigger in all dimensions.





----------------------------------------------------------------
Sample 3

Date: 9/31/2004
Location: River Plain, found in grass in field near tress but not under.

Gills:
-Type: Close, possible ?intermediates? (some gills appear to not connect fully between lip of cap and stalk).
-Color: Biege in color with some purple-brown ?bruising? near edges.

Cap:
-Dimensions: 7-10 cm in diameter.
-Shape: Rounded, relatively flat.
-Color: Very light purple brown almost grey color. Darker conectric circles radiate from center of cap outward

Stalk:
-Dimensions: 2 cm diameter, 4-5 cm tall.
-Shape: equal
-Construction: fibrous with very small (roughly 2mm) hollow running through center.
-Color:  biege and same as gills.

Ring/Annulus: None

Smell: super light sweet smell, almost none

Other: Very hardy and rugged, handles well.

Picture Notes:

Possible Idents: Stymied again, cannot find a match in field guide.







Be Well!


--------------------
Wonder and awe at the universe is a product of observation and analysis. Fear and uncertainty a product of relying on comfortable beliefs.


Edited by SpiritualAtheist (10/02/04 09:24 PM)


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OfflineSpiritualAtheist
Neophyte

Registered: 09/28/04
Posts: 25
Loc: Washington State
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
Re: First Hunt ever - descriptions and pics [Re: SpiritualAtheist]
    #3207171 - 10/02/04 05:48 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Just a note: I just edited my post above to correct some terminology. I was using the term "distant" to describe all three samples gill structures. They were actually "close". I mistakenly thaough distant referred to how far the gills travelled radially out from the stalk or in from the edge of cap. Whoops ;(

I also just started some spore prints, should have that info later tonight or tomorrow.

BTW I found this cool link that was very helpful in classification of macro details. Much info for noobs like me


--------------------
Wonder and awe at the universe is a product of observation and analysis. Fear and uncertainty a product of relying on comfortable beliefs.


Edited by SpiritualAtheist (10/02/04 05:50 PM)


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OfflineToxicManM
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Re: FIrst Hunt ever - descriptions and pics [Re: SpiritualAtheist]
    #3207926 - 10/02/04 09:45 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

On the first one, the third photo shows a bit of striate margin at the edge of the cap. The gills appear free. Overall, I suspect that they are Amanitas. Unfortunately you didn't get the base of the stem when you picked them. When picking possible Amanitas it's very important to get the entire base of the stem, typically by digging down into the soil. Also be very careful to not damage any volva that may be on the base of the stem.

For the second ones, they look like Inocybes to me. If so, it is likely they will have a strong odor. Try taking the entire collection, cupping your hands around them, and sniffing them as a group to see if there's any odor. Most Inocybes are very difficult to identify accurately. They require a microscope for most species.

The third ones suggest Lactarius to me. Try breaking the stem on one with your fingers. Lactarius are not fibrous and will snap like a piece of chalk. Assuming Lactarius, purplish staining suggests they are in the group of species near Lactarius uvidus. All of the purple staining Latarius are suspected to be poisonous.

Nice photos and specimens.

Happy mushrooming!


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OfflineSpiritualAtheist
Neophyte

Registered: 09/28/04
Posts: 25
Loc: Washington State
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
Re: FIrst Hunt ever - descriptions and pics [Re: ToxicMan]
    #3208181 - 10/02/04 10:44 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

ToxicMan, thanks for the input and advice! If you don't mind I have questions regarding your observation which I'll address for each sample.

1. I will look up "striate margin" (caps) and "free" (gills) so I understand what you mean. Most Amanitas are poisonous, aren't they?
The drying stalk I'm using for a spore print sure looks like cubes I've seen dried before, so I'm al little disappointed, but oh well. If you have time can you tell me what is different between these possible Amanitas and P. cubensis --- they looked so close to me??
Lastly, how can I narrow down which Amanitas these are?

2. Inocybes, cool. Inocybes geophylla is the species that I listed in the Possible Idents section of my description notes above, but the dimensions listed in my book say the stalks are "up to 4 cm tall and 0.20 cm thick. These are quite larger (see dimensions in post) Also, I took the full harvest into my cupped hands and took a good waft -- still only a slight off-radish odour. These specimens now are about 60 hours harvested however, don't know if that makes a difference.

3. Snaps like chalk --- yup. When I went to examine stalk structure I remember the stalk broke exactly as you describe. Also as noted in original post there is a small hollow vein in the center, is this consistent? I will look up Lactarius species and see what I can find.

Thanks again! I know I'm asking a lot of questions, any info is appreciated.


--------------------
Wonder and awe at the universe is a product of observation and analysis. Fear and uncertainty a product of relying on comfortable beliefs.


Edited by SpiritualAtheist (10/02/04 10:50 PM)


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Offlineeris
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Registered: 11/18/98
Posts: 48,009
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Re: FIrst Hunt ever - descriptions and pics [Re: SpiritualAtheist]
    #3208245 - 10/02/04 10:58 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SpiritualAtheist said:
can you tell me what is different between these possible Amanitas and P. cubensis --- they looked so close to me??





Aminitas have white spore prints, free or nearly free gills, usually have reminants of a universal veil. "free gills" meaning that the gills are not attached to the stalk.

Cubensis will have purple-brownish spore prints, bruise blue, and grows on dung.


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OfflineToxicManM
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Re: FIrst Hunt ever - descriptions and pics [Re: SpiritualAtheist]
    #3208503 - 10/03/04 12:18 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Most Amanitas are poisonous, aren't they?



As with most mushrooms, most of them are unknown. Since Amanitas are the cause of the vast majority of fatal mushroom poisonings they are not good mushrooms to sample to find out if they are edible. When we find out about a new poisonous one it's usually because somebody mistook it for something else and was poisoned.

Quote:

how can I narrow down which Amanitas these are?



One of the more important parts for identifying Amanitas is the volva and base of the stem. Another thing to check is to see if the spores are amyloid (turn dark blue in Iodine) - for that it's much easier with a microscope. Other important features to note are bruising and odor.


Inocybe is one of the biggest genera of mushrooms. How many does your book show? There are something like 600 or so kinds, last I heard. Many of the features used to distinguish which kind you have are visible only with a microscope. For example, one of the first things you should know is if the spores are smooth and elliptical or nodulose.


Lactarius in general are often hollow stemmed. The group of species around Lactarius uvidus has a lot of members, so don't be too surprised if you can't be sure exactly which one you have.

Happy mushrooming!


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Offlinefreedomseeker
Crazy old lady!

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 219
Loc: Washington State
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: FIrst Hunt ever - descriptions and pics [Re: ToxicMan]
    #3208524 - 10/03/04 12:30 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

ToxicMan...How did you get so SMART????

I really have been wondering.  Do you teach?  I wish I had 1/4 of your knowledge base... or else your library! :smirk:

L


--------------------
"You must be the change you want to see in the world."
Mahatma Gandhi


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OfflineToxicManM
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Re: FIrst Hunt ever - descriptions and pics [Re: freedomseeker]
    #3209146 - 10/03/04 07:22 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Aw, shucks - you'll turn my head.

I've been hunting mushrooms for about 30 years. I read a lot. I hang around when I can with people who are smarter than I am - professional mycologists.

And besides, you don't really think I'm answering this stuff off the top of my head, do you? I have a stack of books here and I look stuff up so I can try not to say something stupid. It doesn't work all the time, but it helps.

Happy mushrooming!


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Offlinefreedomseeker
Crazy old lady!

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 219
Loc: Washington State
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: FIrst Hunt ever - descriptions and pics [Re: ToxicMan]
    #3209559 - 10/03/04 12:54 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

you don't really think I'm answering this stuff off the top of my head, do you? I have a stack of books here and I look stuff up




I figured that!  That's why I wanted either 1/4 of your brilliance OR your books!

30 years hunting.  Now THAT I do wish I had.  That must mean your parents started you mushrooming when you were still in diapers.  :rolleyes:  Pretty cool!

Smart people=good stuff!

L


--------------------
"You must be the change you want to see in the world."
Mahatma Gandhi


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Offlinecosmicsea
Stranger

Registered: 08/08/04
Posts: 226
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
Re: FIrst Hunt ever - descriptions and pics [Re: freedomseeker]
    #3209614 - 10/03/04 01:18 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Why no spore prints???


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OfflineToxicManM
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Re: FIrst Hunt ever - descriptions and pics [Re: freedomseeker]
    #3212422 - 10/04/04 03:10 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

That must mean your parents started you mushrooming when you were still in diapers.



Hardly. My parents have never had any interest in it. I took it up around when I graduated high school.

By far the best way to learn is to go out with people who already know it. Mycological societies will help you make connections with people who really know this stuff. They even have organized forays where local experts will help noobs find stuff and get started with identification. Check around for a local group. Most of them are always looking for new people who are interested in this stuff.

Happy mushrooming!


--------------------
Happy mushrooming!


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